Horrible ship maneuvering

from Sins Forums

When there are obstacles in the way, ships seem to be very horrible at finding their way around them and at not running into them and coming to a dead stop. This is particularly a problem for capital ships.

http://www.mediafire.com/?zne6t3gawmaufei

Very very quick replay. My capital ship is ordered to phase jump to another planet. It comes out of the capital ship factory and stops itself on the weapons lab. And stays there. For about a minute. Its orders are to phase jump but it just sits there, perhaps waiting for the structure to be destroyed or something, thrusters on full while apparently attempting to move "through" the structure. At long last the ship figures out that it can go underneath it and, after a few stuttering stops along the way, makes it past and starts moving towards the edge of the gravity well.

This sort of problem happens way too frequently. Say I have a capital ship that jumps into a neutral gravity well. I order it to move to the other side of the gravity well. There happens to be a planet rock (extractor asteroid) in between. Does the ship avoid it? Often times no. It will often simply run into it, come to a halt, and then eventually figure out that it has to turn in a different direction (z-axis often) in order to maneuver around it. This can waste 20 seconds or so, more if one isn't playing on Faster, and even more if the neutral militia are mobbing the capital ship like they normally do.

This can be very significant, especially in more competitive games against humans where seconds matter a whole lot in the early game.

Can we have ships whose captains are not criminally retarded please? Players would probably appreciate it a lot.

124,395 views 26 replies
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

There is actually a bug that you can exploit to improve pathfinding.  Very rapidly give move orders to the affected unit, and it will actually "glide" past the obstruction without turning around and coming to a complete stop.  If you start doing this right away, it basically won't slow down at all and will just skirt past the obstruction.  This is commonly known as the click-spam exploit, and it would be nice if units always acted this way.

Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Darvin3, reply 2
There is actually a bug that you can exploit to improve pathfinding.  Very rapidly give move orders to the affected unit, and it will actually "glide" past the obstruction without turning around and coming to a complete stop.  If you start doing this right away, it basically won't slow down at all and will just skirt past the obstruction.  This is commonly known as the click-spam exploit, and it would be nice if units always acted this way.

I am aware of that option but using it requires that you're continuously looking at the ship. Except in a combat situation when a player should obviously be micromanaging it, often my attention is elsewhere queuing other orders and there isn't the freedom to go zooming in on a ship every time I give it new orders to make sure it doesn't get stuck on something.

I really don't think it should be that hard for capital ships at least to use linear projection to see if they're going to collide with anything, and to slightly alter their movement behavior accordingly.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

"Capt'n, dere be an asteroid ahead!  Whadda we do?"

"No problem, mate.  We'll just bump into it.  I reckon that will stop us.  Then we'll turn the ship and go around it."

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Capital ships hitting large rocks and then realizing they need to move in the z-axis to go around the obstacles are not new (it is a terrible thing as many get mobbed as you stated.

 

 

I do agree though that this should be addressed if possible.

Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top

Its being dealt with along with some other ship movement improvements and optimizations (it eats up a lot of CPU time).

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

I don't know how much CPU it would take but when it comes down to it I would prefer the pathing the way it is to a noticeable decrease in performance.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

You misunderstood me. The new code will be faster and smarter than the old code which is slow and gives stupid behavior in certain circumstances. Win - win.

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Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Win - Win is always good.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Blair, reply 8
You misunderstood me. The new code will be faster and smarter than the old code which is slow and gives stupid behavior in certain circumstances. Win - win.

I'll admit, I didn't think I'd ever see the day that this would be addressed without Sins 2. Very good news. \o/

 

 

Further, I advise that the Devs add custom map sharing to Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Blair you rock! Thanks!

 

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 10
Further, I advise that the Devs add custom map sharing to Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion.

 

According to Yarlen this is being looked into!

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

According to Yarlen this is being looks into!

Being "looked into" is not the same as a confirmed feature.  The whole point of what GaoFan is doing is to constantly remind the devs that this remains a high priority item so it doesn't end up being a forgotten item at the bottom of the list.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

I completely agree with you Darvin ... O.o' never said I didn't.

 

P.S. I was half asleep while typing the last response, sorry for the mental typo. :cylon:

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Blair, reply 8
You misunderstood me. The new code will be faster and smarter than the old code which is slow and gives stupid behavior in certain circumstances. Win - win.
Are you serious? You're going to fix THAT?

Yay! \o/

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting N3rull, reply 14
Are you serious? You're going to fix THAT?

Yay! 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE^^^^^^^

Arcing turns are much worse and more common than any other navigational problems IMO.

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "arcing" turns but the new code means ships don't move forward into the enemy firing squad line of death while attempting to move away in the opposite direction. There are other improvements as well.

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Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Blair, reply 16
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "arcing" turns but the new code means ships don't move forward into the enemy firing squad line of death while attempting to move away in the opposite direction. There are other improvements as well.
Well, I linked to my own thread where the "arcing turns" are explained quite exhaustively, with pictures and whatnot. Yes, that's what I meant.

"ships don't move forward into the enemy firing squad line of death while attempting to move away in the opposite direction" is exactly the fix me and so many other people long for.

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top

What algorithm are you using now? The box-infront-of-ship method? Or have you guys moved to A* already?

Can you add more function than the basic seek and flee, instead can you add other functions like pursuit (I don't mind have to pay research money during game to get this function) or even wander or stuff like that.

Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top

Anything other than the algorithm of "engage thrusters to full no matter what direction you're pointing" would be great.

Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top

This just happened to me. I built a scout (1) at 17 seconds into the game and order it to jump to another gravity well to explore. One of the scouts that was spawned with Quick Start (2) is ordered to jump to that gravity well too. At 1 minute into the game, (2) starts phase jumping, and (1) arrives at the same edge. But due to idiotic maneuvering, (1) apparently tries to jump from exactly the same location (2) is jumping from. But (1) can't move into the same location as (2). Eventually (1) figures out it has to turn clockwise in order to get into position to phase jump. But that doesn't work either, and after a 180~ degree turn in that direction, (1) then turns back counterclockwise in an attempt to jump out. That attempt fails as well, it turns 270 degrees counterclockwise before stopping and trying (and failing) to jump out. It turns back clockwise, figures out that it can't phase jump from there, and so it then turns 360 degrees counterclockwise before finally arriving into position to phase jump out.

Finally, at 2:01 into the game, the first scout I built starts phase jumping.

This is very, very bad.

Here is the replay. The scout to keep an eye on is the first scout that comes out of the frigate factory.

http://www.mediafire.com/?08wn6t3a5se5a9s

Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting throwawaythrowaway, reply 20

Finally, at 2:01 into the game, the first scout I built starts phase jumping.

This is very, very bad.

I think you've found the first of the random events people have wanted added to the game. I think its called "Deficient Ship Training" or maybe "Jammed Phase Drives". ;)

Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top

similar to GoaFan's the version I have that stacks on Sins of the Fallen can technically be loaded as a single mod without activating the rest of my mods features.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/388917/page/29

TXT
Version 0
enabledModNameCount 1
enabledModName "SotF Addon Effects R5"

 

Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 22
similar to GoaFan's the version I have that stacks on Sins of the Fallen can technically be loaded as a single mod without activating the rest of my mods features.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/388917/page/29

TXT
Version 0
enabledModNameCount 1
enabledModName "SotF Addon Effects R5"
 

???????????????

Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top

this is what tabbed browsing has done to us.

I prefer the original tabbed browsing. This is where you have a book next to your PC that you read while your 14.4kbps modem tries to reconnect and download the next text only web page. :) good times. Now what I am I supposed to do with all these books?!