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[eWIP] Waiting For Next Beta Mod

[eWIP] Waiting For Next Beta Mod

 

Waiting For Next Beta Mod

By Seanw3 and Werewindlefr

 

 

For all those that are tired of waiting for updates, I have thrown together a mod that fixes many balance issues that seem to be on the back burner for now. Since we seem to be waiting more for a new version than actually be working on bugs, I feel it's time to test some of my ideas for balance. This mod tackles everything from buildings impotency to Initiative costs for armor.

This version makes the mod better according to user suggestions. It is more so set to be compatible with the new and mysterious beta we are getting next week. Of course, we may not get it next week...

 

Notable Changes:

+Buildings cost alot more labor, have less maintenance, and do more. Levelup buildings are all valuable, but I can't change the descriptions. Please refer to the tooltips for information.The intent is to make buildings take a serious amount of time that equals their benefit. I have made some adjustments here. It will not be as painful as before, but you will want to stick to units until you get about 40 Production. A 3/4 spot is the best one in the early game now. Rivers and Forests are extremely valuable for the bonuses you get from them.

+Wages are primarily determined by unit size. Training cost is also a factor, but units in general won't break the bank. You can upgrade at a reasonable cost in armor, weapons, and unit size.

+Growth for your capital starts at 1 instead of 0. Tower of Dominion gives +3 to growth. Growth is more balanced. Don't be afraid to have a low Grain yield in your capital if you can get 4 Material. Your ability to produce will help you win Act I and expand to 3 or 4 high Grain cities. There are also more important growth buildings throughout the game. If you specialize in Civilization, you will have the advantage of lots of great cities.

+Camps of all kinds now offer excellent units. Serpent's Pact may be the best thing in the game. You can also now put them into logistical units instead of single only. Beware the food costs. Also, each level will significantly improve your monster's abilities. They are best countered with magic.

+Spears now do 33% armor penetration and have a higher attack. Be sure to make lots of unit design for that darn AI! It really helps the AI.

+50%,75%,100%, and 100%+ encumbrance now has real penalties. -4, -8, -12, and -12 Initiative -1 Move, are the respective penalties for encumbrance.

+Armor no longer automatically reduces Initiative. Labor costs for better armor are higher to reflect discussions on real platemail. It now has a bonus against pierce, but is vulnerable to blunt damage. Chainmail is great at stopping cutting damage.

+Unique weapons are more balanced with trainable weapons. The damages were way out of hand. 

+Many items have been changed to be more desirable to heroes. Potions and Food now do much more healing at much less cost. Stock up!

+Monsters breed very quickly but are positioned far away from your starting position. You should be safe, but still have to fight some big battles to expand. This is where feedback is needed, since the switches for this part are confusing. I suggest starting on Sparse. Each lair now holds a very angry army. They will move towards you and lairs will even send out wandering armies that respawn when killed.

+Mage Staves now do more damage, but it can be resisted with Spell Resistance and Elemental Resistance. I suggest getting some late game research buildings, as they increase Intelligence and offer some nice Mage Robes in the shop. The late game ones do AoE. This part may be buggy, gonna need feedback, but the intent is to allow AoE to hit friend and foe alike.

+Legendary weapons are now Legendary. In general, weapons get lighter and more powerful as you tech up.

+Magical Weapons now do much more damage. They are basic weapons with additional magic damage. They also cost more.

+There are now Frost bolts for frost weapons. No more fire out of those ice staves.

+Onyx Throne now has a tile, as do a few others that were missing tiles.

+Levelup Buildings at level 5 now have fundamental impacts on how you play the game.

+Shadow Gate should now be functional. I have yet to test it, but I believe I have fixed it.

+Lots of Unit Designs for factions. It makes the AI better when they have more choices.

+Each Sovereign Background Trait gives you special starting units. You will get great units from war based traits. Pick Diplomatic and expect to be hiding in your castle for long periods of time. But your bonus will be very good later on. There are many valuable weapons you may start with as well. I suggest making your own Sov for this mod.

-Turns will take longer in the beginning due to the number of creatures present. Kill them off to speed things up. Sorry about that.

+Quests are back! but divide all Gildar rewards by 10. Need to fix this, sorry.

+Be sure to read the descriptions of Levelup Buildings. As a rule, the ones that offer few bonuses will unlock some game changing things in the shop. Archivist will unlock books in the shop that cost Gildar, but can seriously upgrade heroes.

+Paths have been added. This is really just a preview of what we are planning on adding. Path of the Protector should be the first thing you check out. It is the best thing for a Field General class. There is also a Knight Path and some other good things. 

+Each Sov Background Trait allows you some special units at the start of the game. Monsters are more numerous and you start with some units. The beginning should actually be exciting now. But don't get too loose with those troops, they cannot be recovered or retrained. The traits themselves are also better and should alter how you play the game. Warlike backgrounds will give you much better starting units. Diplomatic, for example, gives you crap units, but you can keep the peace later on and afford an infinite number of trained monsters. Serpent's Pact+Diplomatic is a fun way to play. Also, Summoner gives Fire Elementals instead of men. Warlock gives Mages with staves. I will need feedback on balance here as some of them may be too good. FYI, General is supposed to be overpowered. 

+Materials now give 8 production by default instead of 5.

+Common Rarity Traits for Heroes are now cancer free. You might actually want them.

+Sov Talents now have some interesting options. Will you be a Necromonger? Do you come from money? What special abilities have you acquired in your travels? I would like to add more if anyone has any ideas.

+Unit Design Traits have been rebalanced. The costs are higher, but so are the effects. There are 2 free level options. Go ahead and read each one as they come to you.

+Spells got some balance. No more Mana Blast=Win

+Improvements not properly display their functions, all their functions, and nothing but their functions.

+Faction Traits now have more variety. Each Tech Trait offers 3 starting techs. The other options should be just as good as techs, but I am curious how other will balance these. You could choose 9 starting techs or you could choose 3 abilities. Master Smiths+Endless Legion+Warlord could be very powerful.

+Stock Sovs now use their 6 points of customization and are about the same as any custom one. Any thoughts on changes is welcome. I tend to go for two elemental spellbooks and the rest of the points go towards equipment and talents. Maybe there is a Talent i should add to better characterize a Sov?

+Upgrading Groups now cost 30 Gildar per soldier you are adding to the Unit.

+Many more changes all around. Let me know what you think.

 

How to Install:

First thing you need to do is add -localdataonly at the end of the file path for your shortcut. To do this, right click on any shortcut you have made for the game and click Properties. In the Target box there is a file path. At the end, add a space and type -localdataonly. Now download the link below and unzip it. In the file is the original xml file and the modded one, labeled Test. Take all the ones with Test in the name and copy them into FallenEnchantress/Data/English (except CoreImprovementsTest and ArtImprovementsTest, those go in the Improvements Folder there). Now delete the core files that my files are replacing. The backup copies are in the folder you downloaded. It is important to always have the original backup and a backup of your mod files as they may be erased by updates by the devs. To summarize, you just put the modded files in the game folder and got rid of the originals so that the game will read the modded ones. You added -localdataonly to the end of the file path for the desktop shortcut, allowing the game to see your computer's xml instead of the ones on the server. You should now be ready to play a new game that is much more fun!

Links Here:

Waiting For Next Beta Mod (v42.Hitchhiker's Guide to the Realm)

 

Rules:

Don't post bugs in FE Support when using a mod. We have a special thread for mod bugs.

Remember to put the original files back before updating and keep a copy of the modded files. Many things change from one version to the next. Better to keep things as the devs expect them to be. 

Do post new ideas and problems you encounter here. The whole point of this is to give some parallel feedback on what you think works and what doesn't. Then we can present that to the devs and see what they think.

Do ask questions. I am more than happy to teach anyone that cares how to mod these files to their personal liking. I can also help if this is your first time adding a core mod to the game.

Might want to start on easier settings. The game is so much more challenging now. I may need to think about AI help if it turns out they can't handle the monsters.

60,907 views 132 replies
Reply #26 Top

Hey - I'm partly through my first game and am really liking the base hp buff as well as a lot of the new item and building values.  And the costs in the store are much much better - both buying and selling. I love the additional options on hero level-up - there's always something useful now.

On the not-as-good - is there a way I can reverse the monster lair location change?  I'm playing a large map with dense monsters and there are basically a horde of mites and bandits but almost nothing stronger to really gain xp on.  I've explored half the map and found 2 bone ogres and a slag.  It might be because there are 9 AIs, so there isn't really anywhere far from civilization?  Also, making Tireless March harder to get makes me sad - armies with 2 move are horribly painful.

Thanks for the effort though, the item and hp changes alone make this mod significantly better than the current beta.

Edit: last request - what's the chance it's possible to mod a spell in that summons a level 1 hero?  Or causes a random monster to appear?

Edit #2: It appears that, for quests, there's an element:

<GameModifier>
  <ModType>Map</ModType>
  <Attribute>SpawnMonster</Attribute>
  <Value>1</Value>
  <Unitclass>ClambercoilDragon</Unitclass>
  <Radius>3</Radius>
</GameModifier>

That spawns a monster - what's the chance that's usable as a spell...  Gotta give it a try tomorrow.

And the same for a hero:

<GameModifier InternalName="Reward2">
  <ModType>Unit</ModType>
   <Attribute>UnitJoinArmy</Attribute>
  <StrVal>Champion_Haitan</StrVal>
  <UnitClass>Champion</UnitClass>
</GameModifier>

 

Reply #27 Top

Haha, it definitely works.  I  just surrounded my level 1 sovereign with a few dozen drakes, slags, ravenous harridens, and earth elementals. 

Hero summons works also, very cool.

Reply #28 Top

I didn't get much past a first game. There were a few things I noticed right off the bat:

Champions were everywhere. I suppose you could pick and choose which you wanted, but if you got them all, you would have a hard time leveling any of them. Second, almost all city improvements were prohibitively expensive (>80 turns for a workshop)... It didn't really feel like developing cities was part of the game anymore.

 

Finally, when I tried to restore all of the old data files with your backups, I started games that had no monsters or animals in the world. I'm not sure if there's anything you can do about this, but it's just a heads up.

 

Also, does the hasta weapon work fine without the rest of your mod? Because the lack of a 1h spear really is a glaring error in vanilla.

Reply #29 Top

Hasta works with the standard game. 

The ElementalDefs.xml controls monster spawning. Might want to double check that you have mod file removed and the original in the right folder. 

 

The intent with Workshop was to entice players to go for a 3/4 or even a 2/4 spot with their cities in order to be able to build it at a reasonable speed. The point is that  grain based cities have to wait until the midgame to build it, while a nubile production city could pump it out. There is a better version coming out soon that has a better balance, as I agree that i took it a little too far with the labor costs.

 

The major changes in the next one will be better labor cost balance, new tiles, new citylevelup bonuses, and best of all, a full feature Path system. It there anything else people want to change? Right now I am just hoping to get a new version out by Tue, since the new beta may be pushed back yet again. 

Reply #30 Top

Oh, meant to respond to you sooner, Poko8,

 

You should probably switch to Normal Monster levels or even Sparse if it is too much for you. I actually want to make them spawn more often and balance that with unit production and low early game wages. Not wanting to make it easier, if anything i will just push them farther from your starting location on dense so you have room to breath.

You can spawn a random monster in tactical, but not in strategic. It's a known Bug. I am not a fan of a spell that summons a hero because they are already immortal. I added the heal injury potion to Apothecary though, at a hefty sum of 500 Gildar. Hf and I are working on a full feature summons mod. I don't particularly feel like adding that here in great detail. But we are adding a few interesting summons to the Summoner Traits. That will have to tide you over.

Reply #31 Top

I don't know if "nubile" was the word you were looking for...

Nubile refers to a young woman who is ready or suitable for marriage by virtue of her age or maturity. In recent times it has also been used to refer to a sexually attractive young woman.

Reply #33 Top

Sorry, I wasn't clear - the monsters at the start weren't too much for me, they were too weak.  There were nearly no powerful ones (2 bone ogres and 1 slag, that's all on half the large-sized map), just a ton of weak ones (like hordes of mites).  That ruined my game because my heroes could never level.  Is there an easy way I can go back to the vanilla game's monster spawning?  I don't want them further from my starting location - I want more, closer, harder.  In the game I started it was way too easy to clear them all (dense monsters, hard difficulty).

And as for summoning monsters (actually, more like hunting monsters), I got it working.  I added in a spell (4 spells, varying difficulty) that will cause a random group of monsters to appear near the casting hero.  Not controlled by me or anything, but I didn't want to control them, I wanted to hunt them.  The idea being that, even though the land is more civilized, there are probably still some monsters around if you look. 

Summoning heroes - ya, it's probably OP, but, for my local copy, it'll make the game more fun and I can self-enforce some kind of limit and dying penalty (a unit dies, it gets stuck in retirement in a city or something)

 

 

Reply #34 Top

I see. That was probably just bad luck. The way it is suppose to work is that there are a few easy monsters within 3 tiles of your start. The real baddies start 8 tiles away. Every X number of turns any unclaimed tiles will have a chance to spawn new lairs. I just need to increase the X Value I think. I wish I could set ultimate monsters to block passages so that there are large areas you can't get to until the late game. I will take another look at it today though.

Reply #35 Top

I'm not sure it was bad luck, I started a second game that had even fewer real monsters, just a ton of bandits and mites in 1/4th of the map.  The hardest thing I saw within 40 or 50 squares of my capital was an air elemental.  I reverted the monster spawning code for dense back to vanilla and the monsters are back to normal.  Is there something you're using that says what each field in the xml does?

Reply #36 Top

I think the monster spawns were fine in my small world test out. Some easy but fast spawning sites. Still took a loss of a spear unit to bears. Maul is brutal. I like the boosted hitpoints and I think that is spot on. What I would like to see is the level gains knocked way back. Maybe double hit points after ten or more levels (20 would be nice). Makes no sense to have those growing so fast. People only get so big/tough and D&D is not a system to emulate here. What would be good to see is defense, accuracy and attack getting minor bumps up with level. These are the items that grow with time and training. I also agree that emcumbrance needs to be tweaked. Armours do not slow folks down as much as everyone thinks. I like seeing more champions in the area, but the costing needs a tweak especially if you are running HF's mod that adds traits. I found a Champion wanting over a grand and he was not all that decked out. I think the building times need to get knocked down about 50%. I'm changing my style to be more units and much less buildings since the times are so long.

Other then the tweaks above I'm finding the game to be a hell of a lot more fun and challenging with your mod in place. Great work and keep 'em coming. B)

Reply #37 Top

I think I will make Materials do more production. That is essentially the problem, Grain is just so much better. That should solve many issues. 

Reply #38 Top

I am experimenting with your mod, it's really different in some ways.  Like 60 turns to build a workshop.  Interesting though!

Reply #39 Top

Since we are waiting until the 29th for the next beta, I will be updating this week with a shinier version. 

Reply #40 Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 37
I think I will make Materials do more production. That is essentially the problem, Grain is just so much better. That should solve many issues. 

 

As I pointed out in my taxation thread there is another issue, harder to solve concerning grain vs materials :

Taxation gains only depend on population (income = population*taxation %), but unrest does affect production from material too. A high grain low material city will always be much more efficient taxation wise, because materials provide no taxation benefits at all, but get full unrest malus. 

Reply #41 Top

I have alot of buildings that do +1 Gildar per Material. 

Reply #42 Top

I was thinking about something a bit unthematic, like giving -unrest/material (although you'd probably easily come up with ideas to make this thematic). That would make low tax levels a bit more attractive, and help production cities contribute to taxes without them taking such a big hit in their output.

Reply #43 Top

Ah but the key to ridding a city of Unrest penalties relies on slavery for production. That is where I want Empire to excel. Kingdoms will get better relations and higher research rates to compensate. As soon as we get the Faction Differentiation Beta, we can talk about diversifying for each faction. Until then I have to deal with broad strokes. I wish I knew what the frak they were planning so I could include it in my plans.  :cylon:

Reply #44 Top

New mod is up. This one explores parallel dimension where Brad's passion is gaudy ice shows instead of video game AI. He is actually a decent choreographer. 

[Edit] I put the wrong file in for monster units. Gonna need to add the rest of the units in for Sov Background Traits. Just use Band Lord for now. Not that anyone will see this late on a Saturday.

Reply #45 Top

New new mod is up. I realized I made things unplayable with all the challenging monsters. Now each Sovereign History trait you choose will add some appropriate units to your start. These units cost nothing, but if they die, you will be sitting at home for awhile. I highly recommend using Sparse Monster settings for the first go. If you are thinking of waiting for the next beta instead of playing this mod, don't count on the beta coming out this week. I would bet it comes out later than Thursday.

Reply #46 Top

I added some more interesting starting weapons and armor for version -.41. You may want to get a stronger start if you are planning on playing with Dense Monster Levels. 

Reply #47 Top

No new beta this week, which means more of you have time to try out this mod. I have made a little video for those on the fence about going through the trouble of downloading it.

 

Intro

Reply #48 Top

Are the buld times for structures going to get kicked down? You get 18 turns on the Tower, 30ish on the barracks and then 132 to the other starting buildings. Still seems steep. I'll check out -41 with the free troops, no real way to play even sparse with huge mobs all around me in most settings. I'm also getting quest/hut clusters. 4-6 all bunched up in an area. May be the small map I play on. Some really good stuff. Hope to play a little more toward the weekend.

Reply #49 Top

I have to look at quests again. It seems I set them to bunch up. I may be able to put a minimum distance between them. They are moreso intended to offer diversion in the early game. The enemies are easier in quests.

 

As to build times, they only seem high in the early game. Lumbermill reduces it by 25% and so does Mason. You really want a high Material location for your capital. Otherwise you will want to think about Rush Buying Tower of Dominion to get your population growing. You will notice that growth is very high in our first city. It balances out the high building labor costs by about turn 75. From turn 1 to 75 the focus should be on leveling your starting units to get more Prestige. Admittedly version -5 and -4 were a little shortsighted. -.41 should be much more fun. Having starting units really opens things up. 

 

I wasn't sure anyone else was playing to be honest. Anyone try out the new Sov and Faction creator options? Serpent's pact may be way too good now, but you have to find a Lair for it to work. I am pretty sure there is a way to get +100% value to diplomatic proposals now. That means you can basically end any war and make huge gains in resource trading. I plan on going for a Metal Monopoly in my next game. Right now I am using Warlord in conjunction with Endless Legion to get -80% to unit wages. So much win with a 3/4 starting position next to a forest. Once I got over the hump of building Lumbermill, the production really started flowing. Now things seem almost too cheap. It is a wonderful combination. I think one thing I want to add is a few endgame traits that double labor costs but give a few free levels or maybe some inherent abilities like sweep and true strike. I also need to refit the Sov traits in the beginning to mean something.

I am thinking something like this:

Conqueror: +1 Strength per level, +25% weapon damage. Cost 2.

King of Thieves: +300% Gildar from loot, +2 Accuracy per level. Cost 1

Expert Rider: +2 Moves when mounted, +5 Dodge when mounted. Cost 1.

Weapon Master: +5 Weapon Damage. Cost 1.

Brilliant: +1 Intelligence per level, +10% Research.

Great Leader: -50% cost to hiring costs. Cost 1.

Wealthy: +500 Gildar at start. Cost 1

Ethereal: +10 Initiative. Cost 3.

Pack Horse: +30 Weight Capacity. Cost 1.

Liche: +10 Hp from kills. Cost 1.

Soul Wizard: +10 Mana from kills. Cost 2.

Reply #50 Top

At turn 76 I find myself finally getting to the meat of the building aspect of the game. It is not noticeable, however, due to the rampant creatures I and my marauders have been battling for territory. Act I has never been so immersing! To those that feel the early game is too slow, this shows why it may be slow and how to speed things up. I have designed it so that you have to strive for buildings. It is quite possible to build quickly, but you have to work towards that goal at the expense of other opportunities. 

 

This video may explain things better:

The Middle Early Game