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Impulse Sells 'SotS II' which Requires STEAM?!

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TheChronicToast
kryo
Join Date 05/2003
+458
Reply #26 October 30, 2011 8:45:14 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Tridus,
reply 25
They don't care about the other stuff (unless it bites them, which is pretty rare)

It'll only remain rare so long as there's enough competition that losing customers because of it remains a possibility. They've already shown their colors, and if they get monopolistic control, things certainly won't get better for consumers.

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TheChronicToast
Frogboy
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Reply #27 October 30, 2011 3:31:49 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

One thing about Impulse that people don't often talk about (and I've told Gamestop they should push this a lot more) is that it is faster than any other service. And I don't mean a little bit faster but massively faster.

I feel for people who bought BF3 directly via Origin instead of Impulse.  With Impulse, the download speed is typically limited by your connection.  By contrast,with other services, I get around 300k per second typically. YMMV. 

But the speed difference means I get to play the game that afternoon and not the next day.

...

Now, that said, Stardock games are going to be available through its own service as well as Impulse and will be using the fastest download CDN we can find to ensure our games download at ludicrous speed.

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TheChronicToast
XATHOS
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Reply #28 October 30, 2011 3:46:55 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Darvin3,
reply 4

Many people, me included, do not accept Steam's policies and refuse to patronize them as a result.  Admittedly these days you must read the fine print to find out what you're buying into if you want to avoid DRM.

For people trying to avoid Steam, Impulse has really been one of the last bastions.  The fact that Gamestop has apparently capitulated doesn't bode well.  For people who want to avoid Steam, the choice may soon be to abandon the hobby altogether.

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 27
One thing about Impulse that people don't often talk about (and I've told Gamestop they should push this a lot more) is that it is faster than any other service. And I don't mean a little bit faster but massively faster.

I feel for people who bought BF3 directly via Origin instead of Impulse.  With Impulse, the download speed is typically limited by your connection.  By contrast,with other services, I get around 300k per second typically. YMMV. 

But the speed difference means I get to play the game that afternoon and not the next day.

...

Now, that said, Stardock games are going to be available through its own service as well as Impulse and will be using the fastest download CDN we can find to ensure our games download at ludicrous speed.

Smart men.

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TheChronicToast
TheChronicToast
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Reply #29 October 30, 2011 6:34:32 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 27
Now, that said, Stardock games are going to be available through its own service as well as Impulse and will be using the fastest download CDN we can find to ensure our games download at ludicrous speed.

 

You guys are awesome.

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TheChronicToast
Phenoca
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Reply #30 October 30, 2011 10:39:12 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Steam is excellent. It is the next-best thing to MMO client streaming (e.g. like InstantAction.com).

I heard about Instant Action (now closed) through Galcon through Zatikon through GameDev.

I heard about Steam from Space Empires IV from Malfador Machinations from the Cosmic Supremacy forum from Space Civilizations from Game Ogre. Up until two weeks ago I have only ever purchased indie games on Steam (such as Braid, AI Wars, and two other games). Is supporting Indie developers really so evil?

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TheChronicToast
Alstein
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Reply #31 October 30, 2011 11:45:20 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 27
One thing about Impulse that people don't often talk about (and I've told Gamestop they should push this a lot more) is that it is faster than any other service. And I don't mean a little bit faster but massively faster.

I feel for people who bought BF3 directly via Origin instead of Impulse.  With Impulse, the download speed is typically limited by your connection.  By contrast,with other services, I get around 300k per second typically. YMMV. 

But the speed difference means I get to play the game that afternoon and not the next day.

...

Now, that said, Stardock games are going to be available through its own service as well as Impulse and will be using the fastest download CDN we can find to ensure our games download at ludicrous speed.

 

That is not even the case anymore.  I used their new service to DL a game a few days ago- I was getting around 30% of the speed I got with Steam.  It used to be Impulse was slightly faster.  I'm sure the stuff under the hood is still there, but it's not working right now. 

It's clear to me that the service has degraded in many ways since Gamestop took over, maybe they'll fix things, but given Gamestop's reputation, I don't trust them to do it, and I'm not going to wait around for it.  I was perfectly willing to give Gamestop a fair chance, but I feel like I have, and they've blown it.

 

Unfortunately, monopoly ISP's in the US have throttled back speed improvements, so being faster isn't as big a benefit as it should be, unless you live in a FIOS area.  I kinda wish we saw more political pressure on this, but we won't until we get a new generation in power.

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TheChronicToast
Savyg
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Reply #32 October 31, 2011 7:38:26 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Hey it matters to me.  Even my subpar connection often feels shortchanged on Steam.  Origin is certainly better with it, and I haven't bought anything off Impulse lately.

 

I hope they work through their new account issues, because I do like the Impulse service in general.  Just been buying retail a lot more often.

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TheChronicToast
XATHOS
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Reply #33 October 31, 2011 9:57:17 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Phenoca,
reply 30
Steam is excellent.

You like having extra DRM?  Gotcha.

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TheChronicToast
Tridus
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Reply #34 October 31, 2011 12:53:01 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting XATHOS,
reply 33

Quoting Phenoca, reply 30Steam is excellent.

You like having extra DRM?  Gotcha.

Linux evangelists tried to woo people away from Windows for years with very similar lines about how the control Microsoft had over your computer was scary and evil and bad.

Unfortunately the overwhelming majority don't care. They want something that works. Steam works. As of yet, nobody has an alternative that works better in the ways that users actually care about.

(And with whatever they changed recently in the last update, I'm getting better speed too. Steam's running at 3.7MB/s for me these days, which is connection saturation. Given that Steam doesn't have Impulse's lengthy "preparing download" phase before it starts that makes Steam actually faster from purchase to install.)

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TheChronicToast
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Reply #35 October 31, 2011 1:26:12 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

 

The only thing to say after  ^^^^^  is...........B-A-Z-I-N-G-A!    hehe  

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TheChronicToast
XATHOS
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Reply #36 October 31, 2011 7:24:05 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Tridus,

Quoting Phenoca, reply 30Steam is excellent.

You like having extra DRM?  Gotcha.
Linux evangelists tried to woo people away from Windows for years with very similar lines about how the control Microsoft had over your computer was scary and evil and bad.

Unfortunately the overwhelming majority don't care. They want something that works. Steam works. As of yet, nobody has an alternative that works better in the ways that users actually care about.

(And with whatever they changed recently in the last update, I'm getting better speed too. Steam's running at 3.7MB/s for me these days, which is connection saturation. Given that Steam doesn't have Impulse's lengthy "preparing download" phase before it starts that makes Steam actually faster from purchase to install.)

Eh, I don't really care that much for speed unless it's godly slow nor am I a Linux guy (even though, that's my backup/splash OS).  A digital distribution platform shouldn't inbuild itself into games thereby creating an extra lair of DRM.  Customers don't want more DRM.  Creates more issues that developers have to deal with.

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TheChronicToast
Krazikarl
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Reply #37 October 31, 2011 8:34:01 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting XATHOS,
reply 36
Tridus
Quoting Phenoca, reply 30Steam is excellent.

You like having extra DRM?  Gotcha.
Linux evangelists tried to woo people away from Windows for years with very similar lines about how the control Microsoft had over your computer was scary and evil and bad.

Unfortunately the overwhelming majority don't care. They want something that works. Steam works. As of yet, nobody has an alternative that works better in the ways that users actually care about.

(And with whatever they changed recently in the last update, I'm getting better speed too. Steam's running at 3.7MB/s for me these days, which is connection saturation. Given that Steam doesn't have Impulse's lengthy "preparing download" phase before it starts that makes Steam actually faster from purchase to install.)

Eh, I don't really care that much for speed unless it's godly slow nor am I a Linux guy (even though, that's my backup/splash OS).  A digital distribution platform shouldn't inbuild itself into games thereby creating an extra lair of DRM.  Customers don't want more DRM.  Creates more issues that developers have to deal with.


Customers dont want to pay money for games either.  But most people are reasonable in that they understand that the makers of products have to do some things to get the money that they deserve.  So while customers might not want DRM in the strictest sense, they generally understand the need for it and are willing to have it as long as its unobtrusive.

And the choice to use Steam's DRM isnt even Value/Steam making the decision.  The developers of the game chose the DRM - I thought that Steam actually distributed some games without Steamworks if the developer chose.  I know that many developers actually reduce the DRM of their games (like removing SecuROM) when they distribute via Steam.  So I think its kind of off to blame Steam for the choice of the developers.

And for all the whining about Steam's DRM, I have yet to see viable alternatives.  Indy publishers who publish without DRM have gone on record as saying that over 90% of the people with their games are pirates if they go DRM free.  Given that, companies have to do something, and the Steam option seems pretty reasonable to most people. 

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TheChronicToast
Tridus
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Reply #38 November 1, 2011 7:20:02 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Krazikarl,
reply 37

Customers dont want to pay money for games either.  But most people are reasonable in that they understand that the makers of products have to do some things to get the money that they deserve.  So while customers might not want DRM in the strictest sense, they generally understand the need for it and are willing to have it as long as its unobtrusive.

And the choice to use Steam's DRM isnt even Value/Steam making the decision.  The developers of the game chose the DRM - I thought that Steam actually distributed some games without Steamworks if the developer chose.  I know that many developers actually reduce the DRM of their games (like removing SecuROM) when they distribute via Steam.  So I think its kind of off to blame Steam for the choice of the developers.

Pretty much, yeah. Steam even sells GFWL games, which is the closest thing to a rival platform to Steamworks out there. And you're right, people don't care (except for a tiny minority) about Steam's DRM. It doesn't bother people. It doesn't damage your computer. It's also not terribly effective, but not a lot of DRM is.

And for all the whining about Steam's DRM, I have yet to see viable alternatives.  Indy publishers who publish without DRM have gone on record as saying that over 90% of the people with their games are pirates if they go DRM free.  Given that, companies have to do something, and the Steam option seems pretty reasonable to most people. 

It's not even the DRM so much as it is Steam the platform. Nobody's offering a better package then Steamworks. That's the issue I always have with Steam complaints - who offers the same feature level for game developers? Nobody. The DRM is really just an extra that publishers get.

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TheChronicToast
-RAISTLIN-
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Reply #39 November 2, 2011 1:59:23 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting kryo,
reply 26

It'll only remain rare so long as there's enough competition that losing customers because of it remains a possibility. They've already shown their colors, and if they get monopolistic control, things certainly won't get better for consumers.

And to stop this "monopolistic control", stardock sold out to a retail giant who are in the midst of creating their own monopoly. way to go fighting the good fight! at least steam is run by gamers for gamers, you guys sold out to a publically-traded corporation. yeah, im sure the interests of consumers are their primary concern, haha.

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TheChronicToast
Cykur
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Reply #40 November 2, 2011 10:55:59 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

I was also shocked when my SOTS2 purchase from Impulse launched the Steam installer.  I just don't like Steam because it is both invasive and takes control away from how you manage your software.  I don't want to be logged in and tracked to play a game on my home computer.

And while it is true that you can turn steam off while you play SOTS2, it requires Steam to launch.  At one point I was trying to launch SOTS2 and Steam reported that "This game is not currently available, try later".  I'm guessing they were loading the new patch image at Steam or something, but I wasn't trying to patch, I just wanted to launch the game, and it became very clear I needed Steam to do it.

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TheChronicToast
Murteas
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Reply #41 November 2, 2011 11:23:15 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 27
One thing about Impulse that people don't often talk about (and I've told Gamestop they should push this a lot more) is that it is faster than any other service. And I don't mean a little bit faster but massively faster.

I feel for people who bought BF3 directly via Origin instead of Impulse.  With Impulse, the download speed is typically limited by your connection.  By contrast,with other services, I get around 300k per second typically. YMMV. 

But the speed difference means I get to play the game that afternoon and not the next day.

...

Now, that said, Stardock games are going to be available through its own service as well as Impulse and will be using the fastest download CDN we can find to ensure our games download at ludicrous speed.

 

THIS!  Repost for truth.  The speed difference is significant.  

 

The thing I dislike is that I am logged out of steam everytime I am playing a game, and my son plays a different game under my account.   I mean come on, We can't play 2 different games on 2 different computers just because I bought them under 1 account...

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TheChronicToast
bonscott
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Reply #42 November 3, 2011 12:21:36 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Quoting kryo,
reply 22

That people still want Steam to have centralized control of all their games boggles the mind.

As you know I've been around since the Drengin.net days and was a huge detractor of Steam (after issues when it first came out) and champion for Impulse.  I refuse (and I mean refuse) to do business with Gamestop so the day this was announced I gave Steam another try.  Honestly I don't know what the fuss is all about with Steam.  Heck, I have it running all the time and frankly I love the centralized launching of games.  I actually replaced most of my Impulse games on Steam during the Summer sales.  Soon will be the black Friday sales and winter sales.  I expect more goodness.

So coming from me, and maybe it doesn't mean all that much anymore, but Steam is great.  Plus the fact that so many games are now Steamworks required you just can't get away from it unless you boycott all those games.  

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TheChronicToast
bonscott
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Reply #43 November 3, 2011 12:24:00 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 27
One thing about Impulse that people don't often talk about (and I've told Gamestop they should push this a lot more) is that it is faster than any other service. And I don't mean a little bit faster but massively faster.

Speed has rarely been a problem with Steam.  It always maxes out my 18 meg connection.  No issues here.  True test will be the Skyrim pre-load.


Now, that said, Stardock games are going to be available through its own service

This is good news indeed.  I really want to continue to support Stardock games but I won't do business with Gamestop.  So good to hear that eventually I'll be able to buy games directly from Stardock again.  Hopefully this will including Sins.

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TheChronicToast
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Reply #44 November 3, 2011 2:25:11 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting bonscott,
reply 43
This is good news indeed. I really want to continue to support Stardock games but I won't do business with Gamestop. So good to hear that eventually I'll be able to buy games directly from Stardock again. Hopefully this will including Sins.

 

Indeed.

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TheChronicToast
YSOOMG
Join Date 11/2011
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Reply #45 November 3, 2011 5:01:29 PM
from Gamers Bill of Rights ForumsGamers Bill of Rights Forums

Quoting bonscott,
reply 42

Plus the fact that so many games are now Steamworks required you just can't get away from it unless you boycott all those games.  

Which is pretty much what I intend to do.

I wanted to buy LotR: War in the North on PC until they announced Steam was required. Now I won't buy it at all, maybe on console if I really get bored. Same goes for Skyrim.

I never cared for Steam. I don't mind that people want Steam. What I do mind is that Valve wants to shove it down my throat if I want to play on PC in some messed up attempt to create a monopoly on the market of PC game distribution.

I never intend to use Steam for that reason (among others), especially if Valve keeps that tedious and intrusive overlay on the system that is the Steam application.

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TheChronicToast
Tridus
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Reply #46 November 3, 2011 9:55:10 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I dunno. I was just playing Dungeon Defenders (Steam version). A friend of mine saw in Steam that I was playing it (from another game), so I fired him an invite and we went off and played with a couple more random people joining in.

When some other DD service is coming close to that level of "make it easy to play with my friends", then we'll talk. Right now Steam does a lot more then just act as a fancy download manager.

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TheChronicToast
TheChronicToast
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Reply #47 November 4, 2011 12:24:54 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

That is why I use xFire ... I can do everything that you just described without the intrusiveness of steam hogging up my bandwidth, computer resources, etc.

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TheChronicToast
tetleytea
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Reply #48 November 4, 2011 12:34:06 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Linux evangelists tried to woo people away from Windows for years with very similar lines about how the control Microsoft had over your computer was scary and evil and bad.

Unfortunately the overwhelming majority don't care. They want something that works. Steam works. As of yet, nobody has an alternative that works better in the ways that users actually care about.

 

I think with Linux the game is the OS itself.   I don't know about the rest of the Linux crowd, but on my box at home I regularly yum download things just for fun just to see how they work.   And I've grubbed a play install of the kernel that I've hopelessly hacked up by now.  You know, if you're good at coding the Linux kernel, you can make $180k a year doing that.   There's just very little incentive to play games on Linux when the game IS Linux.

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TheChronicToast
Savyg
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Reply #49 November 4, 2011 4:11:26 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Quoting Tridus,
reply 46
I dunno. I was just playing Dungeon Defenders (Steam version). A friend of mine saw in Steam that I was playing it (from another game), so I fired him an invite and we went off and played with a couple more random people joining in.

When some other DD service is coming close to that level of "make it easy to play with my friends", then we'll talk. Right now Steam does a lot more then just act as a fancy download manager.

I hear that.  Impulses community features are...umm, the forum.

...

I assume they're working on it, but I never heard anything about it.

When I buy, I usually buy from Steam.  When I buy EA, I buy from Origin.  Retail...well, depends how much I'm sick of downloading.

Impulse is a good service but it still doesn't have the full monty on the user experience front, so I have a hard time trying to get excited about it.

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TheChronicToast
Tridus
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Reply #50 November 4, 2011 8:37:54 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting boshimi336,
reply 47
That is why I use xFire ... I can do everything that you just described without the intrusiveness of steam hogging up my bandwidth, computer resources, etc.

So xFire doesn't use bandwidth or computer resources?

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