Game speed is much faster in the first minute of MP games than it should be

On ICO, that is.

When I play single player on Faster everything, I always have enough time from the first second of the game to

(1) queue capital ship and frigates

(2) manually order my 2 scouts to adjacent gravity wells

(3) sell metal

(4) build 2 research stations

(6) set HW rally point to another unexplored planet, or edge of gravity well

After this, I usually have about 2 to 4 seconds before my first scout is built. But when I join or start up a game on ICO, I never have this much time, and my credits seem to be increasing at like 50 to 60 per second (2 to 3 "game-seconds" per IRL-second), and my ships get finished and arrive and fire and die much, much sooner - I can't keep up. Even once my new scouts start getting built, it's somewhat difficult to finish giving them scouting orders before the next scout is built. I've been practicing my early-game strategy a whole lot on SP and have gotten really good at it, I think, but am having serious difficulties transitioning to multiplayer due to the extreme speed increase (despite having practiced on "Faster" and also playing "Faster" online)

On ICO, the first minute or two or three of the game goes by much, much faster than normal - definitely faster than it should.

This is my credit income speed during single player:

As you can see, there is about one 'tic' per second, just as it should be. The income infocard says my credit income rate is 19.3 per second, which is what it is.

But this is my credit income speed at the beginning of games on ICO:

These .gifs are both direct screengrabs from the game.

Here, there are a lot more 'tics' per IRL second, translating to something like 40 or 50 credits per second in income. The income infocard still says the income rate is 19.3 per second. (but that of course really means "19.3 credits in income per tic")

After doing a number of tests, I think I've figured out the cause of this problem. This very-fast speed (that I, for one, experience on ICO) lasts for a varying amount of time. If I am hosting the game and this instance of the Sins program has not yet loaded a game before, the loading screen with the art lasts for about 20 seconds, and the increased game speed lasts until I get 4000 - 4300 credits (if nothing is bought). That's if all effects are off and if all quality settings are set to 'low' - otherwise, it lasts significantly longer. Once I got 10000 credits without the very-fast-speed wearing off - it would have created SERIOUS problems had I been playing for real. If the program has loaded a game before and I'm hosting, the loading screen lasts only for a few seconds and the very-fast-speed lasts only a short amount of time, until around 3400 credits. If someone else hosts the game, the very-fast-speed lasts somewhat longer, maybe 10 or 15 seconds longer.

The actual numbers don't matter all that much, but they do point to the cause: Online, the game appears to be initialized the moment the host presses "Start". Not when the host's game is loaded, or when all players' games are loaded: the server starts the game immediately when the button is pressed. Due to the time required for loading graphics, etc., this means that at the very beginning of the game, everyone is (basically) lagging compared to the server, including the host, and so all players see an increased game speed to compensate for not being quite up-to-date with the server.

At least, that's the conclusion I've reached given how my game acts. I've talked to some people who say they've experience something similar - I'm assuming this is universal.

If this is indeed a problem common for all players, then I can think of a couple of very simple solutions off the top of my head.

First, players, when logging on to ICO, should be required to load a psuedo-game so that all the graphics and stuff are loaded and in the program when they start a real game on ICO: this way, the loading screen with the art should only last for an instant. This is only necessary if the player has not started a game yet (SP or MP or anything) with that instance of their Sins program. The ICO loading screen could just be the regular loading graphic art with a caption of "Precaching resources" or something, after which the player would be put into the default ICO chat room like normal - they wouldn't actually see anything of the psuedo-game that was loaded.

Secondly, the server should start in a "paused" state. This could last for a specific period of time, like 10 seconds. It could also "pause" until all clients report being loaded and ready - that would be a more elegant solution, but would probably require more programming. But if the psuedo-game loading is implemented, all players' loading times should be similar and very short, so a set pause time of 10 seconds would be sufficient.

Either one of these would be a very welcome addition to Sins multiplayer.

(I sure hope I'm not the only one experiencing this, else I'll look quite silly)

32,846 views 23 replies
Reply #1 Top

As you stated, players who are lagging see normal speed, while players not lagging see insanely fast speeds.

I really don't see much of a problem with the increased speeds, as everyone has been complaining that multiplayer is dying because games are too slow...

If Iron/dock have fixed it to be this way, its because we asked for it.

Reply #2 Top

Quoting KrdaxDrkrun, reply 1
As you stated, players who are lagging see normal speed, while players not lagging see insanely fast speeds.

I really don't see much of a problem with the increased speeds, as everyone has been complaining that multiplayer is dying because games are too slow...

If Iron/dock have fixed it to be this way, its because we asked for it.

It makes sense for that to be a general solution to lag, but the problem here is that (so it seems), everyone would experience insanely fast speeds at the beginning of the game.

Reply #3 Top

True, but as I stated, we might have actually asked for this increased MP speed.

Reply #4 Top

Quoting KrdaxDrkrun, reply 3
True, but as I stated, we might have actually asked for this increased MP speed.

Well, we got Faster, didn't we? :)

And I'm fine with that, and with the lag compensation, when it's necessary - it's just that at the very beginning of the game, it's not necessary... which is why I think there should be a delay or preloading, especially since MM at the very beginning of the game is much more important.

Reply #5 Top

I noticed this as well, this is a bug, and I for one hate it.  Everything else about the game seems to be going faster as well.  I can't even retreat my halcyon the moment an enemy force enters the grav well before it dies.  I have always  been able to do this...and now its all screwed up. 

I never asked for this type of increased speed, and we got our "requests" answered when the speeds were increased in diplomacy.  Personally I believe the ICO server has been compromised by hackers from what i've been seeing happen online in the last few days.

Reply #6 Top

I'm not quite sure what you could do to a server to prompt it to screw up your game's internal clocks.

Reply #7 Top

i don't think its the game's internal clock at all, and there are plenty of ways to create time lags in networks.  I wouldn't be surprised at all if there are a few hacker's who are screwing with the game and its network infrastructure using it to their advantage.

What annoying lil pieces of shit.

Reply #8 Top

Just happened to me again. It went on for about 15 MINUTES before it went back to normal, completely screwing up my early game, which I'm normally quite good at. I even had to recolonize an asteroid after it was bombed out by a neutral siege frigate - time was passing too quickly to even build a turret.

Reply #9 Top

Just become an Asian and do that click thing for 150 APM. Deal with it. :P

Reply #10 Top

I've also been experiencing crazy speeds on ICO but not only, also in private MP games. Annoying...

Reply #11 Top

There was a patch over a year ago which introduced faster gaming speeds for the first 15 mins on ICO using Alloy. 

You can always queue instructions before  a game starts in ico if your computer loaded the game faster then the other person.  If everyone's computer in the game are fast, or played a previous game before yours meaning the game has been loaded to memory already, then you dont get the build queue time and the game starts immediately.

Reply #12 Top

I like that fast game speed you get early on within the game. The start of the game is where I believe 80% of the time is where the winner and loser is put into place. Just adapt into it. 

 

if you can't adapt, then MR T will be coming for you.

Reply #13 Top

This speed issue is by design, as each client catches up to the server and vice versa.  It's not something we'll be able to address.

Reply #14 Top

I have seen this occasionally though it is often not too big of an issue.

Reply #15 Top

Quoting Yarlen, reply 13
This speed issue is by design, as each client catches up to the server and vice versa.  It's not something we'll be able to address.

The way the game changes speeds to coordinate all games is fine - it's a smart way to resolve connection and lag issues.

The problem is that all players' games start out lagging compared to the server when starting a game, so it seems, which appears to result in 1 minute or 5 or 10 minutes of going twice as fast as normal for all players.

What I'm saying is that all games should be coordinated with the server from the start of the game. The speed compensation makes good sense if unexpected lag happens - but it shouldn't be something that has to happen in the first 5 or more minutes of every single game.

Reply #16 Top

Another problem this creates: if your computer isn't that good, then especially if you're playing larger games, this "lag compensation" at the beginning actually creates *significantly more* CPU lag because the game is running 2x or 3x faster than normal: your computer is significantly more stressed just like when playing speeded-up replays. In a 5v5 on a relatively poor computer, this can be killer, especially if this beginning lag compensation lasts for more than a few minutes, which happens relatively often in larger games.

Reply #17 Top

if you want a slow game, play "EVE TITAN PILOT". 

Create Account and plan for 2.5 year subscription
Buy $1000 in GTC for skills and titan
After 2.5 of training, finally board titan

Get into fleet battle, lag out 2 minutes in and wake up in station totally *'d because in all that time you never upgraded you clone.

 

Reply #18 Top

The effect of this is the same as when you pause an ICO game for a significant period of time. It's like the server coordinating the game thinks the game time should be 20:00 when you've simply paused the game for 2 minutes at 18:00... so when you unpause the game runs much faster than normal for like 4 minutes in an attempt to catch up.

This makes decent gameplay much harder. Micro is difficult if not impossible if everything is moving at twice to 3x the speed it normally is.

Reply #19 Top

That some who is not lagging gets punished with faster game speed does not make any sense. Other multiplayer games don't do weird game speed things like Sins. I'm playing games online for more than a decade and never seen something like increasing game speed from lagging or unpausing.

Reply #20 Top

Slight necro, but I really hate this too, I can't possibly give orders fast enough to compete with someone who is lagging. I know you guys have a lot to do with Rebellion, but it would be nice if you could do something.

Reply #21 Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 20
Slight necro, but I really hate this too, I can't possibly give orders fast enough to compete with someone who is lagging. I know you guys have a lot to do with Rebellion, but it would be nice if you could do something.

This also increases the advantage of macro users over regular players.  Its a bit of a necro though :)

 

Reply #22 Top

And don't you dare pause in a coop game to go to the bathroom or grab a drink, or you will be playing at warp speed for the next 25 minutes of the game.  This 'feature' breaks the game in my opinion.  This kind of speeding up doesn't happen when I pause a game of Company of Heroes or any other RTS for that matter, so I don't understand why it is so un-fixable.  I have had a lot of games ruined by this.

Reply #23 Top

And sorry to sound bitter, but I have been a faithful player sins the original Sins came out, and this issue has been consistently annoying. I do appreciate your hard work.