DerekPaxton DerekPaxton

Go big, or go home

Go big, or go home

 

  So much fun stuff to talk about.  Let me start by owning up to a mistake that I made.

  In my faction differentiation thread I talked about adding new traits and abilities for pre-designed units.  When you asked if those were specific to various factions I said that they were open to anyone, because I wanted players designing their own units to have as many tools as possible.  Many people cautioned me against that, and you were right.

  I have been living in faction differentiation land and been doing a lot of work detailing exactly what each faction can and can't do.  Though I like a player's ability to customize his units, it has to be secondary to the differences between the factions if faction differentiation is to mean anything.  This became more important as we added more abilities to each faction.

  I always get excited when we start to talk about abilities that may be too powerful to balance.  Can Yithril start all the trained units off at 2nd level?  (yes, but they won't get access to ranged units).  Can Kulan have an ability that allows him to take control of enemy beasts in combat? (yes, but it has a range of 1 and a 2 turn casting time, you better be able to survive 2 turns of cave bear attacks if you want to capture one).

  We won't have all the new faction abilities in by the start of Beta 3.  But there will be enough that you all can start playing with them and providing feedback.  One of the ones we were focusing on last week was Magnar.  They can't build any growth improvements, no Inn, no Pub, no Brewery, etc.  But when they defeat men or fallen in combat (be they bandits or enemy armies) they add them as population to the nearest Magnar city.  And they keep the ability to take population from the cities they raze.  People aren't flooding out of the wilderness to join Mangar cities, they need a bit more proding.

  Magnar doesn't get any new weapon or armor.  But they have a new unit type they can design from.  If you go into the Unit Design screen you have Male and Female at the bottom.  Some factions have other options they can design on, for Magnar that’s slave units.

  Slaves don’t have any training cost and you don't have to pay them wages.  You still need to pay for the training time to make whatever weapons and armor you give them, and their stats aren't very impressive.  At some point you will want to use real Quendar units if you are already spending the time to craft valuable armor and weapons.  But for good cheap archers, warg riders and militia, slaves work great (and you can't beat 0 wages)

  We used to have the conscripts trait that was attempting to provide a similar benefit, but it didn't work as well.  Now there is a nice visual distinction between the larger Quendar units and the smaller slaves they are marshaling into battle.

  Magnar also gets access to unique spells.  Death Lash makes a unit dramatically more powerful, but then kills it at the end of battle.  Cull the Weak kills one of your own trained units but heals the caster and gives back some mana.  For Magnar their cheap slaves are fodder, have fun with them.

 

  Another piece of feedback that I took to heart was that a lot of the damage types and resistances were underutilized.  In general the differences between weapons and their impact on other armies or monsters didn't mean as much as I wanted.  I was being too subtle.  So I went through every monster and gave them dramatic strengths and weaknesses.  Trolls are all vulnerable to fire, Ice Elementals have no defense against blunt weapons.  Naja and Stalkers are immune to counter attacks.  Ogres all have bad spell resistance.  Nearly every monster has areas where it is weak, and areas where it is strong.

  The same thing has been done with armies.  Armor has been rebalanced and instead of being 50% more effective against certain damage types it is 100% more effective.  Abilities have been added to all weapons.  Swords all have counterattack.  All axes have backswing.  Spears still have armor piercing, but they also make the unit immune to counter attack.  Hammer type weapons don't have an ability but tend to be big, slow and do lots of damage to make up for it.

  What weapon you use matters.  And many of the factions have special versions that drive this even further.  Krax has one handed versions of the spears that they can use with shields.  Umber has scimitars that have backswing and counterattack.  Pariden has a staff that shoots lighting.  Yithril has a great axe that has armor piercing (it's devastating).

 

  Another example, races now give a bloodline trait.  Ironeer's get +6 to Spell Resistance and an additional Hit Point per level, but their tactical spells cost 50% more than normal.  This applies to trained units and any Ironeer champions you recruit (regardless of what race you are playing as).  It also applies to any custom sovereign you create that has Ironeer as their race.  All Pariden units get a minor boost depending on the amount of shards and the type of shards you control.  All Wraiths get -1 hit point per level, but they heal 3 hit points whenever they kill an opponent.

 

  We have a lot of faction differentiation work to do, but it is coming together nicely.  Now that the base game mechanics are there and working, we can have fun polishing and creating all the special stuff that makes it special.  Thanks again to all of you for providing feedback and I'm looking forward to more when Beta 3 releases.

 

244,584 views 70 replies
Reply #51 Top

Quoting Greyclouds40, reply 42
One concern over spears: if spears turn out to both pierce armor AND eliminate the bonuses affixed to other types of weapons, then what weapon counters spears? Will spears be extremely heavy (reduce movement) or have lower damage output? 

One drawback is that they require two hands (Kael's write-up mentions that Krax has one-handed versions, which implies everyone else gets two-handed versions).  That means no shields, which means no extra defense.  They'll be more vulnerable in general, and to ranged especially.

However, it seems to me that spears should have the sword special ability of always counterattacking.  When I think of an opponent wielding a long spear, I think of someone who's going to be difficult to get near without getting myself poked.  It seems to me that spears should be the weapons which always guarantee a counterattack.

 

Reply #53 Top

Quoting alphonse101elric, reply 50
"They can't build any growth improvements, no Inn, no Pub, no Brewery, etc.  But when they defeat men or fallen in combat (be they bandits or enemy armies) they add them as population to the nearest Magnar city."

Don't those improvements affect how much food your city produces and hence how much population you can support? Do the slaves just fend for themselves in that regard? Do the enslaved populace produce taxes or do they produce wealth for their masters via slave labor?

 

I think that any building that can affect food directly (aka bakery, granary, skath pit, etc) will not be removed ... that it will only be buildings that affect "Growth Only"

Maybe they will have a unique style of early palace (instead of the tower of dominion ... tower of Curgen?) that doesn't add growth but gives some other bonus instead.

 

I believe population will act normally, even if it was gained through "slaving".

Reply #55 Top

Yes. Perfect. Awesome. Dying to play beta 3.

Reply #56 Top

 

what if each weapon type offered like 3 different abilities, for instance hammers would get: chance to stun, sunder, & knockdown depending on which hammer you went with, one would end up with a large veriety to choose their playstyle from/setup there army with.  swords could have counterattack, bleeding, and double attack or whatnot & so on

Reply #57 Top

Finally they did get the message.The player base does not want half baked bland factions.I have hope.

Reply #58 Top

Quoting Ashbery76, reply 57
Finally they did get the message.The player base does not want half baked bland factions.I have hope.

Personally I don't care for racial differentiation, I would rather the dev's would focus on more spells, and "proper" tech lists, etc...
I don't wanna be stamped one of those guys that want something like that ^_^

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #59 Top

I really want to say that I prefer gameplay over eye-candy, but I think that the visual differentiation as well as the stat differences will make this game much more enjoyable.   

 

Looking forward to trying the new factions out.

Reply #60 Top

This would also require more AI work for Brad. Will each race have it's own AI, then?

Reply #61 Top

@Lord Reliant: As I understand it, a lot of them already do. Some are more aggressive, others more build-and-consolidate, and Krax will pay everybody to attack you. 

Reply #63 Top

Thank Allah for listening to player feedback and making factions/races different from one another. THANK YOU

Reply #64 Top

I love the differentiation, that's is for sure, but how will this translate to custom factions? We have to chose between the presets like in GalCiv, or we can choose bonuses and penalties that fit our faction better?

Like say, that 2nd level bonus, we can get that one, bu we have to balance it with some big penalty.

Reply #65 Top

Quoting Lord, reply 60
This would also require more AI work for Brad. Will each race have it's own AI, then?


First of all, Each AI should have (and probably does have) its own tweaks based on Race. For example, Magnar should be more likely to declare war on people then some of the more friendly sovreigns. 

 

Secondly, if well designed,  ALL AI players, regardless of factions need to know how all the game mechanics work. You should be able to put any custom faction in the hands of the AI and have its features being used properly.

 

So, it should be no extra work... this is stuff that needs to be done if a great game is to result. 

Reply #66 Top

Thanks for the hard work!  Looking forward to trying it out next week.

 

Cheers  :beer:

Reply #67 Top

Quoting alphonse101elric, reply 50
"They can't build any growth improvements, no Inn, no Pub, no Brewery, etc.  But when they defeat men or fallen in combat (be they bandits or enemy armies) they add them as population to the nearest Magnar city."

Don't those improvements affect how much food your city produces and hence how much population you can support? Do the slaves just fend for themselves in that regard? Do the enslaved populace produce taxes or do they produce wealth for their masters via slave labor? Will we have to lure enemies to our big cities to get the population boost needed? Or will large cities develop near high combat zones because of this feat? I am curious to see what kind of game play develops due to this kind of faction differentiation, though more interested to see if there are neat unanticipated play styles that develop due to changes.

I like what I see, go big or go home is the essence of epic fantasy in my opinion. As a recent convert to the vast realms of D&D, I find a lot of value in being able to role play in my games. I am the guy who will create a character and stick to decisions that strategically make no sense, but work great in the story in my head. I would really like to be able to take the characters we've known for so long and really go wild. Like some on here, I tend to be a screw balance, I'll do what I want kind of dude (which kills a lot of my D&D characters -- I'm the opposite of a minmax in a party of minmaxed out freaks of nature).

I don't know what plans there are for any multi-player yet, but that is one place I think this game could thrive. It has the necessary role play elements and mod tools for games to be hosted with all player-factions and less of a push to "win" and just enjoy the story. This is harder to do with the AI, especially because you can't really have a true organic diplomatic chat with them... yet. 

Anyway, I am rambling, but I would like to see more variation in classes too, for soldiers, champions, and sovereigns alike. Bards would be cool, while there are abilities that give army bonuses to combat, it's not that specialized. Druids are awesome (and broke) in D&D, being able to turn into a cave bear with the power of say an earth shard and a water (or two earth and a life, something like that).

That is all my rambling for now. Part of me would like to wait to just see the finished product and not get involved in this beta stuff, but it's addicting!

Log time D&D player here as well and a non-minmaxers. Sounds like we may have similar playing styles in D&D (3.5 FTW :)  My personal favorite classes are the Psionic classes and would love to see Psionics in FE however I know there will not be but hopfully I will be able to mod new books of magic (and call it psionic) and create Psi spells.

Reply #68 Top

Quoting alphonse101elric, reply 50
      ...   Part of me would like to wait to just see the finished product and not get involved in this beta stuff, but it's addicting!

As I noted on another thread, I pre-ordered the Beta on Jan 25, and I am really glad that I made the decision to do so.  I had been a "fence-sitter" for a long time prior; but fortunately, I finally jumped in when I did.  That's gotta be one of the best decisions I have made in this calendar year!

Being able to play a fascinating game already, and provide opinions and feedback, and then watch how FE is evolving, is definetly some Major Fun! 

I would really urge interested bystanders to purchase the Beta version now, and join the happy, growing, community of "Beta-testers".  I really think the whole experience is just going to get better and better. 

Reply #69 Top

Quoting Ashbery76, reply 57
Finally they did get the message.The player base does not want half baked bland factions.I have hope.

 

Completely agreed.

Reply #70 Top

What I want is really

1) Race and factions that play different

2) Champion improvements that play different depending on choices I make

3) Diversity in spell choices

The rest is mostly fluff really. Well except maybe city management, but personally I don't need anythign particularly brilliant for that. 

1+2+3 if done correctly, should usually lead to decent Tactical combats, since this will affect unit and champion diversity and spells of course...