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Fallen Enchantress–March Status

Fallen Enchantress–March Status

Greetings!

March is here! If you’re not in the Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion beta, which starts this week, then you might be interested in what is happening in the world of Elemental. So here is where things stand.

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The Beast Lord has the power to recruit certain monsters in battle

We plan to release the next build in the beta 2 series within the next week or two.  I can’t tell you what will be in it yet. There’s a lot of things that are being worked on at once. Derek and his team have all kinds of diabolical stuff in the works.  A lot of Fall From Heaven players have noticed his influence on the Elemental universe and he’s just getting warmed up.

What I can talk about are the things we’re concentrating on here.

Stability

For most people, stability hasn’t been a major issue. But the game will crash occasionally at some point regardless of how stable it is for you. I can assure you, it will crash some % of the time in Beta 2.  That is because of the migration to a much more heavily threaded architecture.

Most of you have played War of Magic. So you know how much faster and smoother Fallen Enchantress is even on the same hardware. Why? Threading. Lots of them. The more cores you have, the better it gets. And even if you have only 2 cores, it’s still a lot better.

Even as the AI has gotten smarter, the world more complex, the time between turns and performance has improved. This is because of all the threads happening in the background.  But the challenge is making sure those threads are messing with each other’s data at the same time. 

We’ve made great strides here as we’ve nearly finished our migration to the threaded engine update.  We hope this will become apparent in Beta 2-B. However, that said, Beta 2-B will not be rock solid. I’m just warning you now.  It’ll be better than Beta 2 but as we fix problems, we add new ones. It’s for a good cause. Memory optimization is necessary but painful. 

If you’re running a 64-bit version of Windows, you’re already set because Fallen Enchantress will use 4 gigs of memory if it can. So that lets us have more monsters, more players, more everything. But Windows XP users can only see 2 gigs which is why we have to focus on optimization. It’s good to be lean and mean (though my Amiga could do crazy things with 512K of memory).

Balance

Other than making sure the game is reliable for people, balance is our top priority.  Balance can include everything from tweaking numbers to adding new assets.  Making sure that higher level weapons and armor matter a lot more has a huge game play effect.  For example, spears do less damage than they did before and as a result, they’re still good weapons early on or in mass but they’ll get slaughtered by knights. Right now: You can beat the AI by creating cheese spearmen (throw in a few negative traits, get squads and go to town – that’s how I do it anyway).

Similarly, lots of new magic spells are being added to the game which help us make sure that the different paths to victory are distinct, fun, and meaningful.

Diplomacy

This probably won’t make it into the beta 2 series.  But diplomacy is going to get a lot more attention for Beta 3. For example, we are considering an option to let players surrender to you where their sovereign becomes your vassal (they get a negative trait called “broken spirit” that keeps them from being too powerful – last thing we need is players being able to spring Verga on their enemies).  The idea of snooty Procipinee doing my bidding has some appeal.

The Diplomacy screen is likely to change quite a bit from what you see now to provide more information and more opportunities for interesting exchanges between you and your opponents.

Unique Factions & Champions

The champions have been getting a lot of attention. The idea is that each of them should have a fairly unique ability. This way, as you come to know the world, you know that if you get, say Adant Verris, that you’ll be getting Chain Lightning.

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The same goes with factions as we start to incorporate different equipment, traits and such into each of them.  If one faction is largely impervious to archery and you’ve decided to focus having massive archer armies, that may affect your strategy for dealing with them.

We are still playing around with different ideas here.  Unlike with Galactic Civilizations where players (ironically) intuitively understood that shields were effective against beam weapons and armor was a good defense against mass drivers, most people aren’t that familiar with medieval level armor. We’ve grown up thinking that plate male is always the best and you should just toss that on to everything.

The modders…well, the modders are going to go to town on this game.   There was some joking earlier internally about how long it would take someone to make an Alpha Centauri total conversion with this stuff.  Even the “look” of the game is, ultimately, just PNG’s and DDS files.

Art, Music, Animation

Making the world of Elemental a living world is the goal here.

At some level, knowing you will never see this world again is part of the appeal. Randomly generated worlds mean you don’t know what’s going to happen. 

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Don’t judge me. So yea, I name my monsters.

Keyboard

Maybe I’m just old but I want to be able to navigate more with the keyboard.  This is an area we’re starting to put more attention to. Not just in terms of hot keys but just general navigation through the game.  Fallen Enchantress is a game that you “might” play 10 hours straight. So less forced mouse moving = better as far as we’re concerned.

AI

This is something we will constantly be improving on. Every day I play the game, I find something.

For example, today I was able to find out why the AI wasn’t taking over monster lairs. They’re “goodie huts” but they’re a special kind which the AI couldn’t “see”.  Another little thing I found was that once the AI merged armies into army groups, it wasn’t treating nearby units as anything worth considering. So you could walk by a bunch of enemy armies safely because it didn’t think it was worth bothering with something so little – as you then went and conquered its city. 

Then in tactical battles we fixed a problem where some of the more powerful spells weren’t used because they’re classified differently so again, the AI couldn’t “see” those spells.

Plus, there’s no substitute for play testing and refining.

The next beta will probably lower the default AI difficulty to easy instead of normal because if you’re just learning the game, normal now will destroy the average player.

What’s next

We really hope you guys are enjoying the beta as much as we are having making it.

223,139 views 100 replies
Reply #51 Top

In the balance category, it's a little strange that there is no running/hiding from archers, and thus no strategy involved in the tactical battles involving archers. The infinite range and shooting over hills without a penalty makes battles frustrating and unfun.

 

I then made a game where I just massed archers and plinked enemy units apart with slow/haste and pretty much wrecked everything. Satisfying I guess, but still not really fun.

 

Maybe it is time to put in range/terrain penalties for ranged attacks?

Reply #52 Top

There is a certain amount of disbelief in Elemental battles. The battle in reality would take place on much larger fields of battle. Archers would start shooting from much farther away. In Elemental there seems to be a certain level of honorable warfare code. Units get very close and wait for both sides to be ready. The effect is that archers are always within range. Giving a shorter range limit would really bother me. Even a crossbow has 100+ yards of range. So if I am within 50ft of my enemy, I need to be able to hit anyone.

I would balance the need to add some tactics to archery target choice by adding some levels of Air Dodge and Accuracy to each tile. High ground, behind trees, getting stuck in a swamp, being in a valley should all affect how effective archers are. Then, as Heavenfall has demonstrated is possible, you could give units adjacent to other units a slight dodge bonus, where Tower Shield greatly increases this bonus. 

But honestly I would rather other elements of the game be prioritized before this is dealt with. 

Reply #53 Top

In Fall From Heaven 2, one of the best things is how customized the races are.

The Sheaim (pyre zombies) play much different from the Luchuirp (golems), who are much different from the Kuriotates (centaurs), and so on.. and then throw in a choice of religions (Octopus Overlords?  Ashen Veil?), even more so.  The units, leaders, spells, tactics, heroes, and behavior are all different; they don't feel (or play) like generic opponents or armies.  

Is it possible to reach a similar level of differentiation in FE as in FFH2?

Reply #54 Top

Quoting BlackTaco, reply 53
In Fall From Heaven 2, one of the best things is how customized the races are.

The Sheaim (pyre zombies) play much different from the Luchuirp (golems), who are much different from the Kuriotates (centaurs), and so on.. and then throw in a choice of religions (Octopus Overlords?  Ashen Veil?), even more so.  The units, leaders, spells, tactics, heroes, and behavior are all different; they don't feel (or play) like generic opponents or armies.  

Is it possible to reach a similar level of differentiation in FE as in FFH2?

 

Well, 6 of the ten factions are white humans, what do you think?

Reply #56 Top

Yea, a little slow.  but how many different ideas (abilities, spells, etc) are they going to pull out of their asses for 6 white European based factions?  Not like the question "How can we make Elves faction different from dwarfs?" that would be easier than "How do we make these guys, who look just like these other guys, seem very different?

Reply #57 Top

Quoting Lord, reply 54


Well, 6 of the ten factions are white humans, what do you think?

Was that sarcasm? 

I know they haven't done as much as they need to do with differentiation yet, but surely you don't think that what the factions look like is the solution or even an obstacle to fixing the problem.

Reply #58 Top

Things to make factions more unique:

  • Unique spells restricted to certain factions.
  • Special, other species (ie, species other than the faction) units that provide something unique. There is no point in giving a faction a unique unit that just appears unique - it must provide some unique ability or mechanic.
  • Meaningful bonuses: for example, trogs could ignore 50% of blunt damage.
  • Unique game mechanics. One faction has no use for gold, another faction cannot mine crystals, etc etc.
Reply #59 Top

I do think it is a part of the problem of why they don't feel like different factions.  I think it's far more difficult to make factions seem different if they are thematically and visually nearly the same.  Making them "feel" like different factions, starts with them actually being different.  Looking different is a good place to start.  Will adding different tech trees, abilities, etc help.  Sure.  But it's only half the problem.

Reply #60 Top

Adding a banner to each army would be sufficient. The rest needs to be mechanically different. Save the Redguards and Kajiits for the expansion.

Reply #61 Top

Well, I'm really not saying lets turn factions into cat-people, but I'm saying it's something difficult to do when your factions start off pretty similar.  

 

If I said, lets design ssome special abilities for our five races.  I want you to think about new techs, abilities, weapons, spells, buildings, etc and I gave you the following list of five races

Light Elves, Dark Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Humans

 

You could probably do it better than if I gave you the list of 

Generic European humans, Miner European humans, Merchant European humans, Mage European humans, and Warrior European humans.

Reply #62 Top

The champions have been getting a lot of attention. The idea is that each of them should have a fairly unique ability. This way, as you come to know the world, you know that if you get, say Adant Verris, that you’ll be getting Chain Lightning.

Solmyr!

Some hero related quests to unlock unique traits/spells/artifacts would be great

Reply #63 Top

Quoting Lord, reply 59
I do think it is a part of the problem of why they don't feel like different factions.  I think it's far more difficult to make factions seem different if they are thematically and visually nearly the same.  Making them "feel" like different factions, starts with them actually being different.  Looking different is a good place to start.  Will adding different tech trees, abilities, etc help.  Sure.  But it's only half the problem.

"White humans" cannot be used as reason for not being able to get faction differentiaton. Humans in this world (the real one, aka Earth) provide a good example of "faction differentiation".

Reply #64 Top

"For most people, stability hasn’t been a major issue."

 

Well, I'm glad to hear that most people don't have a problem with stability, but I do. The game crashes often, mostly in battles or reloads.

 I have updated my video driver. What else can I do to minimize crashes?

 

Windows 7 premium, i7-920, 12 gb ram, 100gb free memory, and a Radeon 4850 (1GB)

Reply #65 Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 63

Quoting Lord Xia, reply 59I do think it is a part of the problem of why they don't feel like different factions.  I think it's far more difficult to make factions seem different if they are thematically and visually nearly the same.  Making them "feel" like different factions, starts with them actually being different.  Looking different is a good place to start.  Will adding different tech trees, abilities, etc help.  Sure.  But it's only half the problem.

"White humans" cannot be used as reason for not being able to get faction differentiaton. Humans in this world (the real one, aka Earth) provide a good example of "faction differentiation".

 

It's not a reason why they can't, it's a reason as why its more difficult.  Are Americans, Canadians, British, Australians different from each other?  Absolutely.  Are Israeli, Ukrainians, Cherokee, Bantu, and Japanese far more different from each other?  Hell yes.  

Reply #66 Top

Quoting Lord, reply 61
I'm really not saying lets turn factions into cat-people

I do: "Let's turn factions into cat-people"!  :pout:

Reply #67 Top

Not wanting to beat this to death, but FFH2 had multiple non-human races (Golems, Vampires, Centaurs, + the more standard dwarfs/elf varieties + humans that were very different - tricksters, berserkers, etc) that were all very different... take N races * M very different religions -> many combinations with lots of re-playability.

If the main races are all human, and vary mostly on spells, they still won't be greatly differentiated.   How about some far-out races like lizard people?  intelligent fungus colonizing the world?  magical mutants scarred by the cataclysm?  in addition to the standard Tolkien races.

I'm hoping as the game progresses, the races will be more differentiated and variable-

... and cat people are good too :-)










Reply #68 Top

Seems every fantasy or sci-fi genre has to create animal people after they tire of elves.  And Cat-people and Lizard-people seem the most common.  

Reply #69 Top

The difference here is customizable units. They would have to make custom animations, and armor for all those races. That's the limit here. Every new race that isn't humanoid would require it's own special textures and models for every single piece of armor in the game. Including all the champion armors you can find, that is a lot of unique armors. That is a lot of work so that you can have kitty ears or lizard heads on a race.

How exactly would you equip fungus with weapons and armor?

Reply #70 Top

Fungus people kill with mind-bullets.

Reply #71 Top

Quoting geosch, reply 64
"For most people, stability hasn’t been a major issue."

 

Well, I'm glad to hear that most people don't have a problem with stability, but I do. The game crashes often, mostly in battles or reloads.

 I have updated my video driver. What else can I do to minimize crashes?

 

Windows 7 premium, i7-920, 12 gb ram, 100gb free memory, and a Radeon 4850 (1GB)

 

The best thing you can do is go get those crash reports and post them in the support forum (labeled [Crash]) or send them to stardock via mail, this way they can fix it.

Reply #72 Top

On the stability issue, I don't have crashes or anything that I know how to properly report, but I do get massive game-ending slowdown often enough that I can't really play the game into the second act.

Quoting relmich, reply 43
That screen you show where you are selecting your sovereign, is that currently in Beta 2 (0.86)?  My selection screen looks much different.  I really like the look of the one you show.
I had that problem too. I think it happened because I skipped .85 and went straight to .86. I couldn't find the .85 patch on the site so I solved it by downloading the full install rather than the patch and reinstalling the same thing.
Quoting seanw3, reply 52
There is a certain amount of disbelief in Elemental battles. The battle in reality would take place on much larger fields of battle. Archers would start shooting from much farther away. In Elemental there seems to be a certain level of honorable warfare code. Units get very close and wait for both sides to be ready. The effect is that archers are always within range. Giving a shorter range limit would really bother me. Even a crossbow has 100+ yards of range. So if I am within 50ft of my enemy, I need to be able to hit anyone.
Keep in mind there is no official scale to the tiles. Each tile could be considered 100+ yards by itself.

I would balance the need to add some tactics to archery target choice by adding some levels of Air Dodge and Accuracy to each tile. High ground, behind trees, getting stuck in a swamp, being in a valley should all affect how effective archers are. Then, as Heavenfall has demonstrated is possible, you could give units adjacent to other units a slight dodge bonus, where Tower Shield greatly increases this bonus.
Yeah, a lot more relevant terrain would make archery far more interesting.

Reply #73 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 50

Quoting Tasunke, reply 49So in beta 2 ... it said rediculous had the best AI.

Is this true?

Or will we still get our "best AI" in Challenging? (at least in beta 2 B )

Challenging is the Best AI without the AI getting bonuses.

 

In the game it says normal is the option for this? Did this change but not get updated on the tooltip?

Reply #74 Top


Great work.

On armour, plate armour *is* the best armour you can get.  The only reason to take lighter armour is for difficult terrain.  Wearing heavier armour is tiring and your vision and hearing may be restricted.

You could represent this in game with plater having more encumberance, reducing initiative and accuracy.  If you add terrain effects on tactical battlefields, you're on to a winner!  Plate troops would flounder in the soft ground of swamps.

For my tastes, the more grounded in some real principles a fantasy setting is, the better.  I suppose the whole model of WoM from the start was never like that, with it being a separate technology to make maces and swords. Oh well...  I really hope we don't see weird perceptions of what different kinds of armour do in the game.  Ever seen a suit of 16th century plate? The knowledge and smithing skill is simply amazing; and those armours are almost impervious to attacks.

Cheers,

Sword

Reply #75 Top

Quoting Lord, reply 61
Well, I'm really not saying lets turn factions into cat-people, but I'm saying it's something difficult to do when your factions start off pretty similar.  

 

If I said, lets design ssome special abilities for our five races.  I want you to think about new techs, abilities, weapons, spells, buildings, etc and I gave you the following list of five races

Light Elves, Dark Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Humans

 

You could probably do it better than if I gave you the list of 

Generic European humans, Miner European humans, Merchant European humans, Mage European humans, and Warrior European humans.

 

This post is pretty amazing, and unfortunately right on. I would love to see how exactly we're going to distinguish these races such that a casual player, just starting up the game, will instantly recognize that other races are significantly different. It's no easy task, because as was mentioned prior, we don't even have real-world civs to relate to. Just a bunch of humans. We can't even say that one race consists of blondes, another redheads, etc. And 10% bonuses here and there don't make a perceivable difference in gameplay.