Yarlen Yarlen

Sins of a Solar Empire: Trinity/Diplomacy v1.3 Change Log

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Sins of a Solar Empire: Trinity/Diplomacy v1.3 Change Log

from Sins Forums

Ironclad Games and Stardock Entertainment are pleased to present the change log for Sins of a Solar Empire: Trinity/Diplomacy version 1.3!  This is a major gameplay update for Sins that practically rewrites much of the original design and balance for the game.

NOTE:  THIS UPDATE WILL BREAK SAVE GAMES AND REPLAYS

 [ Gameplay ]

  • Updated Diplomacy System - Substantially redesigned and rebalanced all the additions made in the Diplomacy expansion.
    • Relationship Factors: Changed to be more granular/randomized, based more on racial lore and take more internal gameplay actions into account.
      • Diplomatic Inclination:  Reduced to a range between -0.10 and +0.25, randomized on game start. This is a starting factor that represents pre-existing like/dislike between factions based on previous (lore) interactions.
      • Racial Inclination: Substantially revised to represent the amount of innate tension/hostility between the races at start of Diplomacy's timeline. Players of the same race will always like one another somewhat, whereas players of differing races will mistrust or hate one another to some degree based upon lore (i.e., Advent hate TEC, TEC hate Advent, Vasari tend to dislike other races to some extent as they're viewed as inferior).
      • Adjacent Territory: Penalty reduced based on distance between players.
      • Missions:  Updated Mission system (See below). Value varies based on conditions. Mission relationship bonuses can count over the +10.0 limit towards Pacts.
      • Mission Rejections:  Value decreased from -0.25 per rejection to -0.10; capped at -1.5.
      • Fleet Strength:  A ratio between each player's total to used fleet points. Formula revised to be less influential.
      • Military Actions:  Variable factor that is now immediately based on players' military actions.
        • Destroying another player's enemy's ships grants a bonus to relations (based on the fleet supply of the destroyed vessel).
        • Destroying another player's friend's ships gives a relations penalty (based on the fleet supply of the destroyed vessel).
        • Destroying enemy/friendly civilian or tactical structures or planets now grants a set relations bonus/penalty as appropriate. 
      • Diplomatic Actions: Variable bonus or penalty that now updates throughout the game based on the players' non-military actions. Becoming closer with another player's enemies will make that player like you less and vice versa.  Values are based on active treaties and pacts.
      • Resources Given:  No major changes.  Positive relations is based on the units provided with credits being worth the least and crystal the most. Resource relations bonuses degrade over time.
      • Envoy Bonus:  No major changes to what this includes. See below for Envoy ability changes. Envoy bonuses count over the +10.0 limit towards Pacts and will degrade if the Envoy leaves the gravity well.
      • Research Bonus:  Static relationship bonuses that now affect both the player doing the research and other players' opinions.  Values have been reduced per tech level. The Research Bonus can count over the +10.0 limit towards Pacts.
      • AI Relationship Bonus:  This value only affects AI players and gives AI to AI relations an increasing amount of relations over time, capped to a maximum.  The speed of the increase is based on the AI's difficulty level.
    • Envoy Changes:
      • All Envoy cruisers fleet supply cost reduced from 12 to 8.
      • Envoy cruiser build time reduced to 63 seconds.
      • TEC Envoy Abilities
        • Worthy Cause - Now decreases building costs within the gravity well by 15% for 60 seconds in exchange for a +0.03 relationship bonus per use.
        • Arbitrate Tariff - Now increases trade and refinery ship income by 15% for 60 seconds in exchange for a +0.05 relationship bonus per use.
        • Settlers (Passive) - Now increases the planet's maximum population by 25% for as long as the envoy is in the gravity well (bonus immediately vanishes otherwise) in exchange for a +0.10 relationship bonus.
      • Vasari Envoy Abilities
        • Mutual Threat - Changed to tech level 3. Now increases ship build rates and resource extraction rates within the gravity well by 25% for 60 seconds in exchange for a +0.03 relationship bonus per use.
        • Nanomedicine Outreach - Changed to tech level 4. Now heals planets by +25 HP/sec over 40 seconds in exchange for a 0.05 relationship bonus.
        • Grant Amnesty - Replaced (see below).
        • Xeno Defense (Passive) - Added to tech level 5. Grants the planet +1,000 HP in exchange for a +0.10 relationship bonus. These HP are immediately lost if the Envoy leaves the gravity well.
      • Advent Envoy Abilities
        • Cultural Assistance - Now decreases planetary upgrade costs by 10% and upgrade time by 5% (under Planetary Development) for 60 seconds in exchange for a +0.03 relationship bonus per use.
        • Sacrifice - Replaced (see below).
        • Harmony - Added to tech level 4. Grants the gravity well a 5% bonus to passive antimatter, shield, and HP regen rates for 120 seconds in exchange for a +0.05 relationship bonus per use.
        • Quell Unrest - Replaced (see below).
        • Cultural Integrity - Added to tech level 5. Makes the gravity well's planet immune to bombardment for 45 seconds in exchange for a +0.10 relationship bonus per use.
    • Pacts:
      • Pacts will now automatically break - without relationship penalty - if the relationship between both players drops below a certain threshold (typically 4.0 points below the amount needed to establish the pact).
      • Pacts that are intentionally canceled by a player will now incur a -3.0 relationship penalty.
      • Pacts now require that both players achieve the minimum required relationship level to form an agreement.
      • TEC Pacts -
        • Trade Pact: Relationship requirement reduced to 10.0. Now grants a 15% bonus to trade income, a 10% bonus to trade/refinery ship HP, and +2 to base armor for trade/refinery ships.
        • Metal Pact:  Discontinued (see below).
        • Efficiency Pact: Added to tech level 4; requires relationship of 11.0. Grants a 10% speed increase to structure and ship build rates.
        • Missile Pact: Discontinued (see below).
        • Armor Pact: Added to tech level 5; requires relationship of 13.0. Grants +2 to base armor, 20% bonus HP per Armor Point to a maximum of 200 HP. Affects ships and starbases only (does not affect squadrons).
        • Siege Pact: Requires relationship of 14.5.  Now increases planetary bombing damage by 10%, reduces bombing damage to owned planets by 10%, reduced population killed by bombing on owned planets by 10% and increases planetary bombing range by 5%.
        • Advanced Thrusters Pact:  Added to tech level 7; requires relationship of 16.0. Boosts capital ship speed and maneuverability by 15%.
        • Supply Pact: Requires relationship of 18.0. Now reduces fleet supply upkeep costs by 15% and increases fleet supply by 100.
      • Vasari Pacts -
        • Resource Pact: Requires relationship of 11.0. Now grants a 10% bonus to metal and crystal extraction rates and a 15% bonus to refinery ship cargo capacity.
        • Pricing Pact:  New Pact added to tech level 4; requires relationship level of 12.0. Grants a 10% reduction to purchase prices on the black market for metal/crystal.
        • Phase Pact: Requires relationship level of 14.0. Now grants the use of ally phase gate/stabilizer connections, gives a 10% reduction to phase space jump range (within the gravity well), and decreases phase jump charge times by 20%.
        • Nano Technology Pact:  Discontinued.
        • Tactical Pact: Requires a relationship of 15.0. Now gives a 10% bonus to base weapon damage from tactical structures, increases tactical structure HP by 5% and increases tactical structure base armor by +2.
        • Structure Pact:  Discontinued.
        • Pulse Pact:  Added to tech level 7; requires relationship of 18.0. Grants a 10% bonus to weapon cooldown for Wave, FlashBeam, Plasma, LaserPsi, PulseGun and LaserTech weapon types.
        • Armament Pact:  Requires relationship of 19.0. Now grants +1 targets per bank for all capital ships and starbases.
      • Advent Pacts -
        • Research Pact: Requires relationship of 10.5. Now grants a 15% bonus to research speed and reduces research costs by 5%.
        • Culture Pact: Moved to tech level 5; requires relationship of 11.5. Now grants a 5% bonus to maximum planet allegiance from culture, a 5% bonus to culture resistance, and a 2% bonus to weapon damage while in your culture.
        • Antimatter Pact: Moved to tech level 6; requires relationship of 13.0. Now increases antimatter capacity by 20% and increases passive antimatter regen rate by 5%.
        • Mass Reduction Pact:  Added to tech level 5; requires relationship of 15.0. Reduces the mass for capital ships by 10%.
        • Beam Pact:  Discontinued.
        • Energy Pact:  Added to tech level 7; requires relationship of 17.5. Grants a 10% bonus to weapon damage for LaserPsi, LaserTech, FlashBeam, Beam, Wave, PulseGun and Plasma weapon types.
        • Anima Pact:  Discontinued.
        • Shield Pact:  Requires relationship of 18.0. Now grants a 10% bonus to maximum shield points, a 5% bonus to passive shield point regen, and a 10% phase missile block.
    • Missions:
      • Updated the Mission system to make it easier to understand/use, especially for AI players.
      • Missions now have fixed costs and rewards based on mission type and level.
      • Added Destroy Capital Ships mission type.
      • Added Send Envoy mission type.
      • Increased mission times substantially based on mission difficulty.
      • Reduced Mission Rejection penalty from -0.25 to -0.10 with a cap of -1.50 total.
      • Added reward bonus for completing missions based on current relationship levels. The higher your relationship with another player, the greater the bonus.
      • Mission failure relationship penalties are now half the reward by default.
      • Updated Resource Missions to give variable relationship rewards based on the amount and type of resources requested. Note - Both players must research the required tech before resource missions can be given/accepted.
      • Created new AI decision tree that allows AI players to better evaluate missions and decide if they will attempt to complete them or not. AI players will now immediately reject a mission they don't intend to attempt.
    • Treaties:  Now require that both players have the minimum required relationship level.
    • Updated various flavor text to make more sense with the changes.
    • Added a bunch of new race specific flavor text for missions and pacts.
    • Changed late game research that negated racial inclination penalty to only reduce it by 75%.
    • Added second research level to each race's third relationship tech and rebalanced each.
    • Allies may now send each other missions in locked team games.
  • Constructor Frigates:  Added new ability called Deconstruct. Will automatically cause constructors to tear down enemy structures within the gravity well (when you conquer a planet) so long as it can't fire back. Gives the current owner 5% of the structure's original construction cost.
  • Fixed bug in the Pirate Manifest for research and sound issues.
  • Increased Advent Illuminator front bank damage from 53.5 to 64.2.
  • Increased the antimatter reserves and passive regen rates on all race's hangar bays.
  • Time between AIs offering the player a mission has been increased from 3 minutes to 5 minutes (after completing or rejecting a mission).
  • Starbase trade research costs rebalanced for their respective tech levels. 
  • Advent starbase culture upgrade research cost increased for its respective tech level.
  • Increased the cost of the Vasari starbase Phase Stabilizer research to match its tech level.
  • Fixed a bug (we hope) where the Pirate Mission timer wasn't getting respected for player assigned missions.

[ Graphics ]

  • Added new icon for Deconstruct.
  • Added new icons for new Pacts and Envoy abilities.
  • Added shield meshes for all race's Envoy cruisers.

[ Interface ]

  • Updated Relationship screen to be less confusing. Should make it clearer what's being shown and how to interpret the info.
  • Updated Relationship InfoCards:  They now display both factions' current relations with one another, use proper faction icons and player colors.

[ AI ]

  • Added Diplomacy Mission Decision system.  AI players will now evaluate and complete missions they deem are worthy (based largely on relationship).
  • AI players will now build superweapons!
  • Various other tweaks.
422,589 views 146 replies
Reply #76 from Sins Forums Top

You can hit the 'edit' button on the bottom of your posts instead of posting again.

Quoting InvalidSN, reply 72
Do envoy bonuses stack? IE, a Vasari envoy, his Advent envoy ally , and  his TEC envoy ally all sent to a 4th player ally's planet. Do they stack? And if they do, is it one per race? IE, three Vasari envoys (of all different allied players) send to a 4th player ally's planet.
Envoy relation bonuses only affect the player who sent the envoy, so they don't stack. The abilities can all be active at once, though.

 

:fox:

Reply #77 from Sins Forums Top

Where's my drooling smiley ? oooh there : :drool:

I really love this new patch, it was worth the wait and I'm in a hurry to test it !!!! <3 Stardock / Ironclad RULEZZZ !!!!

Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #78 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Kitkun, reply 68
So I'm playing around and... pretty sure the shield pact is bugged. As in, increasing the chance of everything going through your shields. Whoopsie.

 

Ouch! Don't activate adaptive shield now either 8(|

Reply #79 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting boshimi336, reply 48
Des Conner does bring up a point I am concerned about though. In long drawn out single player games, regardless of missions and alliances will all of the AI eventually ally up? Wouldn't this then turn them against the player in the end leaving him alone facing off against all of the other AI? This is perhaps the one most unsettling issue I have with this patch. Everything else is an improvement in my eyes.

 

Yarlen? Thoughts?

The AI will not ally itself up automatically. The system it uses is largely out of the players' hands, though we did make it take relations into some account.  During playtesting, AI players would typically only ally with 1 or 2 other AI players.

Reply #80 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 78

Ouch! Don't activate adaptive shield now either 8(|

Adaptive forcefield is fine...it is not a game engine error, it is entirely a text issue...the "ChanceToIgnoreShieldsAsDamageTarget" modifier for the pact simply should be a negative, not a positive number...

Yarlen, please tell me you guys will hotfix this (and, well, fixing the typos would be nice too)...

Reply #81 from Sins Forums Top

We're looking at it, thanks for the feedback all. Keep it coming! :)

Reply #82 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 80
Adaptive forcefield is fine

Edit- checking to make sure nothing wonky happened on my side.

Reply #83 from Sins Forums Top

Epic, just got on today and saw the update.

Reply #84 from Sins Forums Top

Adaptive Forcefield is fine, but the Infocard info wasn't displaying as intended.

Reply #85 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Yarlen, reply 84
Adaptive Forcefield is fine, but the Infocard info wasn't displaying as intended.

Rodger.

Reply #86 from Sins Forums Top

Don't know if this was spotted but I found that TEC envoys cast Worthy Cause on your own planets.

Reply #87 from Sins Forums Top

The FFA relations system went through a stage where the AI would all team up against the player fairly quickly, to the Diplomacy stage where they would never ally and now we have this update where to me it seems that the surviving AI will ally together after some time depending on the difficulty.  This seems preferable to the first two, but it is scarcely sophisticated enough to justify an entire expansion.

I doubt that the player has the ability to split the AI once allied.  The modifer for combat actions is too small, even if the AI will accept missions against their own allies.  Also, once the AI achieve ceasefire you get to a take-off point where they add in envoys and trade, and if I am right it would be impossible for the combat modifier to shift this back below cease fire level.  Further, one of the genuine improvements that has been made in this patch is that the AI seems far quicker to get to the general research upgrades, from the limited testing I have done.  This is also a factor in their eventual and inevitable alliance, the research bonuses are just so much more significant than any combat events.

With the research and AI bonuses the AI are far more competitive in the Diplomatic Victory stakes, which just makes it rather more evident how empty the entire Diplomatic Victory condition is.  You get points from factions that hate you, and if they hate you less than your rivals, you can end up winning on that basis.   No other game will ever use this system.  It is silly, it should be ditched.

What you would need to split up the AI might be sufficient weight attached to combat and diplomatic actions, and also to adjacency.  There should also be penalties for the fleet and economic #1 and #2 spots.   What the update seems to have done is to minimise these factors so that they don't get in the way of the first cease fires, which are achieved with sufficient research and AI bonus.  However, once minimised they cannot then affect the game as it progresses.  It might be an idea to scale these factors along with the AI bonus, that might help considerably. 

If the relations system takes game events like adjacency, strength and combat as its most significant elements, then it will be more sensitive.  If it relies more on the progression of research and the additions to the AI bonus then it will be more a matter of time than actions. 

I haven't tested this update enough to be able to come to final conclusions, these are my impressions.  However I doubt that the small update team have had much opportunity to playtest either.  I know what I saw on the playtest I ran, the factions being eliminated were giving positive points to everyone in terms of Diplomatic Victory and the determining factor in their survival was going to be whether research and AI bonus factors became large enough before they were defeated.  To make it clear, even though these factions were on the brink of being eliminated, military actions were not a significant element in their diplomatic relations.  That is just wrong.  

One major problem is that there have been few indications of how the relations system is supposed to function, so it is difficult to help to debug.  I'd particularly like more detail on adjacency and combat.  For example, how is adjacency measured, is it updated during the game?  Also which of the relations modifiers degrade over time?  I know that the effect of credit donations degrades, but do any others?  Is this 'HUMAN' feature on the relations details screen meant to be there- wouldn't 'DEFEATED' serve the purpose better?  HUMAN made me wonder if it was referring to the Humane Society... 

 

Reply #88 from Sins Forums Top

I don't think that you can have a better relationship with yourself...

:grin:

Reply #89 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting DesConnor, reply 87

I doubt that the player has the ability to split the AI once allied.  The modifer for combat actions is too small, even if the AI will accept missions against their own allies.
 

-10 is too small a modifier? Considering the AI bonus is capped at +5 I don't think that it can completely negate its effects. Also did you try a game with a limited number of victors? If there is no limit technically the best thing for everyone to do is too ally up.

Reply #90 from Sins Forums Top 
Thank you for the update. 
We enjoy it by the multi play every week. Thank you for the great game.
http://ja.justin.tv/folillust/b/290498150

There is a proposal about the pact system. 
Relationship using a huge resource, pact research is done by using a huge resource,
the pact bonus will be obtained.
It proposes the change in the method of the pact system. 

  • The other party obtains the bonus when making an pact.
    Relationship each other increases.
  • An increasing relationship decreases if the pact is annulled.
    A relationship decreases greatly when annulling it from me.
  • All the pact do not need researching.
    The relationship is not needed. It is possible to select it from the start.
  • The research that lowers a relationship necessary for the agreement like the
    cease-fire and peace, etc. is added instead of losing the pact research.
  • The name of pact is changed to technical co-operation.

 

As a result, technical co-operation is enabled in doing relationship increasing from the start.
And the cease-fire agreement from the start to a powerful enemy(difficulty level AI) are
enabled for a little while. 
Afterwards, the envoy cruisers is sent and the research that lowers a relationship necessary
for the agreement is done to prevent the agreement being released by the relationship penalty
by the military power difference and the
game elapsed time.
It comes to be able to choose not only the army power but also diplomacy to prevent a
neighboring country and a powerful country by this change, and it comes to be able to
plan diplomatic victory. 

I wanted you to hear this proposal though it might be an idea that had already been
considered on the developer side. 
The idea was not able to be told well because it was not good at English. 
Thank you for reading.
Reply #91 from Sins Forums Top

@DesConnor:

Have to agree on most of the relationship stuff. Disagree, however, on top econ spots getting a penalty; the AI is just so poor at managing it's economy that the player will almost always be in the top spots. I've achieved double the income of an unfair AI (Which gets double income cheat) with my empire at half the AI's size... and not a single trade port structure for me.

IMO, Diplomatic Victory in it's current condition just needs to be scrapped and redone.

 

:fox:

Reply #92 from Sins Forums Top

Yes! front weapon bank gets 64 for illuminator! 

Reply #93 from Sins Forums Top

shouldn't tec also hate vasari for attacking them

Reply #94 from Sins Forums Top

Have a problem, I updated through Impulse but when I try to log in to ICO it says I have an old version but in the bottom right of my sins menu says v1.3 so I know I have the right version, what do I do?

Reply #95 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 30

Quoting sareth01, reply 29Also, expect some lum spamming, i've gotta test out how effective they are now

I doubt a 1.65 frontal DPS increase is going to have a huge impact, but I've been wrong about such things before.

 

 

 They didn't say they reduced the side banks and beams don't miss hitting targets like missiles do. Its more or less balanced.
Reply #96 from Sins Forums Top

Yarlen,

Does this patch adress any of the lag or pausing that occurs in later games after several hours?

Reply #97 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Disruptor22, reply 94
Have a problem, I updated through Impulse but when I try to log in to ICO it says I have an old version but in the bottom right of my sins menu says v1.3 so I know I have the right version, what do I do?

they're ostensibly in the process of making a hotfix to the ico server

Reply #98 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Disruptor22, reply 94
Have a problem, I updated through Impulse but when I try to log in to ICO it says I have an old version but in the bottom right of my sins menu says v1.3 so I know I have the right version, what do I do?

Same for me.

Reply #99 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting a110, reply 93
shouldn't tec also hate vasari for attacking them

Shouldn't everybody just hate everybody?

Reply #100 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting KrdaxDrkrun, reply 99
Shouldn't everybody just hate everybody?
I already do!

Oh, you mean in the game...

 

:fox: