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Beta Log through the eyes of a noob

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Beta Log through the eyes of a noob

from Elemental Forums


A (possibly ongoing) post of ranting, ravings, and random strings of profanity; all seen through the eyes of a noob to the genre.



*Note: I'm sure many of these issues are common knowledge for the development team, but I'm here to share my feedback nonetheless.  

*Note 2, the sequel: I'm more of an overall look-and-feel kinda guy.  I'll let others stare at the xml data for hours to determine if the numbers are balanced.

 

 

UI and Visual notifications

My initial thoughts thus far is that the game is currently leaps and bounds ahead of War of Magic in regards to noob friendliess.  The tutorial with videos, is a very welcome feature.  As a result of these videos and tutorial in-general, I learned more about the game's mechanics in fifteen minutes than I did in four hours of playing WoM on my own.

I noticed many small notifications, such as the "Zzzzz" above my city when it wasn't building an improvement.  These are greatly enhancing FE so far, so please keep this up.

 

 

While I appreciate the introduction of these icons, too many of them clutter the map and may confuse the noob:

 

Some icons are intuitive to me, such as the pickaxe means something to harvest (even food, I guess), and the green treasure chests (which I first believed were fists) mean treasure.

But what the crap is the purple squatting, hunched-over dragon; the blue soldier; and the red pad lock lock (at least this icon is easily recognizable)?  My first assumptions (after figuring out just what shape that purple thing may be) were monster, army, and unlockable... something.  I guess this game has wolves, horses, and skeletons that can be unlocked.  I don't know...

There are either too many icons, the icons aren't intuitive, or there needs to be an easy reminder for what they are (i.e. a side-menu or reminder when you click on an icon, one that can be preferably dismissed for the non-noobs).

 

 

 

Speaking of icons, I noticed that sometimes the cloth map view will show only a few icons, yet when I move the map or zoom out and back in one notch, a bunch more pop into view.  Maybe this is a bug.  

These icons were all guilty of this:

 

 

And then there are the orphaned icons, which once represented something nearby, but on a later turn, came back into view:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Minimap

I'm sorry, I love you guys, but the mini map currently sucks.  I'm sure it's color-coded for a reason, but why?  And my BIGGEST pet-peeve thus far: WHY, if I drag the main map up ("north" for example), does the mini map move northwest?  Seriously, kill this with fire.

 

 

 

The Art

I really enjoy the different environments in FE, contrasted with the endless wastelands of WoM.  But I have one suggestion, and one cautionary tale.

When green forests immediately become purple forests at the edge of a tile, it can look odd. 

 

 This is trivial though, contrasted with the cautionary tale below.

 

I was once mauled early-on when I failed to see the cave bear surrounded by purple forest.  If you are going to use similar colors, then I suggest you make the deadly creatures (which are normally easy to see via the icons when zoomed out) easier to see when zoomed in (ex. not have their colors so similar that the noobs don't see them).

 

 

 

Speaking of noobs and color issues, am I the red kingdom, or the blue kingdom?

 

 

 

 

Menus

Little touches like the ability to quickly change characters or execute decisions in the trace/shop window are great and intuitive.

 

 


Resources

 I get food.  I get money.  How is metal and materials related?  How do I make mana?  In the words of another poster:

"What gives me more mana? My mana production increased when I built a temple on a shard, so I'm assuming there is a connection ( ;)   ) but there was nothing that told me this. Maybe when I mouse-over my mana supply, it could tell me where it's coming from? And also maintain an account of the spells that require mana-upkeep? More meticulous mana management, methinks might make more mighty men. Maybe?"

  

Lastly, I was VERY confused when I read that a building's requirements were +1 maintenance.  What's maintenance?  Are there invisible handymen and janitors that work about my city?  No, apparently that means money.  OK, so if it means money, then I suggest you use that icon.




 

Battles

 What do these number mean?  There needs to be an easier way to determine the likelihood of winning a battle.  Specifically, the attack, defend, and overrall threat rating.  Here are some battle notes:

 

  1. I lost one battle because my threat level, attack number (is this what the sword represents?  Maybe I'll just call it the sword number), and defense number (shield?) were much higher than another creature's.  Yet what I failed to realize is that these numbers were my combined stats, and thus this creature slaughtered my army one person at a time.
  2. I lost one battle because while my sword number was higher than another army's, their shield number was vastly higher than mine.  I always missed them in-battle, and when I did hit them, did not seem to do as much damage as I expected.

 

 

 

  

 

Keybindings

 What land is good land?? There needs to be a button that quickly brings up the food/materials numbers for each tile when founding a city.  Maybe tab?

 

How do I take a screenshot?  I would love to see a key bindings screen in the Options.

 

 

 

 



Beginning my first game

Quoting from another user, as this described my first experience or seven:

"AAaaaand, POOF, I'm in the world! Oh, lots of stuff to read.... time to play! Oh, I was so excited! Awesome gfx, an untouched land ready to conquer! Sick. My sov was placed near a black widow, so, because I know I've gotta be pretty bad ass (I've got a beard!) and I should probably clear the area before I build a city (so I thought!) I attacked the thing.... I.... had been mistaken."

Noobs may need more warning in regards to their fragility in the early game.

Speaking of which, at the beginning of one game, I noticed that my sovereign began on a small peninsula, just large enough to eventually build a medium-sized city.  Yet surrounding this peninsula was nothing but desert and swamp.  Although that really didn't matter that much, because a Slag army and Drake army were blocking my path the mainland.  They just sort of sat there, eyeing me as if to say "bring it."   :omg:

118,645 views 31 replies
Reply #26 from Elemental Forums Top

Well done, but more than that...good job getting on the ball and taking notes right off the bat.  I used to be good at Beta testing but real life has a way of making me want to plow though games and find mechanical errors.  I see a lot of your notes and am reminded of the stuff that doesn't bug me or confuse me anymore...but have forgotten that it used to. 

Wish I had stopped and took notes in the first 10 minutes of play.

One thing I do remember is I really wish the resources ALWAYS appeared on the ? "toolbar" ? even at zero balance.

When I first started I was lost as to how resources worked and what types there were.  It wasn't till I got my first crystal mine that the amount of crystal I had appeared.  Then more came.  Now I want it for two reasons A) would have helped me as a noob to know what the materials were, and able to click and get details on them before I found them, and B) It would help "at-a-glance" finding your current resource state.  Specifically if your toolbar had all the resources listed from the beginning they would have a permanent location, meaning that when you finally get horses it doesn't wedge itself between mana and crystals.  That way you don't brain-fart and misread a number for the wrong resource.

 

Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

I think everyone playing on the lower difficulty levels is experiencing this problem, Gammit.  Lord knows I have been, and I'm actually experienced in this genre!  Luckily, the problems seem to stem from NPC AI bugs that are (hopefully) being fixed next patch.  For now, the only thing I can tell you is that Beginner is still a beginner setting, so you can play around on that setting without (nearly as much) fear of being wiped off the face of the earth in the first handful of turns.

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Reply #28 from Elemental Forums Top

Yes there are aspects to this game that are not noob friendly, especially around learning which battles you'll win w/o casualties and which you can't. I'm sure there are ppl here who are much better than me. I'm also somewhat new to the game, but I've played this type of game before and have beat it on hard. 

The key to these types of games is usually being aggressive in expansion (cities) and in leveling up you hero (sovereign).

 

Three suggestions:

1. Focus on finding loot and leveling your hero over everything else* (making him powerful, then he can take out AI players of opposing faction)

2. Focus on the magic shards and ignore metal and crystal until later. (imho mana is power, the others nice and metal and crystal are mostly useless)

3. Expand early. I've played a challenging game where my opening build was to lots of pioneers for safe* cities sites or outpost magic shard. I just assumed they would find places to build (they pretty much did). I never waited for optimal locations to be cleared out of monsters, I took sub-optimal safe* ones because I didn't want to wait.

 

* this can mean:

- other units can clear out your lands and make them safe his focus is the shortest path to loot and experience, or maybe to enemy towns once he is powerful enough

- if there are other champions in the group the xp is divided among them so no other champions, except temporarily to kill a tough monster and get some loot, other units are ok.

 

**safe = a site where no monsters would be adjacent to my zoc, even if there were higher yield sites that weren't safe I stuck with safe to be sure they'd last, latter in the game I think you need to be 2 square away to be safe so I lost one of my cities (but I ended up being able to rebuild in a nearby but not identical site. This also meant that a lot of cities would no longer be safe if I built any +1 zoc structures like monuments, so I never built them unless it would be safe.

 

You also might want to take a look at this thread for a narrated play by play of a specialized strategy where the guy is truly spanking the AI on the hardest settings.

https://forums.elementalgame.com/424198

Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Gammit10, reply 25
An update for patch 0.914:

 

The monster AI is fine, but the NPC AI is handing my ass to me (again, keep in mind I am very new to this genre).  Just like in WoM, they are majorly out-playing me, even on Easy, and I don't know why.  


This past game, I played as Altar on easy, and I routinely play a kingdom on easy (yes, that is Altar, the RED kingdom with BLUE zones of control...  seriously, this makes trying to figure out if that nearby yellow city belongs with the yellow faction (it's really the green faction) way too difficult).  
My general modus operandi is to research some early civics to boost my production and economy, and then one magic so I can build crystal foundries (IIRC). In the meantime, I am building city improvements to boost my economy, production, etc. while keeping an eye on my stores and input.  My coffers usually do well at this point.  
I am simultaneously using my sovereign and one champion, along with 1-2 squads of militia or spearmen to clear the surrounding areas of creatures and gather treasure.  I equip what I can on my sovereign and champion, and sell the rest.
If I find an area rich in metal or crystals I will send a pioneer to build a new city or an outpost.  
After exploring for 15-20 minutes, I eventually run into another kingdom or empire.  Without fail, their number in the upper-right (forget what it's called) is always at least 5, but more often 10 points higher than mine (say, 20 to my 12).  
They start threatening me shorty thereafter, so I begin researching warfare.  
Within 30 minutes or so their numbers are now significantly higher than mine (say 30 to my 14).  They declare war on me while I run into another empire/kingdom.   
The second NPC's numbers are higher than both mine and the original NPC kingdom/empire I encountered (say 38, 31, and my 16).  Within 10-20 minutes, they too have declared war on me, even if they are a like-minded kingdom that was "close" to me just a few minutes ago.  
Both NPC groups harass/destroy my outposts and weaker cities and then finally invade and crush me a short period of time thereafter.  

 

On the WoM boards, the only advice I received was "spam research," but that destroyed me then as well.

I know it is likely I am making significant mistakes, but feel the easy setting should not routinely kick my ass this hard in one hour (seriously, I have yet to win a game, or even conquer more than one NPC kingdom/empire).  

Even if I am "playing the game wrong," it does seem amiss that an easy setting will always kick my ass.  Because this was observed with WoM, I am deeply concerned there is something very anti-noob about the game.  Even if I am a terrible player ever at this game, should I not routinely get so horribly destroyed on easy?

 

Help

For your first point, you have smart player colors on. This is an option that changes the color to reflect their relation to you (which has its uses - but not always needed), if you want the faction's natural color, turn it off in the options.

As for your play style... I'm honestly not sure where you are going wrong, your 1-4, maybe even 5 sounds okay (I do pretty much the same thing even on hard). Let me put together a quick list of things that I do, and maybe it'll be of help:

On turn 1:

Ctrl+N if you get a 3/2 start. The problem isn't so much the grain, but the mat, you need at least 3 to get production in a manageable manner. 4/3 is what I would consider an "average" start (so if you take a 2 mat, you essentially lose 33% production - a pretty huge handicap). 5/3 and 4/4 are great starts. Always take 4/3 over 5/2 (the 5 grain takes too long to pay off - while the 2 mat handicap affects you immediately). 4/4 over 5/3 depends more on taste and needs.

Set taxes to zero. This makes your production and research go up. It doesn't generate much at the start anyways. Early on, you'll survive with a slight negative income using what you start with, and loot you sell.

Cast Inspiration on your city. This improves research. Choose the first "Civics" tech (for that prestige and rushing), to help your city grow faster.

Build a workshop (fairly cheap and makes all later production go faster).

Hire the nearby hero. He/she will be an extra scout, I tend to make them into governors and have them sit around doing nothing later on.

 

Very Early game:

Walk around looting freebie lairs and explore surrounding area, you want to know your general surrounding landscape and see if there are any potential expansion nearby. Kill weak mobs, and things you know you can take on. Moving up gradually as you gain better equips and levels. If you run into something a bit more dangerous nearby, just avoid it. But if you have to get rid of them, merge the two heroes and use your hireling as fodder, toss some spells on if you can. If it's even more dangerous, lure it back to your city and use the militia as fodder too.

In this stage I generally build more infrastructure buildings, Tower of Dominion is a good one, and then Lumbermill if available (I usually place my city where it is), but if not, sage. Research wise, I go for 2 more civic tech (knowledge and then agriculture) to get the first food tech and granary (an essential building). Then I usually go with shard harvesting (usually time it with a pioneer) and Training (for spear).

Early game:

Build 1-2 spearmen and use that to help your sovereign clear the surrounding areas, while building pioneers as necessary to claim land and expand, build the granary as well, of course. The other hero should continue to be a scout. Focus research back into civic. If you play on challenging or lower, you have a good chance at the Merchantcross Bazaar with my growth strategy, which will fund most of your early army, but on hard or above, forget it, it's a loss cause. You'll instead try to get economics as fast as possible for Farmer's market. You might need to adjust your tax a bit in between if you don't have enough stuff to sell, but it's usually not too bad unless your starting hero took everything you had. After that, you can do whatever you want.

Upon contact:

You need to decide right away what you want to do with said faction, don't let them decide it for you (this is important). If they are of a different alignment, chances are high that you'll want to get rid of them sooner or later. If they are the same, a pact or two and they'll be happy to be in your coattails unless you become too weak in their eyes (which you should never be). To prepare for war, research logistics (this part may change in next patch) and get a spearmen group or two... combine that with a bit of tactical strategy/spells usage and you should be able to march on their capitol. Once that falls, take any other good city they have, then demand their surrender (for the extra prestige their sovereign gives). The game is now a cakewalk.

Reply #30 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Kalin, reply 29

Quoting Gammit10, reply 25An update for patch 0.914:

 

The monster AI is fine, but the NPC AI is handing my ass to me (again, keep in mind I am very new to this genre).  Just like in WoM, they are majorly out-playing me, even on Easy, and I don't know why.  


This past game, I played as Altar on easy, and I routinely play a kingdom on easy (yes, that is Altar, the RED kingdom with BLUE zones of control...  seriously, this makes trying to figure out if that nearby yellow city belongs with the yellow faction (it's really the green faction) way too difficult).  
My general modus operandi is to research some early civics to boost my production and economy, and then one magic so I can build crystal foundries (IIRC). In the meantime, I am building city improvements to boost my economy, production, etc. while keeping an eye on my stores and input.  My coffers usually do well at this point.  
I am simultaneously using my sovereign and one champion, along with 1-2 squads of militia or spearmen to clear the surrounding areas of creatures and gather treasure.  I equip what I can on my sovereign and champion, and sell the rest.
If I find an area rich in metal or crystals I will send a pioneer to build a new city or an outpost.  
After exploring for 15-20 minutes, I eventually run into another kingdom or empire.  Without fail, their number in the upper-right (forget what it's called) is always at least 5, but more often 10 points higher than mine (say, 20 to my 12).  
They start threatening me shorty thereafter, so I begin researching warfare.  
Within 30 minutes or so their numbers are now significantly higher than mine (say 30 to my 14).  They declare war on me while I run into another empire/kingdom.   
The second NPC's numbers are higher than both mine and the original NPC kingdom/empire I encountered (say 38, 31, and my 16).  Within 10-20 minutes, they too have declared war on me, even if they are a like-minded kingdom that was "close" to me just a few minutes ago.  
Both NPC groups harass/destroy my outposts and weaker cities and then finally invade and crush me a short period of time thereafter.  

 

On the WoM boards, the only advice I received was "spam research," but that destroyed me then as well.

I know it is likely I am making significant mistakes, but feel the easy setting should not routinely kick my ass this hard in one hour (seriously, I have yet to win a game, or even conquer more than one NPC kingdom/empire).  

Even if I am "playing the game wrong," it does seem amiss that an easy setting will always kick my ass.  Because this was observed with WoM, I am deeply concerned there is something very anti-noob about the game.  Even if I am a terrible player ever at this game, should I not routinely get so horribly destroyed on easy?

 

Help

For your first point, you have smart player colors on. This is an option that changes the color to reflect their relation to you (which has its uses - but not always needed), if you want the faction's natural color, turn it off in the options.

As for your play style... I'm honestly not sure where you are going wrong, your 1-4, maybe even 5 sounds okay (I do pretty much the same thing even on hard). Let me put together a quick list of things that I do, and maybe it'll be of help:

On turn 1:

Ctrl+N if you get a 3/2 start. The problem isn't so much the grain, but the mat, you need at least 3 to get production in a manageable manner. 4/3 is what I would consider an "average" start (so if you take a 2 mat, you essentially lose 33% production - a pretty huge handicap). 5/3 and 4/4 are great starts. Always take 4/3 over 5/2 (the 5 grain takes too long to pay off - while the 2 mat handicap affects you immediately). 4/4 over 5/3 depends more on taste and needs.

Set taxes to zero. This makes your production and research go up. It doesn't generate much at the start anyways. Early on, you'll survive with a slight negative income using what you start with, and loot you sell.

Cast Inspiration on your city. This improves research. Choose the first "Civics" tech (for that prestige and rushing), to help your city grow faster.

Build a workshop (fairly cheap and makes all later production go faster).

Hire the nearby hero. He/she will be an extra scout, I tend to make them into governors and have them sit around doing nothing later on.

 

Very Early game:

Walk around looting freebie lairs and explore surrounding area, you want to know your general surrounding landscape and see if there are any potential expansion nearby. Kill weak mobs, and things you know you can take on. Moving up gradually as you gain better equips and levels. If you run into something a bit more dangerous nearby, just avoid it. But if you have to get rid of them, merge the two heroes and use your hireling as fodder, toss some spells on if you can. If it's even more dangerous, lure it back to your city and use the militia as fodder too.

In this stage I generally build more infrastructure buildings, Tower of Dominion is a good one, and then Lumbermill if available (I usually place my city where it is), but if not, sage. Research wise, I go for 2 more civic tech (knowledge and then agriculture) to get the first food tech and granary (an essential building). Then I usually go with shard harvesting (usually time it with a pioneer) and Training (for spear).

Early game:

Build 1-2 spearmen and use that to help your sovereign clear the surrounding areas, while building pioneers as necessary to claim land and expand, build the granary as well, of course. The other hero should continue to be a scout. Focus research back into civic. If you play on challenging or lower, you have a good chance at the Merchantcross Bazaar with my growth strategy, which will fund most of your early army, but on hard or above, forget it, it's a loss cause. You'll instead try to get economics as fast as possible for Farmer's market. You might need to adjust your tax a bit in between if you don't have enough stuff to sell, but it's usually not too bad unless your starting hero took everything you had. After that, you can do whatever you want.

Upon contact:

You need to decide right away what you want to do with said faction, don't let them decide it for you (this is important). If they are of a different alignment, chances are high that you'll want to get rid of them sooner or later. If they are the same, a pact or two and they'll be happy to be in your coattails unless you become too weak in their eyes (which you should never be). To prepare for war, research logistics (this part may change in next patch) and get a spearmen group or two... combine that with a bit of tactical strategy/spells usage and you should be able to march on their capitol. Once that falls, take any other good city they have, then demand their surrender (for the extra prestige their sovereign gives). The game is now a cakewalk.

 

Smart colors, eh?  That explains EVERYTHING!  Thank you SO much.  I wish somebody would have mentioned that earlier.  Now things are much easier to interpret.   :w00t:

I set the game's difficulty to Novice(?) (one below easy), and it seems to fit much better.  I forgot this was even an option; I thought easy was the easiest.  One comment about this: I like that some of the difficulty settings have novice/noob explanations, such as "good for beginners," or "good for beginners to the genre," etc.  Not all of the settings have this type of explanation.  I hope each get its own noob-description.

 

Now the only major pet-peeve is the fact that when the land moves North (from default, I have not rotated the land) the minimap moves Northwest.

 

 

 

Regarding the faction power: is it me, or are these numbers only tied to civics and/or production?  I have spent the last two games experimenting by researching almost all Civics, and my numbers are finally on par with the AI.  When I focus on Warfare, the AI's numbers are always much higher than mine.

Follow-up question to the developers or modders: how is the faction strength number calculated?  Does it accurately reflect a faction if they are not researching Civics?

Reply #31 from Elemental Forums Top

Something I have noticed with my two current games on this patch: the AI (factions) are ignoring treasure.  I am currently creating non-aggression treaties with all empires so I can walk into their territory and collect their unguarded loot (green treasure chests).  Granted, I am playing on an easier setting (novice?), but this seemed odd to me.