Night before beta thoughts

With the FE beta coming out tomorrow and the start of yet another fun trip through the rollercoaster that is the Stardock beta process, I'd like to echo a sentiment that is on mine and probably many other's minds as well.

Most of us, including myself, started following Elemental in the first place because we were looking for a successor to Master of Magic.  WoM definitely wasn't it and I'm hoping that with the inevitable tweaking that will be part of the beta process that Stardock realizes that the closer the game is to the "good aspects" of Master of Magic, the better.  For this I make the following suggestions.

- First and foremost, MoM was a huge deep game, but was NOT a micromanagement hell.  What it had was a ton of content... Factions, spells, items, units, etc that made every game unique.  That content was presented in a way that wasn't overly complex or overwhelming.  Only 3 resources (food, mana, and production).  City development was deep but simple (only about 25 different buildings or so, and only one building of each per city).  The buildings were powerful though and no 2 buildings did the same thing. WoM was light on content but heavy on complexity exactly the opposite of what made MoM great.

- SPELLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I can't emphasize this enough.  MoM had over 200 spells and they were all unique.  Granted the AI didn't know how to use many of them effectively but nearly every spell was interesting and did more then "do x damage" or "heal x hp".  Example: Cracks Call, a basic spell that simply opened up the ground beneath an enemy.  It didn't simply "do damage" it gave the caster the opportunity (flat % chance) to kill any non flyer.  It was annoying when the AI used it but it was great when you were going against powerful ground enemies like paladins.  I could go on and on about the unique spells in MoM.  What WoM had was a very limited number of spells and worse yet, they were boring, they lacked flavor, and they were mostly variations on the same theme.  MoM made me feel like apowerful wizard while WoMs magic was severely lacking.  And with this comes.....

- Special abilities and status effects!  Something that MoM had in spades. It allowed for units to be vastly different from each other not just "numerically" stronger or weaker.  This also allowed for spells to grant various buffs and debuffs to units.  WoM was a joke in this regard.  Units were boring copies of each other.  Monsters didnt feel like monsters just a boring set of numbers.  In FE,  I hope to see unique abilities and effects for every unit, item, spell, etc.. 

- Flavor.  MoM also had plenty of flavor even though it didn't have a story per say.  Every aspect of the game whether it be a summoned creature, a spell, a race, a hero, or whatever had tons of flavor (which were translated in game as unique abilities and effect).  Again, this helped to make the player feel like a powerful wizard-king.  In WoM even with the backstory thbee simply wasn't much flavor.  Like every other aspect, it was bland and didn't add to the experience.  

I could probably write a few pages about this but in summary.  Stardock please we want a 4x fantasy TBS game that lives up to MoM.  You had over a year to turn WoM into that game.  I originally gave up after I saw WoM would not be that game but I'm giving you guys a chance with FE.  Expect to hear from me again after the beta comes out with feedback and I suggest you look no further then MoM, a game made nearly 20 years ago that took up 5 megabytes on disk and had more "game" then any strategy title before or since.

30,590 views 7 replies
Reply #1 Top

Expect to hear from me again after the beta comes out with feedback and I suggest you look no further then MoM, a game made nearly 20 years ago that took up 5 megabytes on disk and had more "game" then any strategy title before or since.

I would humbly offer one exception: Civilization I. I often think back on that game with the same awe that you expressed for MoM.

But here, here! Great post.

Reply #2 Top

I never played MoM, but what you describe is exactly the type of fantasy strategy game I always wanted to play.  Unfortunately, WoM never was that game, but I think FE is definitely heading in the right direction. Hopefully by this time tomorrow, the beta community can answer with a resounding "Yes!"  :rofl:

Reply #3 Top

Interesting and powerful spells is definitely something FE needs. I hope it lives up to the original promise of world-changing mega spells that will allow you to feel truly powerful, and in a way that is different to your opponents. Different schools of magic should have drastically different spells which, depending on the other choices made by your enemies will either be a nuisance to them or a complete disaster. And I want to feel the fear of going up against a channeler who specializes in a type of magic I know could cause me serious problems.

The spells need to be epic and varied. I'd much rather have a game that starts out very unbalanced with a lot of wild and powerful spells than one that is balanced but feels boring and just like every other TBS game in the end. This game still has tremendous potential and I really hope they can pull it off this time.

Reply #4 Top

Quoting RooksBailey, reply 2
I never played MoM, but what you describe is exactly the type of fantasy strategy game I always wanted to play.

Well, I don't think Stardock will mind if I tell you all that you can buy MoM from gog.com for $6...

http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/master_of_magic

Gog.com is run by "good guys," like Stardock: no DRM, reasonably priced titles, etc.

I recommend buying it and giving it a shot. Honestly, I found it hard to get into, but I think it's a good edjumucation for all that are interested in the FE beta and development.

 

Reply #5 Top

MOM was one of my first games from GOG.com. 

I got MOM cuz WOM players kept talking about it. Same with AOW. I like MOM well enough, but I found it lacking in city building depth, so I haven't spent much time with it. I got totally addicted to the AOW games though. And still eagerly anticipate playing some new mods. I very much like AOWs tactical combat. Especially how movements on the hexagonal world map, impact positioning on the tactical map. And how you can maneuver multiple armies to a single battle.

My ideal 4X TBS RPG game, would have empire building aspects similar to the depth of Civ4; and tactical combat along the lines of AOW. E:FE might be darn close to this ideal. Though I still crave larger tactical battlefields with more room to maneuver, more terrain variables, along with other tactical considerations which foster a combined arms approach to combat; giving me reasons to outfit my troops, and to arrange their battlefield positions in particular ways. But then the RPG factor which Elemental offers, has been a welcome boon indeed. Civ has been my favored game environment for many years. I thought WOM would take that spot. There seemed every reason that it would. Now, the night before the first beta wave, I am even more confident that E:FE will claim that title of "most favored game".  

Reply #6 Top

Quoting scyldSCHEFING, reply 4

Quoting RooksBailey, reply 2I never played MoM, but what you describe is exactly the type of fantasy strategy game I always wanted to play.

Well, I don't think Stardock will mind if I tell you all that you can buy MoM from gog.com for $6...

http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/master_of_magic

Gog.com is run by "good guys," like Stardock: no DRM, reasonably priced titles, etc.

I recommend buying it and giving it a shot. Honestly, I found it hard to get into, but I think it's a good edjumucation for all that are interested in the FE beta and development.

 

Also you might want to check out the unofficial "insecticide" patch that greatly improves the AI and adds a few new features (such as larger maps).

Reply #7 Top

Quoting delijoe, reply 6

Quoting scyldSCHEFING, reply 4
Quoting RooksBailey, reply 2I never played MoM, but what you describe is exactly the type of fantasy strategy game I always wanted to play.

Well, I don't think Stardock will mind if I tell you all that you can buy MoM from gog.com for $6...

http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/master_of_magic

Gog.com is run by "good guys," like Stardock: no DRM, reasonably priced titles, etc.

I recommend buying it and giving it a shot. Honestly, I found it hard to get into, but I think it's a good edjumucation for all that are interested in the FE beta and development.

 

Also you might want to check out the unofficial "insecticide" patch that greatly improves the AI and adds a few new features (such as larger maps).

Oh yeah, absolutely!

 A link for the latest insecticide patch can be found in GoG.com's forum for the game.

 

Also, another game to try from GoG.com would probably be Age of Wonders or Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic (which is basically a remake of AoW II). Age of Wonders II has a brutal learning curve that might turn off new players, hence why AoW:SM is suggested over AoW II.

And again, insecticide patches are available from the AoW series forum at GoG.com.