New Victory Concept: Titan Victory

from Sins Forums

Though it has already been indicated that the existing shorter game victory condition is to be heavily revised, I wondered if we could consider an additional victory condition based on the new Titan feature.

The Titans are super-powerful starships, but by their very scale they also remind me of the Wonders from Age of Empires.  If you haven't played AoE, the first civilisation to construct a Wonder would win, if wonder victories were enabled and the Wonder stood for a sufficient length of time, as counted down on the game screen.

I'm not sure that we could use that concept as it is- Wonders were stationary, while it can be very annoying to have to chase ships from gravwell to gravwell when they are immune to damage some of the time.  Also, adding an on-screen timer would be a novelty, but more simply players might want to utilise Titans for their impressive combat potential rather than as elusive monuments.

I've also long wanted to get artifacts more into the game, especially since the development of pacts, as artifacts aren't even as useful as they were previously.  So how about the following victory condition for shorter games:  a team or faction win if their side has the only Titan or Titans in the game, and their opponents control no artifacts at all? 

That seems to me to have the virtues of being easy to understand and producing shorter games, while permitting further combat after the building of a Titan.  The objective would be to have the Titan heading off for final battles at any artifact planets owned by enemies.  Artifact incidence is high enough to allow it to be almost certain that players could find at least one before the late game, I feel, unless on a map so small that Titans would not likely figure anyway.  There would have to be a Titan warning like the superweapon test warning, but I'm fairly sure that is planned anyway.

Any obvious drawbacks?

13,869 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Interesting idea and I like it.  All players start the game with one titan and the last one to lose theirs wins. If this were a game mode, you'd either have to restrict the building of defenses or some how encourage players to actively use their titans in battle but it that were achievable, it sounds like fun. There is another rts which had a similar mode.. maybe it was age of empires, where each player starts with a king and the goal is to kill the other players king. 

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

I also wouldn't mind a victory condition related to controlling a majority of artifacts. 

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

I like SteelFin's idea, but it would be hard to implement, I think. You'd have to teach the AI not to build so many static defenses and up the fleet count to compensate.

Or just edit Gameplay and table as follows, as an example:

 

table-Titan

BuildShip 20

BuildModuleTactical 0

BuildModuleCivilian ?

BuildModuleResearch ?

UpgradeResearch ?

UpgradePlanetArtifactLevel ?

UpgradePlanetPopulation ?

UpgradePlanetInfastructure ?

MaxBountyBidCount 10

UpgradeStarBase ?

BuildMines ?

UpgradeTitan 10

DefendTitan 10

 

etc...

 

Or maybe add BuildTitan with a value of 0-to-1, with 0 being Do Not Build, and 1 Being Build.

 

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

I'd say one of each artifact should trigger artifact victory.  As for titan, I dont kn9ow, I haven't give a thought as to how they will work yet.  I'm more along the wait and see line of thinking.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Good luck

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

To be clear, what I am proposing is a short game where you win if you have built a Titan and the opposition have no Titan and own no artifact, not a game where players start with a Titan.

Regicide might not be a bad way to play Sins though.  It doesn't have to be hard to implement.  Just have a five-ten minute period of grace from the start of the game, and after that any side without any capitals or Titans is out.

It might be much easier to have the ownership of one artifact deny others victory rather than to have a solely artifact-based victory, due to the way artifact distribution is set up in the game.  At least, you'd need special maps that were suitable for artifact wins, not that this needs any further work other than designating some planets as artifact planets witha 100% chance and removing the possibility of artifacts from the rest.

From what I know of the AI it may be better to bring it along in standard games rather than to complicate matters, so regicide or artifact games might have to be multiplayer-only.  

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

so, build titan, search world, insta win

sounds like whichever faction has a better anti economy rush wins

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

No... thats not how it would work, you don't need an artifact as well to win.  If there was the prospect of a 'Titan rush' then the Titan victory might not be viable, however an empire with 5-6 planets already has a very good chance of containing an artifact planet.  Perhaps you should have to have an artifact of your own to win, however the order would then be search world then build Titan (or vice versa) and insta win only if noone else has an artifact of their own.   

As I originally stated it, any empire that had an artifact could deny a Titan victory.  If your side had no artifacts then the opposition could build a Titan and when it was finished they would win instantly.  However the warning that it was being built would allow time for an artifact search. 

If you have an artifact you cannot lose to a Titan victory.  If you have your own Titan you cannot lose to a Titan victory even if the opposition have an artifact.  Clear?

What I would expect is for the opposition to have one or more artifacts before a Titan is completed.  The Titan could then rumble its way to just those worlds and bombard them for victory, rather than having to take over an entire empire.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

One problem I see is that the Vasari could just Kostura in a titan to any planet they wanted, such as artifact worlds

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting AdmiralAckbar42, reply 9
One problem I see is that the Vasari could just Kostura in a titan to any planet they wanted, such as artifact worlds

"Problem"? More like "quick way to end a game that was decided long ago" if there are enough resources and time to build a Titan. Probably.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

There would also have to be no enemy factions with a Titan, and for the Kostura move to win the enemy would have to be down to their last artifact.  However it is a consideration, and I have asked for posts to highlight potential problems.  The 'hold artifact' aspect is partly to allow enemy factions time to complete their own Titan, so any potential reduction of that time is significant.  Of course, the Vasari can just Kostura to where the enemy Titan is being constructed as well, I'm not sure how this will be dealt with in Rebellion?

The Kostura would seem to be more of an issue when it comes to 'King of the Hill' style, perhaps?

But Wrath is right, if the object is to have a quick victory, you have to ensure that the victory is somewhat... sudden.  It would be optional, after all.