Baby steps. All in good time.

I really like this.

Imagine the last battle where you gather all your champions... A bunch of earless freaks with amnesia, scarred from years of battle... Cool.

The Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA) Title III - Public Accommodations (and Commercial Facilities) 42 U.S.C. §§ 12181–12189., would require this, yes.

-tid242

OK, here's an idea, add diseases as negative traits after losing some battles, like plague, that can be transmitted to cities. But not cancer, that's reserved for the game itself

In Dom3 you could lose one aye, then lose the second and be blind.  Being blind pretty much made you suck compeltley.  You could lose and arm too, but not sure if you could lose both arms...I had a frost giant that was missing an arm, an eye, had a chest wound, and was mute, but had tons of experience so I continued to use him.  Eventually I was able to cast a global healing spell that started to heal all his wounds.  It was awesome.  I love that stuff.  Somehow get more attached to my wounded heroes.

If there is a way to fix the injuries, it should be difficult to do.  Maybe a quest, rare random event, or something that takes either great effort, cash, or luck.  

Is the amount of mana lost something like 10% of your total for each champion that has to retreat?  I know in WoM that when Sovereigns retreated they lost half their total mana.  I think 10% of total mana lost for each champion lost in a single battle would be a good amount.  If you lost 1 champion in one battle and then lost another champion in another battle, you would lose 10% of the mana you had at that time.  But if you lost 2 champions in one battle and then 1 champion in the next you'd lose 20% of the total mana at the end of the first battle and then 10% of total mana at the end of the next battle.  And if your penalty for one battle would be more than 100% of total mana (say your Sovereign and 6 champions in one battle) you'd lose all your mana (I think it would be too harsh to go into negative mana).

Of course you could just make it 50% of total mana lost for any battle where your Sovereign is defeated, or 10% of total mana lost for any battle you lose 1 or more Champions but not your Sovereign.  But it might be good to provide a bigger penalty if more than one hero is defeated in the one battle (for the privilege of still getting to keep them and warping them to the nearest town).

Will Sovereign receive negative traits?  Maybe their magic prevents them from getting wounds when defeated?

Will there still be a spell that allows a champion to retreat without suffering any injuries (Death Ward or somesuch)?

I realize I am the only one who thought having champions die was not in need of fixing. I would prefer champions to die, that for me heightens immersion and makes champions feel more important. Protecting them is now one less thing to compute. Two yeares ago, I remember Brad citing those fantasy novels whose name escapes me at the moment (Game of Thrones?) as inspiration for the world, and while I didn't find those books particularly enriching (I purchased and read 3 of them in my pre-EWOM-release frenzy), I did like the fact that main characters ("champions") frequently died in that story line. It seemed original; just because a figure plays a large narrative role, there should be no permanent rebirth shrine. Not that my two cents matter one bit.

Well, I think it was put in partly for the AI, so they didn't get all their champions targeted and wiped out pronto, and also to prevent running out of champions.  But AFAIK, champions can still be killed, before they are recruited, by the opposite side (Kingdoms/Empires).  However I understand what you're saying.  Maybe there could be an option for custom maps/campaigns, if new champion spawning is possible (so they don't run out), for champions to die permanently?

Loosing all of his army and some of his pride, Jagnir finally found solace in chanting with his dealy bought exceptional voice, famous and highly valued for other-worldly flexibility and high pitch now.

Charisma +10

Stamina <n/a>

Trait: nightingale

I think also you should have a chance to get just "the wind knocked out of you" and don't suffer, as well as a chance to have the champion die.

Nice, really nice!  This is really encouraging!

"spending 6 turns to recover" means it will be out of service (or invisible for every player) for 6 turns, I assume.

The idea should be further extended.

Being 'out of service' when they escape should only be one of the conseqences of defeat.   Every champion  should have is own 'escape %' as its stat.  Or you can use the already existing 'Dodge' stat to calculate the % chance of escaping (instead of dying outright).  

When they can't escape, they die.  And there is a third alternative, the defeated champion will have % chance to turncoat to the winning party.  This hiddened turncoat % should be evaluated during each battle, affected by the following factors:

1)  Initial morale at the beginning of the battle

2) The charisma of the opposing champion in this battle

3) Distance from nearest allied town, etc etc.

==

Secondly, where they will re-appear should be important/worth discussing.  My previous suggestion is that they will automatically 'walk back' to the last allied town they have visited.

I think it would be like Sovereigns in WoM.  When they get defeated, they get sent to the nearest of your faction's towns, and they are fixed to that town (ie. can't move out of it) for that number of turns.  Maybe in FE if a champion (but not a Sovereign, since they are inherently special) gets defeated again while still recovering from the first defeat, they automatically die?

Assuming they have ever visited a town ever.  Nope, don't like that.  They should either go to the capital or go to the nearest city.  And no deaths. Why?  Because they are limited.  And all that death will do is cause a reset.  Now, if they "can't escape", have no other towns to go to, then they should go back to being free agents, or be hired by the nation that defeated their old one.  No death.  Fewer, more interesting champions makes for a better game.  And that only works if they can't die.  

I certainly don't agree with that, but we won't be able to "test" the hypothesis either ;.)

Well, I have tested it in other games, like Romance of the Three Kingdoms.  That game has a limited number of officers in it.  Now, as the time line priogresses, there are children "born" as they historically, would, but there is a finite number of champions.  These officers can be killed in a number of ways, they can be killed in battle, duels, or beheaded when captured.  One of the best strategies to win, although not terribly fun, was to capture and execute as many officers as you could.  This can greatly depopulate the game, and in some versions of the game, can leave you unable to "win" but leave you no resistance.  

If there are few champions in the game, having them killable certainly makes them precious, but almost so precious that you don't even want to put them in harms way.  If you make them killable, but high in numbers, they just become another generic troop.  If they are high in numbers, but unkillable, they replace armies entirely.  

Now low in numbers, but unkillable is the best solution.  They are rare, but not so precious that you are afraid to actually use them.  they are few, so they support armies instead of being the armies.  Also, the game, no matter how long you play (and some of us nerds have super long huge games) will be in the game.

Now, the dynasty system is no longer in the game, so there is no way to "replenish" our supplies of champions.  So with a set number of heroes, it is my strong belief that a low number of interesting and unkillable champions is the best way to go.  

I see what you mean, and I tend to agree with you.  But I think there does need to be some high-level magic that can remove some of the negative traits, given enough time, resources etc, so for the most favoured champions, you have a chance to remove the worst debuffs.

I wonder if champions have mainetance costs. Would be fun to have an obese champion that holds feasts often, consuming a lot of food each season but in turn giving some other bonus (or not, or just being a good spellcaster for example).

Or another champion that likes to gamble away gold from your treasury, or another one who lives a luxurious life requiring you to build a palace for him to reside in that has a high maintenance cost.

All sorts of stuff would be possible to make unique champs in addition to these on-death traits.

I really want to play a random game and run into different kinds of personalities each time around, not just from the opposing kingdoms and empires.

"Damn, there's the obese guy but my kingdom can't afford his feasts right now, I hope I find someone who's just keen on gold .."

Champions are the major source for spells. It would wreck the AI to lose high level champions. 

Yes, this.  There should be high level, diffucult and costly magics to remove debuffs from these assets.  The alternative is that, as they become debuffed, they become more and more likely to gain additional debuffs, and so effectively die (but you'll keep them around for their spells, but they won't be counted on for anything other than that).

No opinion either way, though I am surprised people were against killing of champions

Again comparing with classic games (you know which ones I talking about, in particularly the one this one claims to take inspiraion from), the champions/heroes are usually "killable", in some games there are even rarer. Yet it still works.

That said, if it helps the AI, i guess why not? 

so... heroes able to be captured if in enemy territory.., take out this b*d*ss comin at yus & you get the chance to recruite'em (depending on loyalty/whats offered/time imprisioned), would be nice since your having such a time getting rid of a certain faction's problem hero (perhaps this ability would need to be researched?).  This I think would give alot more power to those that believe in turtling rather than rushing, they rush the first time & I pick up their hero, thank you..come again.

I agree that champion should die... but they should rarely die from losing a combat.

Thanks to Grizzyloin's reminder, yes, there should be a building called 'Prison'.   A % of defeated hero should be sent there, if built.  This offers an interesting mechanics for rescue missions!

Imprisoning the defeated champ should be the 4th possibility of what I've mentioned in Reply #36

From the video, I really don't like the teleportation of the defeated champion.   They should backtrack to the last allied city instead.   When they are walking, sometimes they are totally invisible.  At this time, they are considered as  independent champion,  that  they can be recruited by any player.

Instead of having the vague term of 'spending 6 turns to recover' as in OP, the champ should recover the lost HP by natural healing only.  Once they are of full HP AND reach the last allied city, they become automatically recruited  to the original owner.  It is more elegant.

Having these changes should be simple for developer, yet provide more fun & reality to the game.

Yes, when i saw the video, my first thought was, the teleport to capital if defeated seems to be a nice trick. I dont know if FE champions are plentiful/cheap enough to abuse this trick on one throwaway champion just to abuse this loophole.

So far I see 2 other mentions already of the same problem.