AI map analysis

from Sins Forums

Could you put an option in game setup: "Allow AI to pre-analyse the map" or something similar to this? It would give AI some important informations about the map to level it with human player when playing custom maps, especially hand-made maps. There is a good example from Sins base game: the Gateway map. AI doesn't seem to be aware of that a planet named Gateway should be explored and defended as soon as possible, like human does.
This feature would make AI more competitive on tricky custom maps, too.

13,422 views 15 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

The AI just isn't smart enough for that sort of thing... its strategy seems to be just to expand to the next adjacent planet and fight off whatever defenders there are and repeat.

However, if the devs made the AI moddable and gave us enough options, I'm sure players could figure out tons of improvements to make, including this one!

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Sadly, the AI, which is a simple soul, is very limited in its strategic and tactical ability.  I've seen the AI do many retarded things, such as suicide itself on starbases, attempt to build a starbase in a well with large amounts of enemy ships and no ships of its own, fail to retreat capital ships that are being focus-fired upon, etc.  Basically, when you play against the AI, your opponent is severely mentally handicapped.

The good news is that if you want better opponents that are capable of strategic and tactical thought, you can log onto Ironclad Online and try it against human players.  You can really only do this on the Diplomacy expansion since that's where the action is.  Also, note that games against actual people normally don't last longer than 1.5 hours.  Starting now and for the next 7 hours or so, they'll probably be a couple 4v4 and 5v5 games.  You're going to discover that humans are much tougher opponents (because they aren't retarded and suicidal like the AI) but that the games are also much more interesting, intense, suspenseful, and satisfying.  Once you get up to speed you might never want to play against the AI again.  PvP team games also introduce new elements of team strategy to the game.

 

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Honestly there are not many AIs that would be able to just analyze a map like that an realize the importance of Gateway without being explicitly told so. Of course I'm hardly an expert on what AI is capable these days. But overall I think the AI's tactical deficiencies are far worse than its strategic ones, and should be the first thing to be corrected.

 

 

Further, I advise that the Devs add custom map sharing to Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

There could be a "Priority" level in GalaxyForge so designers can have chokepoint worlds be set high priority, but IronClad would have to make the AI go after high priority worlds within a set number of jumps from their homeplanet.  I've got a single star map that has 3-4 Rogue Stars on each side of the blockade.  I'd love to have each be a high-priority so the AI progresses well.

Also, yes, the AI is *(^% stupid.  Setting, from 0 to 100%, how a planet should be used would be better than the obscure weighting in the gameplay.constants.  AI should research population up to at least reduce the underdevelopment tax penalty.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Good thing the Dev's have promised us a greatly improved AI for Rebellion.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

I like SemazRalan's idea and it probably wouldn't be too hard for them to program that.  The only problem is that I can the see the AI suiciding itself on such a planet if another player owns it and has it fortified with a starbase.  I can just see the AI excitedly suiciding itself on the fortifications a the Gateway planet like lemmings over a cliff.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting SemazRalan, reply 4
AI should research population up to at least reduce the underdevelopment tax penalty.

The AIs that are worth playing against (unfair and above) already do that almost as soon as the planet is colonized though, right?

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Wrath89, reply 7
Quoting SemazRalan, reply 4AI should research population up to at least reduce the underdevelopment tax penalty.

The AIs that are worth playing against (unfair and above) already do that almost as soon as the planet is colonized though, right?

 

I usually play against hard AI  players, and they improve their planets as well. I find AI is not so bad in latest version of Trinity.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting sansonnet, reply 8
I usually play against hard AI  players, and they improve their planets as well. I find AI is not so bad in latest version of Trinity.

For those that just bought the game, the AI is "not so bad". Indeed.

But good players understand that the AI is, frankly, pretty horrible at strategy and tactics, compared to how a decent player would act.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Wrath89, reply 9


But good players understand that the AI is, frankly, pretty horrible at strategy and tactics, compared to how a decent player would act.

i can vouch for that, once had a starbase at a plasma storm choke point, the AI just kept sending in a midi fleets with a 15+ carrier escort, slaughtered, damn near almost made me fell sorry for them. And the did it 5 time!

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Wrath89, reply 9

Quoting sansonnet, reply 8I usually play against hard AI  players, and they improve their planets as well. I find AI is not so bad in latest version of Trinity.

For those that just bought the game, the AI is "not so bad". Indeed.

But good players understand that the AI is, frankly, pretty horrible at strategy and tactics, compared to how a decent player would act.

 

That's why I can still enjoy playing games. I'm not an expert so I always find challenge in very good games like Sins as a single player :)

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting trigorin, reply 11
That's why I can still enjoy playing games. I'm not an expert so I always find challenge in very good games like Sins as a single player

But you're missing out on like 80% of the strategic depth Sins has to offer if you only play single-player!

8|

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Wrath89, reply 12

Quoting trigorin, reply 11That's why I can still enjoy playing games. I'm not an expert so I always find challenge in very good games like Sins as a single player

But you're missing out on like 80% of the strategic depth Sins has to offer if you only play single-player!

A lot of people play Sins to watch fleet battles, not necessarily for the strategy. At least that's what I find myself doing in leisurely AI games. And in that role it AI really works quite well.

 

 

Further, I advise that the Devs add custom map sharing to Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion.

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

The AI for the game really isn't so bad if you turn off starbases.  Unfortunately the only way to really do that is to play Vanilla Sins which means you can't enjoy the Diplomacy additions.  However, you could just play without building your own starbases, though the AI will waste its own money building them.

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting DirtySanchezz, reply 14
The AI for the game really isn't so bad if you turn off starbases.  Unfortunately the only way to really do that is to play Vanilla Sins which means you can't enjoy the Diplomacy additions.  However, you could just play without building your own starbases, though the AI will waste its own money building them.

That's definitely good practice, even for multiplayer to an extent (if you force yourself to rely entirely on your fleet to counter the AI's large but mismanaged one).