Diplomacy / Rebellion

Rebellion isn't out yet.  Hopefully, the gameplay elements of Diplomacy aren't in, but only the memory optimization.

Assuming it's built the same way Entrenchment and Diplomacy are, yeah Rebellion will have everything from Diplomacy in.

Thanks for the replies! To be honest, I already feared what Kitkun says... I only hope that Rebellion's content will make Diplomacy's one bearable.

What is it you dislike about Diplo?

That entire thread and the entirety of the posts in the diplomacy section support that the memory optimization only should go into Rebellion.  Entrenchment is great, improve some of the 'diplomacy' there and chuck the rest.  Use the envoy ship meshes, dump the abilties, dump the pacts.  Diplomacy is the Highlander II of Sins of a Solar Empire.

Many of Diplomacy's elements rarely get in the way if you ignore them, the exception being the whole feed research issue. Personally I rarely even use the elements of Diplomacy and I always use the Diplomacy .exe.

I suspect that some players mild dislike for Diplomacy has to do with the fact that only with the last four patches did the Diplomacy content finally start becoming useable, and even then things like pacts are still rarely used. Diplomacy ICO games often play like Entrenchment ones with a research requirement for feed from what I have heard the ICO veterans say and from what I have experienced.

Well, two things:

1) I don't know how long a common online battle lasts, but our matches on Hamachi drag on for no more than 3/4 hours (and we always close with a forfeit, when it's absolutely clear that a player can't survive the invasion, no matter how many planets/resouces he has). Playing Diplomacy doesn't appeal that much to us because, as it has already been stated, many of its features require too much micromanagament/discussion for our tastes. Staying alive, making sure not to be backstabbed at the first occasion and managing two or three borders at a time is already enough to occupy 100% of our brain cells (at least that is true for me and a friend of mine).

2) As I already said in the first post, we feel that Entrenchment has everything we could ever need to virtually beat each other to a pulp. Learning and consequently using to its fullest all of Diplomacy's content would require too much time to discover and study strategies. Since we would need to play a lot by ourselves against the AI to learn some tricks, we would need to drop the multiplayer part for some months (in order not to be confused when we play the "older" Entrenchment).

3) Since all of us have extensively played Risk for years, we are quite prone to the aforementioned backstabbing and quick changes of alliances and tactics. We believe that Diplomacy's help is unneeded.

Rebellion will include the Diplomacy content as the features are built on-top of one another.  Several of the gameplay additions in Rebellion tie into the updated diplomacy system as well.

As others have stated, however, it's pretty easy to ignore the Diplomacy game mechanics if you want. They're not forced on you; with the last updates to that code, it makes the AI players less bizarre in their actions.

Has everyone forgoten Pacts?

Even in locked teams these things are worth it.

Hell Envoy abilites are great for boosting your economy and your allies.

I dont see how people complain Diplomacy brought nothing to the table. Unless your playing 1v1, there is alot Diplomacy brought combat wise.

I feel people are turned off b/c there no slap down unit in this expansion much like there was in Entrechment and will be in Rebellion.

On a side note good to hear more love for the Diplomacy Tree, my Civilain Labs thank you.

People like the pew pew.

Exactly. Also, the bigger the better.

Yeah, I don't get the diplo hate either.  I just finished a 2 hour game on ICO where the game was pretty much decided by our team getting pacts.  All the first level upgrades are amazing (heck, Advent Research Pact is like Data Archive), and armor pact is awesome and at a low amount.  I find pacts very useful, and if you're TEC and you're my ally, I will DEMAND you research settlers.

I can see someone hating the more complex mission system or resource sharing, but I generally find Diplo to be okay.

If I want to ignore it, I do.

If not, then the envoys act as a great boost that's much easier to manage than constant missions.

And the pacts? I was surprised to see someone shoot at the pacts since they can be the edge you need in the late game.

My dad is a Diplo hater cause he's broken down to playing the simplest RTS games, coming to hate anything micromanaged. Age of Empires 3 and Dawn of War are as complex as he likes. Having played RTS and 4x (and some nice go betweens), I find SoaSE to be close enough to an RTS that a little extra 4x doesn't hurt.