I didnt know that ilusion takes fleet suply 

CreateFrigate buffs with a non-infinite expiry time do not consume fleet supply.

If they've got culture (and culture stations) so far up that that's an issue early-game, you probably wouldn't be doing much more expanding in that direction anyway...

It would seem that illusion copies "use" fleet supply in the fleet supply breakdown screen, but don't actually consume any fleet supply...my apologies for misleading anyone...

In terms of units i think an illuminator buff required in dps if damage is split by the number of banks.

Channeling to be diabled for subjugator and preserverence to be available as soon as u research the Subjugator. The other ability should come later.

Mothership's colonizing ability should start off with 30% cost reduction instead of 15%

Disciples steal anti-matter should be tier 1 (This was by far the biggest mistake when i first saw the advent hostility tree) because it counters rushes by restricting abilities like scramble bomber and other shield/hull repair abilities by helping the advent stand a chance in the early game. This is the first major change that's needed.  

No. For starters I don't think you can target caps with this (you can target structures and frigates), for the most part all this change would do is promote more lrm spamming and keep advent at tier 0-1.

Its the same con figuration as before when u start// Scouts to counter lrm and desciple as an anti-heavy. It shocks me to hear it doesn't target caps. Why not! Someone please confirm this?

omg just how many issues can advent have

Lol @ statusipod lobbying for changes when he doesn't even know what the abilities do currently. No, the Disciple's Steal Antimatter only targets enemy frigates and cruisers. (and structures)

Which makes sense - all the other light frigates' upgradable anti-antimatter abilities target only other frigates and cruisers, else they would basically nullify the advantage of capital ships after the first few seconds of combat, which would be a serious game flaw if people could spam a few LFs to counter cap abilities.

Steal Antimatter is useful for countering carrier cruisers, and O and D support cruisers, but that's about it - so, even if available, it wouldn't be that useful very early in the game.

While Advent is definitely in need of a buff, and while moving Steal AM to a tier 1 tech would be a slight buff, I think to re-balance the factions, a significantly more fundamental Advent buff is needed.

It slips my mind sometimes after playing so much.. here i was researching steal anti-matter hoping it would steal some  from caps. Blimey.

Wow best to stick to vasari. Doesn't change the fact advent needs to be more fun to play.

It actually happens to most of us. I mix up or forget facts of sins and I heavily mod the game. I also see a lot of experienced players and modders asking for clarification on how things work still...

BTW, this ability (Steal Antimatter) has two major downsides when researched. The first is less consequential, but if you have a heavy LF fleet for damage dealing they tend to break off and go after ships with antimatter if you aren't micro'ing them. The other issue I really don't like is when they use the transfer anti-matter. This guy is channeling if you weren't aware...

It does have a check for targetting conditions of "IsDifferentRoleType", but it doesn't keep multiple Disciples from trying to fill up the same ship with a non-stacking channeling buff which could effectively lock down a lot of your damage dealing output of these guys assuming they had antimatter to transfer.

I'm not a big fan of single target channeled abilities because of this and Advent has quite a few. In another post they indicated they would look at the Subjegator and possibly channeled abilities, but thats all I know.

I like the concept of channeled abilities which is similar to channeled magic in rpgs. The problem is the stacking. This isn't evident with other abilities because the Ability is able to KNOW the intended buff is already active and is NOT stackeable. This is why multiple repair bays don't all try to repair the same ship at the same time. Make it channeled and they would.

My suggestion for this was to add a BuffTypeToQuery in this post https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/405616.

Just throwing this out here but what if:

1.  Illums were just T1 instead of 3 b/c its not as good, switch it with their Purge vessel in the tree (b/c who cares).  To make things varied, switch the Vasari siege and lrf in their tech tree.  Right now they get T1 lrf that can get phase missiles later while advent have to wait for theirs which requires 5 labs to get the special ability.  I don't remember how many labs a Destructor needs.

2.  Make the Advent scout's lingering presence tier 1 and TEC's sensor probes tier 2.  The advent has to sacrifice a scout to use their ability.  not a huge cost, but just to even things out a little.

So if i had 3 raptures with vengeance at 60%..  being attacked by a starbase that's causing 100 dps.. U saying Vengence will only activate on 1 rapture at a time .. Plz don't let be so

I have heavily considered moving illuminators to tier 2 in mods I use...the problem I have with tier 1 is that Advent has the best LF, flak (until charged missiles), and fighter...and, they benefit from best HC later on...

If illums were at tier 2, at least advent could get them up and running around the same time as TEC...they may not be as good but they still are a very important part of a good fleet composition...tier 1 I think may be too powerful...I'd rather see the illuminator slightly more useful and at tier 2 than to have it unimproved and moved to tier 1...just my opinion though...

Your right. Was thinking about this . I think its counter productive having defense vessels and carriers at tier 2 considering both offer anti-craft abilities. Tier 2 should be illuminators, drone hosts and repair platform. Defense vessels at tier 3 doesn't hurt anyone considering u can also get fighters from the Halcyon for anti-craft options. 

I would give advent earlier and more effective healing capability, and perhaps a small economic tweak to give advent SOME economic advantage in the early game....maybe a research that gives them better crystal production then other races, since TEC is great at getting creds, vasari never seem to run out of metal (usually) and everyone currently needs crystal.

Decent, earlier healers would add a lot to the early-mid game of attrition, ANYTHING to allow advent caps to stay in an enemy gravity well without having to retreat from a 20+ group of LRM. 

Also some good tech 7 and tech 8 military technologies to add more the the advent fleet. 

Harmony tree needs more leaves.   Hostility tree is badly in need of pruning...

Doh.

Badly punny.

Advent seem to be even more reliant on crystal.  What if their crystal and metal research were switched so the crystal came first or it was just moved to T1?  Witches love crystals, so it fits with the universe.

That'd be great in terms of balance. It doesn't really fit in with the Advent's style (quick hull repair while on the move) but balance is more important.

If Perseverance was the starting ability for Subjugater and was a fire and forget rather than channeled buff, it would go a long way toward balancing Advent in my opinion. They will still have weak armor but they wont be utterly and completely pwnable via LRM spam.

The worst thing about advent is it seems the harmony tree and hostility tree don't match-where harmony is the bottleneck. Crystal upgrades are suppose to be tier 1 (3 levels) and 3 onwards while metal 3 (2 Levels) onwards

It goes with the premise their ships need more crystal and since they can research things faster then crystal extraction rate plays a very important role. 

For starters since the illums only ever fire 1 or 2 of their banks there too expensive as a result are unable to out-perform vasari's and tecs long range.

The other problem is the carrier is too expensive for the harmony tree at tier 2 while its fighters can't stand toe to toe with vasari or tec

After playing in frustration i read up some modding and made a simple mod and increased the advent trade port income to 1.5 instead of 1 and increased the credit cost to 1125 instead of 750 and build time by %50 out of feeling guilty. The bonus to the trade chains will kick in and ill be better off because instead of building more than 1 trade port im using the other slots early on to build hostility temples to quickly access repair platforms, illums and guardians. 

Second gave the mothership a starting colonize planetary upgrade cost reduction of %25, then %35 and  then %50.

Third i reduced the crystal cost of the illuminator to 22 from 55 and also reduced the build time from 29 seconds to 20 seconds.

I have also reduced the drone hosts crystal cost from 220 to 120 and build time from 68 seconds to 48 seconds.

Fourth im trying to look for the hoshiko files, compare and turn off channeling for the Subjugator with preserverence.

(help me if anyone knows how to do it)

The artifact system is somewhat annoying. It cost too much to reduce its costs and in the case of the advent they should be more likely to find artifacts because of their insanely religious approach to economics and technology. Just saying there's no point in exploring planets and get nothing in their case. They get wiped out for wasting credits.  

Thus working on enhancing the colonize ability for the mother-ship to allow a %80 percent cost reduction for exploring planets.

(help if anyone  can do it) . Want to delete the research for artifacts from the harmony tree,

Ill re-post this at the modding section.

For now anyone know which files deal with the advent (psi) harmony tree?

Anyone have a problem with the drone host being a tier 1 unit and Purge tier 2?  I don't see how u can.  I'd love to skip the disciple spam knowing there going to die and then replace em. 2 or 3 hosts early on is a.ok  

So races stand as follows. Tier 1 :

Vasari: Assailants, repair platform

Tec: Repair Platform, etc (there ok)

Advent: Hanger and Drone host ( before was hanger and purge vessel---> u kidding me  )

I wouldn't touch drone hosts early either way.  Way too vulnerable to being rushed by light frigates.  Advent will always beeline for the second lab level anyways, since the repair platform is such a high priority for their fragile capital ships.

Yeh i noticed that. Was able to change around the hostility tree etc.. I'm still experimenting. 

Ok so i have a question: in the illuminator file it says the following for its damage per bank:

DamagePerBank:FRONT 53.500000
	DamagePerBank:BACK 0.000000
	DamagePerBank:LEFT 27.250000
	DamagePerBank:RIGHT 27.250000

How do those numbers relate to its mentioned damage output of 17 dps in the beginning?