[Feedback][.77] Level Abilities

I think precision and true strike are either both useful or both useless, because they increase the chance of hitting the target.

You missed the bit about true strike ignoring defense.

Assassins are all about accuracy. It is their main stat. Critical is their secondary. A guaranteed hit is an excellent counter to many spells and units with a very high dodge. Unfortunately, accuracy goes up with every level where dodge does not. This is making Assassins useless.

That is a bug.

Yep and thats the reason why i think precision and true strike are useless at higher levels.

Vital Strike should increase the critical hit chance by 5, 10 and 15 % instead of increasing the critical hit chance and the critical damage.

Path of the Governor: +1 to Prestige. 

This Path is not ideal for any hero. It would be fine as a supplement to a severely injured hero, but I would be crazy to specialize in this Path. There are not nearly enough benefits.

Administrator I: -10% Construction time for buildings. 

Administrator II: -10% Construction time for buildings. 

Administrator III: -10% Construction time for buildings, units and city maintenance.

This is fine as a trait. It has a good flow. I do think that only a 10% bonus is a little small. Given how long takes to level these units, the bonus should be 25%. Admin III is very weak for an endgame trait.

Loremaster I: +1 to Research.

I am sure the devs know this by now, but +1 to Research is a drop in the bucket. Even with the +2,+3 additions from the II,III levels is not a significant boost to the speed of technology. +10% to city or faction is more appropriate. Maybe unlock a random unique tech would be a good trait to add for Loremasters. Not much else to say, except that this must have been written up early in the dev process and was never balanced as the game changed. 

Merchant I-III: +2,+3,+4 Gildar per turn. (Stacks)

This is a nice beginning trait to get. It allows rapid expansion and adequate defense. Once again I feel the later traits, II and III, are a little weak. Either a higher bonus, lower city maintenance, or a percent bonus for the later traits would be nice. 

That is all there is? We need this Path to be as desirable as any other Path. It stops short in the early game, leaving the hero to hope for another Path. There is so much that can be done for this Path. It is really the most unique Class, only viable in a TBSRPG. It should be the best Path for a player that wants to focus on strategy over tactics. I should be able to have a Kingdom full of Governors, giving me Loremasters, Inventors, Engineers, Merchants, and Farmers instead of fighters and mages.

I would normally chalk these ideas up to suggestions that can be modded in after release, but this one is a make or break for the game. It needs to be balanced with the rest of the game. It is an important part of the strategy aspect of the game. 

I would agree with your analysis.  I'm happy to hire a hero with this trait, but I have not seen enough benefit to spend a level up on it.

Defender Traits:

Path of the Defender: +6 to Strength, +2 to Constitution.

There is a good opportunity to add a per level bonus to Paths. A +1 per 2 levels or +2 per 3 levels would give a better progression to heroes. That would free up later traits to give actual abilities, instead of incremental stat gains. I would also give every Path a special ability. For Defender: 10% chance to stun enemy when attacked. (Requires Shield)

Counterattack: +1 Counterattack per round. 

Starting off on a high note. Counterattacks are rare and valuable. This is great way to implement them. I would like to see higher level paths, like Swashbuckler and Swordsaint, offer more counterattacks, but defender is just right with only one. Kudos.

Dodge I-III: +2,4,6 to Dodge. 

This is a great progression trait. Each level makes the hero significantly more difficult to hit. But, since Accuracy increases with every level, it only matters against units of the same level. IMO high level units already have a massive advantage against lower level units. Why make them hit every time as well? I like this trait, but I think it should be taken away from Defender and given to Assassin. Defenders should rely on defense and constitution. Dodging is for lightly armored units, not plate clad tanks. I would replace this with bonuses against damage types. Maybe even some special abilities against much larger forces. 

Endurance: +4 Constitution.

A decent trait. Hp is a complicated calculation, but this seems a nice boost to health. I would rather it be a +2 per 3 level bonus so it doesn't fall flat at higher levels, but I could be misunderstanding the system. 

Guardian I-III: +1,2,3 to Dodge for all units in army.

This is a good trait, but once again is not well suited for Defender. This would be better for a Path of the General. As I said before, only one unit can ever give these bonuses to the army and he has to be the highest level unit. With all three you are getting +6 to Dodge which is great if Accuracy didn't skyrocket by the time you had all three traits. Hope that gets changed.

Spell Resistance: +3 to Spell Resistance.

Not much of a defense against the dark arts. This will stop a 3rd level mage from slowing you, but other than that it is not a great choice. I may be pushing the envelope, but Path of the Paladin should be what a Defender levels up to in order to defend against magic; as I defined in my chart in the OP. This trait fits better in the generic pool as it is pretty common in quality. 

The question I have is how should a defender function? The bonuses are all over the place. Dodge is better suited to rogues, Spell Resistance would make more sense for mages. Constitution and Defense bonuses are perfect for this type of unit. Defenders should be excellent tanks. They should be able to control the middle of the field without dying right away. Counterattacking and blocking is what a Defender should do. This isn't the worst Path, but it is a little under-directed. It needs more abilities and bonuses to the core defense stats. 

I too never choose Gambler's Strike, but I did find a champ who had it already in one game. It wasn't bugged in the sense that it caused a crash, but I never saw it achieve more than normal damage. Gambler's strike first turn = 8 dmg, normal attack second turn = 8 dmg. I had similar results the other half-dozen times I used it.

One general thing that I will say about the traits is that, as implemented, Discipline (+1 str/lvl) and Brilliance (+1 int/lvl) are OP to the point that I always choose the Warrior path or Mage path (whenever latent spellcasting ability is present) for all of my champs. I've played Assassin, Governor, and Defender paths as well, but always as a secondary/tertiary choice at high level, or because the champs came with it when recruited.

You are misunderstanding the system. Endurance falls flat at early levels, not later on. A +x/xlevel bonus to endurance would be a very bad idea. If you get the chance to equip the 'champion' armor that gives +1/level constitution you will see what I mean. Endurance should come with a flat hp bonus to make it useful earlier in the game as well as bonus constitution.

In any case, this was a decent write up. I'm going to wait to see what changes they make to the battle system before putting out recommendations. If accuracy increases per level then dodge is pointless and accuracy bonuses are pointless for anything but low leveled champions/units. If champions use singular attacks then critical chance needs to be much higher or you will never obtain the average. In addition if champions only ever use one attack then their primary damage dealing stat must increase at a significant rate or they will fall behind, unless they recieve proportional intiative bonuses.

This is all assuming that things won't change though. I think it is too early to start re-writing ability lists that may be shelved as unusuable due to future balance/combat changes.

Ya, constitution already scales with level inherently, 10 constitution at level 1 gives less hitpoints than it does at level 2.

The formula for hp bonus from constitution: (( UnitStat_Constitution * level * 0,3) + 3)

Exactly. We would be crazy not to. This is why they should be changed to +1 per 2 levels and 2 per 3 levels. They should also think about attaching all per level bonuses to Path of the X's and then making most of those mutually exclusive. It is too hard to balance the Paths when you have to assume that any two can combine. 

Then static bonuses are fine. Maybe Defender should get +6 Constitution, +2 Armor per 3 levels.

I think spell resistance is as useless at higher levels as precision, because the spell mastery scales with the level, but the spell resistance does not scale with the level.

It may well be something that needs to be considered - scaling dodge with level (via dexterity), and scaling spell resistance with level.

Hmm.

Lore Master I - +2 research

Lore Master II - +10% research

Lore Master III + 15% research -> Unlocks the techs for Library of Awesome and Arcane Library of awesome.

Inventor I - 5% cheaper weapons+armor techs

Inventor II- 5% cheaper weapons + armor techs, +5% research

Inventor III - +10% research, Unlocks the techs for Gyrocopter and "early Chinese" rocket launcher

Farmer I - +1 grain in city

Farmer II- +1 grain in city, +5 gildar

Farmer III- +1 grain in city, +10% gildar (in city)

Merchant I - +2 gildar

Merchant II- +3 gildar, +10% gildar in city

Merchant III- +5 gildar, +20% gildar in city

-

Administrator I - -10% contruction(t) for buildings, -10% city maintenance (in city)

Administrator II- -10% construction(t) for buildings, -10% city maintenance(in city), +1 materials

Administrator III- -20% construction(t) for buildings, -20% city maintenance(in city), +X 'happy'?*(in city), +10% gildar in city

*+X happy should allow the taxes to go up a level or two without production falling off.

Quartermaster I - -1% maintenance for all units, -10% construction(t) for units in city

Quartermaster II- -2% maintenance for all units, -15% construction(t) for units in city

Quartermaster III- -2% maintenance for all units, units constructed in city have better training (extra level or two?)

After a bit of thought I have two main issues with the current level-up/trait system. 

Accuracy gained per level by every hero and traits granting bonuses to base attributes.

Starting with the latter, I feel that it would serve the game best to not allow heroes to gain or lose base attributes through level-up bonuses, traits, or injuries.  This would help mitigate effects like always choosing a certain attribute increase because it will positively effect X number of combat stats so it's always the best choice scenarios.  With balanced mana costs, attribute affecting spells are fine but alternatives like affecting combat stats should always be explored first if possible.

That being said, I feel that the accuracy per level business for all hero classes is a bit off.  No other stat but HP is gained on a per level basis*, and level based Accuracy gain just seems to break the game from about the early-mid-game on, because Dodge is no match for Accuracy at this point.  Maybe something like

Path of the Assassin: +1 Acc per level

Path of the Defender: +1 Dod per level

Path of the Warrior: +1 Att per level

Path of the Magi: +1 Spell Power per level

should be implemented.  It seems like this might help to make other stats, especially Dodge in this case, more viable.  Then if they decided to flesh out the trait system a bit more, from Path of the Warrior could come

Path of the Ranger: +1 Acc per level (-current level), +1 sight

for instance.

*: Not sure if I like this "D&D HP system" or not.  I will think on it and perhaps post some ideas later.

I agree in concept, but 1 per level is a dangerous slope. 1 per 2 or 3 levels would be a better balance. It is hard to say because regular troops have such low stats. 

There needs to be stat bonuses, but the trick is to have enough abilities and spellbooks so that stats are not the best choice for every levelup. Also, there needs to be prereqs for the most important stuff so that Paths feel unique. Then Paths need to be balanced for exclusivity. Defender and Warrior is just too strong. 

I for one definitely like the current "DnD HP system" where HP increases per level (even if constitution does not increase).

as far as stat increases go ...

perhaps 3 basic combat paths

Theif, Soldier, and Mage

Theif can split into Assassin (accuracy) or Acrobat (dodge)

Soldier can split into Guardsman (Defense) or Warrior/Fighter(Attack)

Mage can split into  Wizard/Sorcerer (Magical Power) ... and Sage/Druid/Warlock (Magical Defense)

Theif skills specialize in critical attacks, and possibly an element of stealth (a skill like 'bounty hunter' for extra gold from kills/combat)

Soldier skills specialize in 'mundane' combat

Mage skills specialize in various things of magical importance (like spell ability, summon strength, channeling of magic, and production of magic)

-> maybe a theif can pick a few Acrobat levels and a few Assassin levels, but cannot pick levels from the Mage or Soldier classes.

Perhaps +1 accuracy per Assassin level and +1 dodge per Acrobat level.

That way, you could either go all Acc or all Dodge, or do a hybrid of the two (instead of making it a flat +1 every 2 levels, and allowing both at the same time).

I think this would be better. The question is if it is possible

(you can only cross-class within your path, and cannot take skills from other paths)

So instead of a level 8 Hero of the Assassin Path ... You could have an Assassin4, Acrobat4 Hero of the Thief Path, or an Assassin8 Hero of the Thief path, or an Acrobat Hero of the Thief path, etc.

as far as skills, you could either have all thief skills available by pure thief level, or you could have skills requiring (assassin5) or (assassin2 acrobat2) or (acrobat5)

->each time you level, if you have chosen a martial path, you can take a level in either subset of your martial path, and get the bonus for that subset only (ie +1 Acc or +1 Dodge)

and yes ... I agree that perhaps stats other than HP could upgrade with level (but slower than the bonuses that you get from your given path).

And you could have Thief skills that increase Attack, or Soldier skills that increase dodge, but it would not be a level based bonus, or at least not as powerful as the base (+1 stat) that you get when taking a 'class level'.

*Perhaps when the Champion is created the Path is already chosen, or you could choose the path as soon as you get them. Either way, I think the Path system could be an intrinsic part of the Champion/Sov, as opposed to something chosen at level X.

at least, that might have to be the case if each level you choose which bonus you will get.

Regulars will never be, and should not ever be, as good as heroes.  The numbers I present are intended purely for demonstration, and are not meant to be taken literally, but I don't see what the problem with each class gaining +1 whatever per level is when we already have the egregious effect of *every* class gaining +1 accuracy per level, in addition to +X hp per level.

No, there don't need to be stat bonuses.  Stats will always be the best choice at level up unless either multiple combat stats a presented in a single trait, combat stat bonuses are presented in a +X% manner, or seriously *interesting* abilities are unlocked in a trait.  But if all three of these things were to be implemented, ability stat bonuses would become unnecessary anyway, making the entire argument moot.

Warrior Traits: 

Path of the Warrior: +6 Strength, +2 Dexterity.

There is a good opportunity to add a per level bonus to Paths. A +1 per 2 levels or +2 per 3 levels would give a better progression to heroes. That would free up later traits to give actual abilities, instead of incremental stat gains. I would also give every Path a special ability. For Warrior: Flurry: +2 to Initiative, -50% Accuracy.

Bloodthirsty: +25% vs damaged enemies.

A nice trait. It offers a bonus that adds some interesting choices to combat. This is a keeper. 

Crushing Blow: +50% Attack, lose all Dodge next round.

On paper this ability looks good. You trade Dodge on the next turn to get extra damage on this turn. The Problem is that 50% attack to one unit is not that useful compared to most other abilities and they don't have a trade off. The best abilities will scale with level as this one does with damage, but one would only use this if one is fighting units that either are too weak for their attacks to matter, or the hero has very little dodge to begin with. Given the number of abilities that a Warrior has, this one is quickly tossed aside in almost every case in favor of something better. It also means not getting to use any special attacks a weapon confers. Maul is infinitely better and will always be preferred. I might change this one to do double damage and take away Initiative for one round. That way you are choosing to quickly kill a powerful enemy, but are taken out of the fight until you recover. This could also be the source of a new trait for Assassins: Critical Strike: Guaranteed Crit with +50% Crit damage, lose all Dodge for next round. Since Dodge is primarily how an Assassin stays alive, it offers a better tactical choice. 

Discipline: +1 Strength per level. 

You can guess what I think of this one. Too much Strength in the late game. Lower it to +1 per 2 levels and make it part of a Path trait for Warriors. You should want to avoid making traits that are so good it is not a choice, but an imperative. You could make each spell free and I would still rather have Discipline. It's so much better than everything else. It is also important to make sure this kind of trait is mutually exclusive with any others that are similar. It's the only way to prevent unjustly created god units. That should take more than 20 levels to get to. 

Double Strike: Attack twice at -4 Accuracy. 

This is a good idea, but needs to be implemented better. -4 Accuracy only matters to low level units. If the design is to give an extra attack to high level units, make a trait that gives +2 Initiative. If this trait is supposed to offer the chance to attack twice with a high chance to miss, make the Accuracy a percentage reduction. -33% would make sense. That way you still have a decent chance to hit, but you would only use this on targets with low dodge. I assume that is the design.

Leadership I-III: +1,2,3 to Accuracy for all units in army.

This is not a good trait. Accuracy is currently set up to give high level units the ability to wreck any lower level units. I hope that changes as hp alone does this quite well. Accuracy is not important enough for just one point to make a difference. Even with +6 you are not going to do much more in the endgame, where this trait is generally chosen. Even then, units either have way more or way less than the enemy according to level. I also think that Warriors don't really fit as leaders. Even if you disregard that, this kind of trait only applies when the hero is the highest level unit in the army. That will not usually be the case due to low Intelligence and thus XP. I would suggest making a Path of the General for this type of bonus. And even then you would need to either change the Accuracy level bonus or make this a +1 per level for every unit in army trait. 

Rage: +5 to Strength and Dexterity when under 50% hp. 

I like this trait, but it doesn't fit the title. This trait speaks to survival instincts. Rage is something worked up inside the hero, causing an adrenaline rush and tapping into his animistic instincts during a battle. I think there is room for both. Renaming this one Flight or Fight would be more appropriate as it has to do with panic more than anger. I set up my rage to like this: Rage: +6 Initiative for 2 rounds, -25% to Dex, Str, Int after effect. That way rage is more like a frenzy of attacks that wears out the hero after the adrenaline subsides. I think there is room for both and would be fine with calling mine Barbarian's Rage, just want to present an alternative. 

Tactician: +1 to Initiative for all units in army.

Once again the question of whether or not these abilities are supposed to only work for the leader of the army. Warriors will rarely be the highest level unit. A Path of the General makes more sense for this trait. There is also alot of Initiative being thrown around. This should be a stat that is closely watched so as to avoid letting units to get too many attacks. High Initiative should be something earned over a very long game. Right now it is handed out too often. +1 Initiative is a huge boon. Total Initiative for a Path should not be overly high unless it is a specialization of a specific Path. For instance, it makes sense for Slayers and Barbarians to have alot, but Knights and Paladins would be much slower. That's how I would balance it anyways.

Overall this is the best Path simply due to the Strength bonuses. Strength needs balance. This Path needs to have more abilities. I have several that would be great here. I also think this is a great Path that should lead to several new Paths at later levels. There is alot of room to make interesting Paths and this seems like a good starting point. Some of these traits need to be made in a Path of the General that can focus on Intelligence and bonuses to the whole army. It doesn't work to have Warriors lead an army as that would prevent us from having good mages in the army as well.

Another option with traits like this one is that they might include a "from this level on" option.

+1 Str per level - ([level trait was chosen] - 1)

Not sure if we can calculate in that tag. It is a simple <perlevel>1</perlevel> tag. You could ask HF. 

No, I'm pretty sure it can't currently be done.  The devs would have to implement it.

hmm.

Can the per level tag only take integers? A <perlevel>0.5<perlevel> might be nice