Making all the races special

This should be soooo simple to make

all the various races...they should be different (OTHER than their various strategy bonus/penalties)

stat wise!

i right now cant remember a single race off the top of my head except i know i need to pick that race that has bonus prestige,... Gilden?...PArai..something


What you need to do is to give all the races some stats better - some stats worse.. let these stats carry over into all units - so you know when fighting a ..Trogh? you are fighting a Strong resilient unit but slow DEX

Etc!..  This would not only give each race more charm (and maybe make some poor sods like me able to remember their names)

Also now suddenly picking a champion race REaaaaaLLY matters!..

So if you pick a Throgh . because you want a Strong fighter type and not so much a wizard. You now get a initial bonus to the stats you like! - But you are hurt in others!---Wow...now i like ..ehm ..throghs.. yes thats what ill call them.

Also things that could be added (properly more advanced)

If you play a Type 1 champion/race - and you decide to pick a type 2 race/units - you get a penalty to Prestiege because well - they dont like you "racist bastards i know"



Suddenly a extra *(small) change to the game that makes the races That much more interesting!


Here are some thoughts for stats
(ok i went and looked up the races)

Altar      
---    +1str +1att -1dogde
Capitar
---    +1dex +1def -1att
Gilden
---    +2 con -magic resist
New Pariden
---    +magic resist -2str
Tarth
---    +1dex +move -1con -1str

-----

Kraksis
--- +   2 str -dogde
Magnar
---    +magic resist -2con
Resoln
---    +2def -1att -1str
Umber
---    +1str +1con -magic resist
Ythril
---    -2str -1con - drains health on attack (yes well :P just ideas :P)

Something along these lines.

I just picked these names off  a quick google search - think they are old.

with this suddenly picking a race is more than just strategy bonus


7,247 views 8 replies
Reply #1 Top

Other things that a race could have

-- Higher maintainace cost
-- Lower Maintainace cost

-- Suceptible to "element"
-- Resistance to "element"

-- Heals slowly
-- Heals Fast

-- fast tactical move
-- slow tactical move

Good with bows
good with swords
good with axes
..


i could go on

Reply #2 Top

I'm not sure a different anything will help you remember the name; you'd probably just call them 'the tank race' or 'the spam race' or something more related to their attributes anyway. :P  I do like the idea though. (although giving any race an advantage with bows will make them my go-to since the current glass cannon status of soldiers would let them destroy armies from across the map with ease. heck it's pretty much my go-to now!);P

 

On a more constructive note, could we also change what "recruit-able resources" do for specific races (or at least allegiances)? sort of like the idea of 'one man's pet is another man's main dish.'

To give an example:

in kingdoms the oasis could bring in food, where as in empires it could be prestige, but then the empires make the food up by eating horses. te kingdoms get their prestige through a different resource (like the scenic view).

For more complexity you could base it on race; while Kraxis IS an empire, they are still human, so maybe they get the prestige from the oasis, but not the food from the horses, etc. likewise, Paradin, being focused on magic and society, uses gold mines for decorating their cities, giving a prestige bonus, but losing the gildar bonus.

I believe this would help differentiate the various cultures of the races AND provide certain strategic advantages; it might mean that Mancer based races increase arcane knowledge, but the race of Men expands, while Kraxis, though small can churn out cavalry at an unmatched rate. Additionally, it would give players an incentive to go after resources for reasons other than 'i need that.' i.e.: as krax you have wargs and horses, you don't need more animals, BUT the trogs will get it, and that gives them food to get bigger so that your armies are a threat so, go grab it. Or as a Kingdom you already are dominating in diplomatic capital, but if the urxen get a hold of the scenic view their city will grow faster and allow them to annex one of your other resources.

So really that's all i've got. make the resources more variable, get creative, use wargs for circuses, eat horses, enjoy the view at the oasis and charge money for the scenic view. don't let those other races think they know how best to utilize their resources! it'll spice things up a bit.

Reply #3 Top

Suggestions:

a. Race Specific Weapons - i.e. Trogs being stronger can wield weapons that the weaker races can't. Alterians have early access to Pikes, while other races must research polearms.

b. Race Specific Spell Books - i.e. Wraiths start the game with access to the Undead Spellbook which they use to summon skeleton and zombie armies. Though other sovereigns can learn these spells, it will take a long time for them to discover the secrets of this book of magic.

c. Race Specific Technology Trees - i.e. Ironeers can forge damascus steel that gives them stronger swords. For the other races damascus steel requires requires a lot more research.

d. Race Specific Battle Tactics - i.e. Wraith led armies have the option to attack at night; that reduces the attack range of all weapons and spells to 2 titles. Mancers units have the option to form a spear wall - +4 to defense but can't move that turn.

Reply #4 Top

Age of Wonders

"Races, as well as units not belonging to any specific race, such as dragons and giants, have a certain alignment, which can be good, neutral, or evil. According to their alignment and certain other factors, cities and independent units of one race can be friendly or hostile towards another race.

This can manifest itself in different ways; for example, an orc city is not likely to surrender to the elves, and if conquered, may revolt unless there is a strong military presence in it to oppress the population.

Units of hostile races forced to fight alongside each other in a single group will have lower morale, and are more likely to desert.

Race relations can be improved by acts of goodwill towards other races, such as upgrading their cities, or hampered by razing, looting, or migrating cities belonging to that race. Diplomacy can also affect this and even an alliance with one race might affect the relation of another race. There are also several spells which have a global effect on race relations."

Reply #5 Top

I remember Derek saying somewhere that in FE they were working on racial differentiation, with the example being Trogs being able to carry more gear. 

Reply #6 Top

I hope you're right, DSRaider. Faction differentiation is really needed badly in Elemental. Personally, while the stat differences are important, the biggest thing in my opinion is the lore. What is the difference between the Trogs and the Wraiths? They both are just grayish looking humans to me. The distinction, if there is one, is moot. What's the difference between Altar and Capitar? One likes red, and the other likes purple? There are some hints in their faction descriptions, but these distinctions really don't come to life. Of prime importance, I think that each faction needs a defined theme, and that theme ought to manifest itself throughout the game. As a guy who hasn't read the novel or gone in-depth into the campaign, I would offer the following suggestions:

 

Altar: Adventurous men of the land. Altar should have a hardy, "outdoorsy" feel. (Think: Log cabins, Horses, pastures, farms and windmills.)

Capitar: Paragons of the old order. Well armored, the most "civilized" in a city/industrial sense. Above all, Capitar should give off the sense of a powerful kingdom desperate to look unaffected by the events of the Cataclysm. (Think: Stone and marble structures, ornate swords and flags with crests upon them).

Gilden: Mountain warriors, rich with gold. Gilden's theme should be Iron, Gold, Mountains, and Tunnels. (Think:Iron axes and crossbows, buildings reinforced with sturdy pillars and entrances to basements and cellars, mountain-esque fortresses decorated with gold and jewels).

Tarth: Hunters of the wildlands. Tarth's theme should be "outdoorsy" as well, but in more of a forest/jungle/swamp sense than the hills and pastures of Altar. (Think: huts built around trees, walls of uncut boulders covered in moss, vine canopies decorating Tarth's buildings).

New Pariden: The magic adepts of the humans. New Pariden's theme should be magical elegance and knowledge (think: rune decorations, flowing robes, glowing magical crystals built into New Parident's structures)

Now, just looking at the humans, how do these themes translate into the game? Stat differences become quite clear. For example, off the top of my head, mounted Altar units gain extra dexterity, Capitar swordsmen gain extra armor when garrisoned in a city, Gilden axemen gain extra attack and defense when defending from rocky or elevated positions, Tarth archers gain extra movement through swamps and forests, and New Pariden swordsmen have improved resistance to magic attacks. These themes could also translate into global differences, with different buildings giving off extra resources based on the faction theme (IE, extra mana for New Pariden arcane labs, or extra production from Gilden's Mining Guild). The AI for each faction could also be tailor-made to these specific themes, enabling each faction to act in a unique kind of way.

Plus, I think that it would be a huge help if each faction had their own unique building designs. A Tarthian workshop should look quite different from a Capitar one, even if they perform a the same function. It would dramatically help with immersion.

Anyway, that's my main thrust. I agree with you all that there should be mechanical differences between the factions, but the #1 issue, in my opinion, is immersion and lore. If you work on that, so that the kingdoms and empire truly feel different, then you'll have achieved your goal.

As a post-script, these are my suggestions for the Fallen factions, as well as Fallen races (note: the correlation between factions and races is all me. I'm not sure of the actual race to faction ties, if there is one in particular):

Kraxis: Amoral and ruthlessly pragmatic humans. Their theme should be a distortion of the Kingdom styles (think: Jagged black walls, tamed scorpions, gleaming scimitars, a fallen, twisted Capitar/ Altar mix).

Resoln: The most magically attuned of the fallen. A nation of wraiths, sorcery should be their main theme (think: ominous fog, magical runes and orbs, a fallen New Pariden. Wraiths should look more ghostly to fit this theme, and to distinguish them from the other fallen).

Umber: The Umber are of Quendar stock, power-mongers who pride themselves in their Volcanic origins. Umber's theme is Volcanic, Mountain, Lava, and Fire (Think: open fires, seething steam, stone maces, rock towers and walls lined with lava pots).

Yithril: A nation of Urxen, burly creatures who thrive in the swamp lands. Yithril's theme is Swamp and Survivalist (think: Wooden walls protected by swamp trenches, strewn logs tossed about Yithril houses, game carcasses on makeshift racks, a fallen Tarth).

Magnar: A nation formed by the Trogs, ambitious creatures who wish to build mighty monuments to the heavens. Magnar's theme is majesty (Think: Ornate pillars, monuments, statues, verandas. Crowns, tiaras, and swords encased in silver and emerald. A fallen Capitar).

Reply #7 Top

Nice summary, IronKaiser.

Adding to this, when I pay a diplomatic visit to another fraction, I want the background of the encounter to reflect the kingdom I am visiting. For tathans, show me a great hall in a tree or for umber a great hall with fire pits illuminating the hall.

I want to see quests that reveal a little bit of the lore and allow the player to ask extra questions that reveal more information. Not just yes or no but; questions that can reveal information that will prepare you for the quest. Perhaps, some questions are only available to lords of a specified intelligence level.

My lord, requests your assistance in dealing with Umber raiders. Will you help us?

  • Yes, I will help you.
  • No, I am too busy.
  • Tell me why these raiders are plaguing your lands. (Intelligence 8+)
    • They want our crops, for it is said they have a drought in their lands. (info that points to a diplomatic solution)
  • Tell me more about these raiders. (Intelligence 12+)
    • The cowardly Umbers use archers to slay our soldiers before we can engage them in honest combat. (info that will be helpful in preparing for the quest)

I want to be able to find tomes or hire champion adventurers that can tell me more about the different races if asked. Adventurers that will give me a hint as to the tactics that a fraction favors in combat. (for this game)

Reply #8 Top

Absolutely, the Diplomacy screen would be a huge opportunity to enliven the factions of the world. Things as simple as the background, flavor text, and music could be redone to dramatically change the feel of the world. What about their cities? A Capitar city should look very different from a Tarth city, and a Kraxis different from an Umber. The same principle goes into unit design, though right now, a viable army requires a rather uniform design. And AI strategies! I want Tarthians sneaking around, prefering to destroy city improvements and goading me out of my cities, while Pariden bombards me with magic attacks and debuffs, and Capitar marches heavily armored troops straight into my cities to meet my armies head to head.

I don't think War of Magic has the time to worry about these things. They're too worried about fixing the game to deal with genuinely improving it. But I really hope that Fallen Enchantress gets this right. I hope the world - the races, the factions, the rulers - truly come alive in that game.