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My take of the game in its current state

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My take of the game in its current state

from Elemental Forums

Here is what I think of the game in its current version. First I must say that I really enjoy this game, and am looking forward to what is to come.

 

What FE does better than most games already (the great stuff)

1. All units gets experience, even the wildlings. Fantastic. This is something that can be used in interesting ways in the future as well. Imagine a roaming strong monster getting stronger and stronger as it chews up the wild :)

2. When you change gear on a unit its apperance actually change. A nice little touch there

3. Resources are produced per turn and require long term planning. Late game you might need 140 metal to produce your tough defender forces. Lets hope you thought of this earlier in the game when those outposts were planned :d Other resources like material and food determine production and population. Me likes!

4. We can get spells from research, level ups and through other means. This is a great start, and I hope it will be expanded upon.

5. We can hire monsters like Drakes (they are insane with their Sweep ability, is the damage calc bugged?). 

6. There are lots of weapons with interesting effects. Give us more 

7. The monsters have AI. This should be improved upon to give more personalities to the monsters. Some (spiders?) could eventually group if they are not killed early game. Thus making more interesting opponents. Some should hunt you down the moment they see you. Some should be cowards and try to flee. Some could hate Kingdom/Empire and almost exclusively attack one faction. 

 

What is still a bit thin (what I want to be improved the most)

1. City building is still a bit shallow. Has been discussed a lot. I want buildings that does special stuff. Tower of corruption, available only for Empire (+0.5 growth , all Kingdom players get -0.2 growth). Library of lore (gives access to a unique spell, only one can be built in the world). Travellers inn (at random intervals some travelling unit will offer to go into your service for a cost)+++

2. Better quests. I want a witch to tell me to focus on air shards to promote her religion. If I get 4 air shards she will give me two air elementals. I want a man seeking revenge for his lost family and rewarding me with 100 mana for each troll I kill for the rest of the game. :d

3. The AI of the monsters seem to treat AI players and human players differently. I often see AI units passing monsters without being attacked. On the other hand I see that the AI sovereigns have lots of wounds. Is that from warring or bad estimats of what monsters they should attack?

4. The AI cannot build tough enough armies to challenge the humans (yet). They need to try to make a few elite armies. Start by picking up the free stuff in the world :)

5. More variance in the tech research. We need more options. I would like techs that exculde eachother and other goodies. If I commit to the lord of fire and research fire shield tech (gives a few fire spells) then the lord of wind will not grant me access to the tech air travel. You get the picture 

6. Mercenaries. I would like to hire special mercenaries that are not otherwise available in the game. Some units with special abilities that are cooler than normal units. Units that I want to protect and use at the same time. They could be attracted by some special building, completing quests and such.

7. Monster control. I would like to bribe/control monsters in an indirect way. Umber should be able to pay a troll to go and attack a certain faction in general, without actually controlling the unit. That would be awesome. I would also like to see what this units see (so that the rampage is not in my fog of war).

8. Faction variation. Discussed to death already. 

9. More passive abilities. Take a look at Kings Bounty and all the abilities that the units have there. I would like passive abilities like Horseslayer (+5 attack against all units on horse), Aggressor (+2 attack in all battles outside your area), Souldrinker (+3 hitpoints on each successful attack the unit does), Woodsman(+2 attack and defense in wood areas) +++

10. Random events. I would like some cool random events that could really change the game (make an option to turn this off for the pureblood who dont like surprises). Events could be: Storm from the east: Due to heavy battles in a far away land, fleeing forces has landed on our shores and are looking for land to live in (lots of monsters arriving at the edge of the map). Bad Harvest: No population growth in the world for 10 rounds. Troll shaman. A regular troll has discovered the book of blood and turned into a very strong Troll Shaman. He is attracting trolls and making a huge dangerous army.

These are my main points at the moment. 

44,864 views 71 replies
Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting LNQ, reply 24
Frogboy, thanks for letting in on that city building is going to change dramatically. That's the first time I heard this and I have been hoping to read it for a long time.

I was under the impression we had posted previously that we were going to make city building no longer a main map thing? I thought Derek had put that in a journal?

Elemental: Reforged
Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

With the number of comments Frogboy, and to a lesser extent Kael, makes, it's easy to lose track of some that may actually not have happened yet. =)

Reply #30 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Satrhan, reply 28
That had better not be a joke

It's not a joke.  I'm almost positive Kael had blogged on this at some point. About the city specialization? That a city on the main map would be 1 tile and would "grow" a little bit based on what level and specialization it was but the improvements would be built on a separate screen ala Civ. You could look at your pretty city in the city build window but on the main map it'll basically be 1 tile with each faction having their own unique city looks. This isn't in beta 3 btw. This is a beta 4 thing.  If you hadn't previously heard it, then ignore what I just wrote because it's still at least 2 months away. 

Reply #31 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 30

Quoting Satrhan, reply 28That had better not be a joke

It's not a joke.  I'm almost positive Kael had blogged on this at some point. About the city specialization? That a city on the main map would be 1 tile and would "grow" a little bit based on what level and specialization it was but the improvements would be built on a separate screen ala Civ. You could look at your pretty city in the city build window but on the main map it'll basically be 1 tile with each faction having their own unique city looks. This isn't in beta 3 btw. This is a beta 4 thing.  If you hadn't previously heard it, then ignore what I just wrote because it's still at least 2 months away. 

 

Hoo-ray! Great news, even if it's not coming soon.

Reply #32 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 27
I was under the impression we had posted previously that we were going to make city building no longer a main map thing? I thought Derek had put that in a journal?

 

This must be disinformation. Someone has hacked Brad's account! No journal has ever mentioned such heresy.  :cylon:

Reply #33 from Elemental Forums Top


Wow, that's a big change. I can see why you'd do it for city looks differentiation but the big cities will certainly not look nearly as impressive as they currently do if they remain one tile no matter the city size. 1 tile works well on 2d maps (AoW, MoM) but not so much with 3d, IMO. Especially with the unit sizes what they are.

One possible solution (suggestion) would be to start on one tile for a small city and then have 4 set 'growth' cycles for each city that add one tile to the city size for each city level. Like so:

  • Size 1 city X
  • Size 2 city XX
  • Size 3 city XX
  •                 X
  • Size 4 city XX
  •                 XX

So a max growth city would cover 4 tiles and look pretty impressive. It does pretty much what you're trying to do with a single tile but will look much better. You already have the mechanics in the engine to do this so why not take advantage of it?

EDIT: This would cosmetic only, you'd still have the separate screen to show whatever you build there. This would just make what you see on the game map much more impressive visually.

Reply #34 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 30

It's not a joke.  I'm almost positive Kael had blogged on this at some point. About the city specialization? That a city on the main map would be 1 tile and would "grow" a little bit based on what level and specialization it was but the improvements would be built on a separate screen ala Civ. You could look at your pretty city in the city build window but on the main map it'll basically be 1 tile with each faction having their own unique city looks. This isn't in beta 3 btw. This is a beta 4 thing.  If you hadn't previously heard it, then ignore what I just wrote because it's still at least 2 months away. 

Holy crap this is totally new. I think this is a good direction to go though. But I would really like to see this mythical journal post.

 

EDIT: I really wish Derek would do more journal entries.

Reply #35 from Elemental Forums Top

Sweeeeeeeeeeet! :w00t:

I've been hoping there would be a significant change in the city building mechanics, but I was beginning to doubt anything would be done about it. Thank you for restoring some of my hopes for this game!

Reply #36 from Elemental Forums Top

I have another little suggestion while we are at it (and while I am drunk, but ignore any spelling errors).

 

Passive ability Pack/Swarm. Some units (Wolves, spiders mayhaps) could have this ability that they get a bonus pr unit in the army. For each wolf in the army they get a +2 attack. If a normal wolf has an attack of 8, a group of 5 would have an attack of 8 + 4x2 = 16. If you kill a wolf during battle the attack would be 8 + 3x2 = 14 and so on.

 

Guardian soul. Passive ability. For each attack on such a unit a ghost is created that will fight for the attacked army. If you attack when you are too weak to kill the unit quickly, then you would face an increasing amount of ghost. They would not be very strong by themselves, but if you create many its a problem. 

 

Elemental avenger. Passive ability. All attacks on elementals are critical.

 

Arcane destroyer. Passive ability. All attacks on mages are +50% damage. 

Reply #37 from Elemental Forums Top

Very happy to hear of potentially large tech tree changes.  :rofl:

I had held off mentioning this thinking that the current version was just a stopgap.   Huge relief.

Reply #38 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 30
Quoting Satrhan, reply 28That had better not be a joke

It's not a joke.  I'm almost positive Kael had blogged on this at some point. About the city specialization? That a city on the main map would be 1 tile and would "grow" a little bit based on what level and specialization it was but the improvements would be built on a separate screen ala Civ. You could look at your pretty city in the city build window but on the main map it'll basically be 1 tile with each faction having their own unique city looks. This isn't in beta 3 btw. This is a beta 4 thing.  If you hadn't previously heard it, then ignore what I just wrote because it's still at least 2 months away. 

I just checked my Powerball tickets and I won $300M!

Derek does need to say hi now and then, we miss him.

Reply #39 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 30
It's not a joke.  I'm almost positive Kael had blogged on this at some point. About the city specialization? That a city on the main map would be 1 tile and would "grow" a little bit based on what level and specialization it was but the improvements would be built on a separate screen ala Civ. You could look at your pretty city in the city build window but on the main map it'll basically be 1 tile with each faction having their own unique city looks. This isn't in beta 3 btw. This is a beta 4 thing.  If you hadn't previously heard it, then ignore what I just wrote because it's still at least 2 months away. 

Mmm, interesting. I'll be a little bit sorry to see building placement and physically growing cities go.

However I won't be at all sorry to see mechanics like snaking cities to assist troop movement and the 'cant build another city within X' boundaries growing as you expand your cities. So I guess if this is the best solution to those problems then so be it.

Reply #40 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Malsqueek, reply 7


There were also abilities could be bought. The number of spellbooks chosen determined not only the totall number of spells you had access to during the game, but the number of spells you would get PER LEVEL (randomly selected). Thus There were three levels of mutual exclusivity in sovereign creation alone.

* Skills that impacted a specific aspect of the game, and were powerful and VERY rare to find during game play.

* A finite number of picks which limited the amount of overall magic you have access to on any given playthrough. you can only have so many books.

* A finite number of spells within each school that could only be gained by having enough books of the school, and even then there were high level spells that you only saw every few playthroughs (Crusade, for instance).

This is the aspect of MoM that has had me so enchanted for nearly 20 years.

That was one of the main winning features of MoM, yes :)  Simple yet brilliant.

Also, I like what the OP said, and everything Brad said in this thread. Changes sure sound good :) 

Reply #41 from Elemental Forums Top

The new system sounds exactly like what I had hoped for. Looking forward to it.

 

Reply #42 from Elemental Forums Top

If this beta was connected to Steam I think we would see the following scenario.

 

Techguy1 to Techguy2. "Hey, something is wrong here. The total playtime for last month only adds up to 80%. Whats up?". Techguy2 to Techguy1. "Its just the Stardokians going at it. You just forgot to include the betaplays again. They are betatesting 24/7 those crazy strategy guys"

:d

 

Anyways, I have enough suggestions to fill the internet :)

 

How about a mercenary/monster/army offering to work for you for 10 gildar, 10 crystal and 2 metal a round. If you hire them and later cannot pay them for a round, they will turn on you. That would really keep me on my toes, and it would force me to take a tough choice to hire them or not.

Reply #43 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 10
Great feedback.

Derek (lead designer) has very similar views to this as well.

So far, we've had Beta 1 and Beta 2.  Beta 1 was just the initial beta to test the "new engine".  In WOM, we waited way too late to do that and that resulted in a lot of launch problems.

Beta 2 had been our general gameplay feedback beta. That is, get the AI playing the game, get the raw mechanics going, etc.

Next up is Beta 3.  That beta will take awhile to complete. By that I mean there will be a Beta 3A, Beta 3B...Beta 3X.  That's because Beta 3 is about faction differentiation where we start to make every faction feel and play differently. I won't give away too much here but it'll probably be in beta 3 that the third resource gets added (right now there's only food and material).

After that is Beta 4. That beta revolves around the technology tree and the cities where we have pretty dramatic changes coming. I've been asked not to  give too much away but I will say that the plan here is to change the way cities are currently constructed and how they interact with the world.  The tech tree will likely dramatically change during this period.

AFTER Beta 4, we will decide if we need a Beta 5 or not.  I am pressing for a Beta 5 but it won't be my call. 

The reason I'm posting this as a comment is that your post helps illustrate precisely why we're rolling out the major features of FE rather than putting them out all at once in a single "big" beta.  Player feedback helps the team think about implementation details that might have gone unnoticed otherwise.

Thanks for the post.

This truely is relieving to hear! And will surely calm some of my anxiety. Will you be able to sqeeze all that in the months until september? Time seems to fly by...

Anyway, this info is journal worthy.

Reply #44 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 30
It's not a joke.  I'm almost positive Kael had blogged on this at some point. About the city specialization? That a city on the main map would be 1 tile and would "grow" a little bit based on what level and specialization it was but the improvements would be built on a separate screen ala Civ. You could look at your pretty city in the city build window but on the main map it'll basically be 1 tile with each faction having their own unique city looks. This isn't in beta 3 btw. This is a beta 4 thing.  If you hadn't previously heard it, then ignore what I just wrote because it's still at least 2 months away. 

That is great, because such a system will work much better than the current one and many good games, like MOO2, use such a system, too.

Reply #45 from Elemental Forums Top


5. More variance in the tech research. We need more options. I would like techs that exculde eachother and other goodies. If I commit to the lord of fire and research fire shield tech (gives a few fire spells) then the lord of wind will not grant me access to the tech air travel. You get the picture

9. More passive abilities. Take a look at Kings Bounty and all the abilities that the units have there. I would like passive abilities like Horseslayer (+5 attack against all units on horse), Aggressor (+2 attack in all battles outside your area), Souldrinker (+3 hitpoints on each successful attack the unit does), Woodsman(+2 attack and defense in wood areas) +++

10. Random events. I would like some cool random events that could really change the game (make an option to turn this off for the pureblood who dont like surprises). Events could be: Storm from the east: Due to heavy battles in a far away land, fleeing forces has landed on our shores and are looking for land to live in (lots of monsters arriving at the edge of the map). Bad Harvest: No population growth in the world for 10 rounds. Troll shaman. A regular troll has discovered the book of blood and turned into a very strong Troll Shaman. He is attracting trolls and making a huge dangerous army.

While I agree with most of the Original Post, (Like a bit more advanced city management), I think I need to comment on the 4 quoted stuffs ^^.

5: Can't say I am happy about the excluding techs, I like to feel I am able to complete my research tree... I think that research should be valuable enough to not need excluding techs during game-play, but just have people either focus one of the research branches (making it viable compared to how long it takes ATM.).

9: Funny, I want more active abilities, though I want some that matter, I think leveling stuff should give proper passive abilities (like the ones you described), or proper active ones. (there is an attack that always hits but deals 75% damage... that is rather rubbish since heroes have yay high accuracy) - that said, I feel a lot could be done to upgrade the level up system.

10: I do like random events, I just don't like random effects that ruins games, so "lesser" random events, like a monster upgrading itself, the occasional monster raiding party (me feels that is one of the things that are needed, monsters launching attacks on people clearing out a lot of monsters. I don't like the idea of a lot of monster spawning in the west side of the map, since that could totally ruin one players game if have cities running all the way up that coast and now have to defend ALL his cities from monsters, on the same note I don't super positive outcomes either, like the same player getting tons of free population in his cities or the similar.

 

"Quoting Frogboy:"
About the city specialization? That a city on the main map would be 1 tile and would "grow" a little bit based on what level and specialization it was but the improvements would be built on a separate screen ala Civ. You could look at your pretty city in the city build window but on the main map it'll basically be 1 tile with each faction having their own unique city looks."/quote"

I hope not! I hope cities remain they're multitile style that they have at the moment, though meaby with less tiles, and more controlled. I really like the grandness of the current cities, sorry if I am too negative tho.

Why can't I have 2 quotes in 1 post O_O, anyways - thats all for now xD
Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #46 from Elemental Forums Top

There are three levels of monster density. Random events could be the same. Lesser, Medium and Major random events. 

Reply #47 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 30
That a city on the main map would be 1 tile and would "grow" a little bit based on what level and specialization it was but the improvements would be built on a separate screen ala Civ. You could look at your pretty city in the city build window but on the main map it'll basically be 1 tile with each faction having their own unique city looks.

I may have missed the original announcement of this, but I will just say... sweet, sweet music to my ears.

 

Reply #48 from Elemental Forums Top

Some feedback of my own:

0) Is there a simple written guide/manual for EFE? I find the in-game help largely useless; the last thing I want is some video clip when I'm just trying to find out what a certain thing is or how something works. A PDF keyboard shortcuts chart would be nice, too.

1) EFE is what EWOM should have been (which, for me, raises the question as to why I've had to pay for EFE, but I'll let that go; I've spent my own time on the game design/development side of things). Even at this beta 2 stage, it is a more interesting and balanced game.

2) I know I should pay more attention to the various trade-offs in building my cities...but I was never very good at that in CIV, either. FFH2 was quite forgiving in that regard, so I've been spoiled. I'd like some brief, simple dashboard -- not a chart or a spreadsheet, but some visual, graphical indicators -- that gives me an at-a-glance summary of how each given city is doing, as well as my overall empire. I'm here to conquer the worlds, not crunch numbers.

3) Ditto what joasoze said about AI armies. I have a custom sovereign (named Salem, after my youngest daughter) who focuses on becoming a firemage with that nifty +10 initiative on her first move. Once I've staked out a few fire shards and she's gained the fireball spell (and a few +50% spell damage buffs), she's largely unbeatable -- her army meets the AI army, she throws a fireball, and they're all toast. I played a game a day or two ago where once of the other factions had build up its power rating to 800+ (I was down around 300) and declared war against me. I took Salem's army (and a backup army), marched into my enemy's territory, captured the nearest city (and left the backup army there to hold it), captured the next city in, and let Salem's army sit there. The enemy threw a steady stream of medium to strong armies at that city, all of which were destroyed on the first round. The enemy never sent a 'deadly'-level army.

4) Wilding cities. Better yet, wilding cities that somehow incorporate spiders, trolls, drakes, etc. And possibly a wilding empire that can become a threat to all other kingdoms, unleashing hordes of intelligently-directed monsters, sweeping all before it. And maybe a player option to play that wilding empire. Heh.

5) I really like the whole quest-region concept (e.g., the scrapyard, the caves of whomever, etc.). That is a great game design concept and has so many different applications. I now find myself looking for those dark green borders. I also like the user-selectable level-up buffs.

6) Speaking of manuals...is there any special significance to the little "Empire" outposts, or do they just represent more combat opportunities?

7) Speaking of outposts -- I like the city/outpost dichotomy as well.

8) Finally, here's a request I have of most games, though I have yet to find one that has implemented it: provide a means to delete all saved games with a single operation. (Yes, yes, I could go find the save games folder and do it myself, but it's cleaner if it comes through the game.)

Keep up the great work.  ..fritz..

 

Reply #49 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting bfwebster, reply 48
Some feedback of my own:

0) Is there a simple written guide/manual for EFE? I find the in-game help largely useless; the last thing I want is some video clip when I'm just trying to find out what a certain thing is or how something works. A PDF keyboard shortcuts chart would be nice, too.

1) EFE is what EWOM should have been (which, for me, raises the question as to why I've had to pay for EFE, but I'll let that go; I've spent my own time on the game design/development side of things). Even at this beta 2 stage, it is a more interesting and balanced game.

2) I know I should pay more attention to the various trade-offs in building my cities...but I was never very good at that in CIV, either. FFH2 was quite forgiving in that regard, so I've been spoiled. I'd like some brief, simple dashboard -- not a chart or a spreadsheet, but some visual, graphical indicators -- that gives me an at-a-glance summary of how each given city is doing, as well as my overall empire. I'm here to conquer the worlds, not crunch numbers.

3) Ditto what joasoze said about AI armies. I have a custom sovereign (named Salem, after my youngest daughter) who focuses on becoming a firemage with that nifty +10 initiative on her first move. Once I've staked out a few fire shards and she's gained the fireball spell (and a few +50% spell damage buffs), she's largely unbeatable -- her army meets the AI army, she throws a fireball, and they're all toast. I played a game a day or two ago where once of the other factions had build up its power rating to 800+ (I was down around 300) and declared war against me. I took Salem's army (and a backup army), marched into my enemy's territory, captured the nearest city (and left the backup army there to hold it), captured the next city in, and let Salem's army sit there. The enemy threw a steady stream of medium to strong armies at that city, all of which were destroyed on the first round. The enemy never sent a 'deadly'-level army.

4) Wilding cities. Better yet, wilding cities that somehow incorporate spiders, trolls, drakes, etc. And possibly a wilding empire that can become a threat to all other kingdoms, unleashing hordes of intelligently-directed monsters, sweeping all before it. And maybe a player option to play that wilding empire. Heh.

5) I really like the whole quest-region concept (e.g., the scrapyard, the caves of whomever, etc.). That is a great game design concept and has so many different applications. I now find myself looking for those dark green borders. I also like the user-selectable level-up buffs.

6) Speaking of manuals...is there any special significance to the little "Empire" outposts, or do they just represent more combat opportunities?

7) Speaking of outposts -- I like the city/outpost dichotomy as well.

8) Finally, here's a request I have of most games, though I have yet to find one that has implemented it: provide a means to delete all saved games with a single operation. (Yes, yes, I could go find the save games folder and do it myself, but it's cleaner if it comes through the game.)

Keep up the great work.  ..fritz..

 

0) I guess they will be making a manual when the game is about done. I could very well be that the community makes one before that (or a wiki). Time will tell.

1) I bought Elemental early and get FE for free. I dont know if you are within the terms for that.

2) There is a good city list under govern that I use to check for city growth and stuff like that. There is also a good list of units and their cost to your empire

3) The AI has a disadvantage compared to for example CIV IV. It cannot build a stack of doom as in CIV VI where there were no limits to army size. In FE the AI has to develop a few elite units and cannot just produce fodder, if it wants to compete. We can only hope that the frog delivers in the end :d

4) THIS IS PRETTY MUCH WHAT I HAVE SUGGESTED ABOUT 10 TIMES ON THIS FORUM!! PRETTY PLEASE STARDOCK WITH SUGAR ON TOP.

5) Agree

6) Not sure what you refere to here. Are you talking about the Empire heroes? Some of them looks like they live in an outpost. Kill them befor the enemy recruit them.

7) Yep

8) Sounds good

Reply #50 from Elemental Forums Top

Dudes, he's joking about the 1 tile cities.  They are not changing to 1 tile cities.  April Fool's Day is still a week a way and you're already falling for it.