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[eWIP] Connecting Paths

[eWIP] Connecting Paths

Traits are largely the best part of the game right now. Leveling is fun. This is why every game you play nowadays uses it.  There will obviously be more content added to traits as we get closer to a finished product. What I want is to give the devs my vision of where I see traits headed. Right now they are fun, but not particularly well balanced. Many common traits are undesirable unless I roll all common traits and have to pick the least worst. This makes the mechanic less fun. The Path of [Class] traits are the best traits one can get. Granted these are rare and granted you generally only get two per hero by level 15. But the problem is that these traits don't feel connected enough to the traits they unlock. We also need a better description of what each Path is specializing in. (Also, in the XML I get a rarity of 5, but seem to always get them on my first level. How do I set traits to do that?)

 

Right now I know that Path of the Mage will let me cast more powerful offense spells and lower the cost. That is the best Path because it feels specific and useful. Path of the Assassin, Defender and Attacker are okay as they give tactics to the player to fight different kinds of enemies. They need a little more content before they are going to seem very different from each other. Assassin is just weaker due to lack of strength bonuses. Path of the Governor is not really that useful. The problem is that too much of what I get after choosing a path feels random. I may be a mage and get +10 Initiative on the first round, breaking the Blizzard and Fireball spells and causing a win button. I might also get +2 to Constitution, which is totally useless to a Mage and arguably any other Class. Because most of the traits have no prerequisite, it feels more like feeding time than level progression. I am just going for whatever is there. For traits to be at their best, they need to have a measure of progression, connecting them to the choices made in previous levels. Afterall, leveling is a mechanic that simulates getting better at what you are training in. Traits are essentially the products of that training. 

 

A more interesting way to handle what traits pop up when I level would be to make the system less random, while preserving the thrill and disappointment of randomness. I propose you increase the number of traits that pop up to at least 8. If at every 3 levels I made a class choice, and every choice opened up new random traits for my next 2 levels, I would start to feel as if I was making progress. My hero would start to feel more like a character. I need the option to cross to a new path, choose a new specialization within my current path, continue in the specialization I last chose, get a random trait, or get a rare path or specialization trait. Here is a rough idea of what it would look like for specializing:

Chart of Basic Progression.

 

I like getting some randoms and I like getting traits in my path or in this proposal, specializations. If i could choose a new specialization every three turns, I could have some levels focus on using the class progress I have, and others choosing a new area to focus on. If each specialization offered 4 traits, I would have some real class choices to make. Let alone if I somehow get a random rare trait from randomness that I choose over one of the 4. Now Paths feel unique. Heroes have solid classes. Randomness is preserved, lending to replayability. 

36,133 views 66 replies
Reply #51 Top

So assassins are naturally immune to the Smoke penalty? That's fine with me, it just didn't seem clear in the post.

Reply #52 Top

Thanks, I sometimes forget to be clear with what I am thinking. Keep in mind the numbers are just  guess to have my intended effects. Smoke Bomb would likely come at level 8.

In a smoke bomb situation: 

-Regular troops are screwed

-Lower level heroes would be at a large disadvantage

-Heroes of the same level but not specialized in a roguish path are at a disadvantage

-Roguish heroes, like Assassins, at the same level are at some disadvantage, but can take advantage of the situation.

-Roguish heroes at a higher level are not that phased by smoke, having trained with it for years.

 

The coolest thing ever would be to have an Air spell be able to counter this. I am not hopeful of that being possible. 

Reply #53 Top

Rogue -> Assassin -> (either Shadow Dancer or Marksman)

Assassins use both Blades and Bows effectively ...

Marksman would be the ultimate Bow specialization (from a rogue perspective)

Shadow Dancer would use stealth and teleportation magic to aid in their "Bladed" abilities.

 

So Shadow Dancer is Magic and Melee +, while Marksman is Ranged ++

 

Possible abilities of the Shadow Dancer could be

-> Shadow Step ( while invisible, teleport to any tile on the battle-map. You become revealed post-teleportation)

-> Shadow Blend (become invisible)

-> Shadow Strike (an attack while invisible. possibly some added bonus, like extra damage or a guaranteed critical)

 

Marksman Abilities

-> Steady Aim (guaranteed hit, no critical chance)

-> Trick Shot (less accuracy, but if hits its a critical with 50% extra crit damage)

-> Disarming Shot (less accuracy, either reduces target's initiative or unequip's their weapon temporarily)

Reply #54 Top

For smoke bomb you should look at the stinking mud spell. It allows you to set particles effects and modifiers to tiles. Then you could have the tiles hit by the smoke bomb stay smokey for several turns and effect anyone who stands in the smoke.

Reply #55 Top

Great Idea. I will look at that.

Reply #56 Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 53
Rogue -> Assassin -> (either Shadow Dancer or Marksman)

 

I was thinking the same thing. Did you notice that when you click on the chart in the OP there is a sheet 2 option in the top left corner.

I haven't set any of that in stone yet or anything, I am just thinking about connections. I like Shadow Dancer alot. I have already slated Marksman though.

Archer-->Marksman-->Sniper  

and

Archer-->Hunter-->Ranger

I need to be careful with making a distinction between archers and melee so that the AI can use them. I group them as such:

Archer Only Paths- These have bonuses coming from mostly arrows and can do some interesting things with stats to make archers better.

Archer and Melee Paths- These are set up so that the AI may randomly choose either archery or melee and still be able to use every ability. This means no arrow abilities. There will be a strong emphasis on avoiding strength bonuses so that it won't matter which weapon is chosen. All additions to damage come from crits.

Melee Only Paths- These can have strength bonuses as the AI will not likely choose archery. That is assuming the AI is smart about equipping. 

Reply #57 Top

I just found out that crits work differently than I thought. Apparently they do not ignore armor. The attack needs to roll 10 more on the accuracy roll and then make the crit roll. Then the max damage is multiplied by the crit multiplier. So I will have to alter many of these Paths to have high accuracy to be able to crit alot. They will also need outright attack bonuses for it to mean anything. That is, unless the accuracy per level is dropped and Dex is used to increase bow damage. Until then, I will assume the same system. 

Reply #58 Top

could you make a trait which makes crits ignore armor?

Reply #59 Top

Yes, but that trait or even weapon would be superseded by any use of an ability. So the ability Critical Strike would not be able to ignore armor, but a regular shot could. It would be too hard to balance this way.

Reply #60 Top

then tie ignore armor to abilities rather than traits ... the ability to make certain abilities (ie, a critical attack which ignores armor) which can affect armor in various ways can expand your 'can of worms' of abilities available to attach to paths.

Better than traits even, I think. Is it possible?

Reply #61 Top

Also, can you make certain abilities only activated with a certain weapon type? (ie Sword, or Spear, or Axe, or Dagger)

Or is it only Ranged vs Melee?

 

Having certain warrior abilities tied to Axes or Swords, while certain assassin abilities tied to daggers, would be cool.

Reply #62 Top

I have one ability for warriors that ignores 66% of armor. I could make a few special ones for roguish heroes. I am thinking of having some abilities used once per battle, but with the option to have it appear twice or three times with new traits. So you could choose to have 3 piercing strikes per battle. Other, less powerful, abilities could be usable every X turns. 

 

The thing to do would be to add the ability to the weapon itself. That would mean a core mod and I am reluctant to do any mods that mod the core game. Making a trait require a weapon type is fun for the user, but impossible to explain to the AI. There is a glimmer of hope that the AI will know when to equip a ranged weapon to maximize its abilities, but I seriously doubt it will be carried much past that. This is really up to the frog.  :frogboy:

 

 

Reply #63 Top

Personally I think traits are fine with any weapon ... as its improving the character itself

 

Its just abilities (and special attacks) that would seem better connected to the weapon.

Maybe could have 4 types of weapons for this purpose

'pole-arms' -> Spears and Staffs

'heavy melee' -> Axes and Swords

'Daggers' -> Daggers

and

'Ranged' -> Bows

Reply #64 Top

One thing you might expect me to make is a good throwing ax. I am thinking 8 Cutting Damage, +1 to crit, can be thrown for 5 Cutting Damage, range of 3.

Reply #65 Top

Interesting. Will it have limited ammo? (can't carry as many axes as arrows ...)

Reply #66 Top

Yes. I will use the slot system I mentioned above. Good Call. This kind if unit will be a great choice in a battle. Do you want to attack an adjacent enemy or throw an ax at less damage to kill off a weakened unit?