Yarlen Yarlen

Sins of a Solar Empire: Trinity/Diplomacy v1.3 Journal - Part 2

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Sins of a Solar Empire: Trinity/Diplomacy v1.3 Journal - Part 2

The Mission System

from Sins Forums

For Part 2 of our Trinity journal series, we’re going to take a look at the changes to the game’s Mission system.

Mission ScreenOne of the most requested, and in many ways most disappointing, additions in Trinity was the ability to give Missions to other players. As a design decision, we opted to make this system very flexible; unfortunately, this open-endedness meant the AI didn’t know how to evaluate if a mission was worth doing. Given that completing missions was a key requirement to gaining higher relationship values, this made the AI’s behavior more random than intentional. If a player got lucky, the AI would happen to complete a mission through sheer chance. In multiplayer, to avoid “gaming the system,” it was impossible to offer missions in locked teams; while for unlocked sessions the rewards simply weren’t worth the effort.

Our solution has been a major update of the underlying Mission system that moves from an open-ended design to a fixed one with multiple levels. In the early game, missions will now be easier to accomplish, and as your relations with other players improve, they will scale upwards and become harder. The rewards as missions scale will also increase, with bonuses automatically applied depending on how much the players’ like each other. We’ve also tweaked the allotted time for each mission, to create a balance between actually accomplishing the objective vs. time pressure to complete it. Of course, players can opt to reject missions, though they’ll take a relationship hit for doing so.

Diplomacy ScreenThe changes give the AI information it needs to evaluate missions and to decide if it will attempt to complete them or not. If an AI player doesn’t like you or feels a mission isn’t worth its effort, it will immediately reject it in the same way a human player could. If the AI decides to accept the mission, this doesn’t automatically mean that the AI will be successful, only that it will make the attempt; they can still fail the same way a human would.

We’ve also added additional mission types including destroy capital ship, destroy planet and send envoy (which you’ll only see once a Cease Fire is in place).

In the last journal for the Trinity update, we’ll go into some details on the updated Envoys and Pacts.

136,191 views 31 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top

The difference would be the engagement would be limited to that gravity well and not universally applied, which is different from the current model which is more shoot anything in range that is not friendly.

Darvroth

Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 17
Another mission type I would like to see is Deploy Star Base.

That would be great. You could actually tell AI where to build SB. There could also be missions to upgrade SB (hull, weapons, Strike craft, Special abilities). Since I don't think that upgrading SB in gravity well of ally will be high priority of AI.

If this comes available there needs to be somewhere in code that AI builds SB where ally defenses or fleet are.

Even better it would be while settings a mission to build SB If you could set a spot where AI builds SB. Sort of same way as you can set a point for newly built ships to assemble.   

Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top

Now we just need a way to mod offerable missions, that would be some epic win, Iron/dock.

(I know, unrealistic)

Mission ideas,

Deploy Starbase

Upgrade Starbase (Would have to be linked to the deploy or to wherever there are starbases, maybe you have to select a starbase)

Deploy Mines (limit this to Vasari and Advent? Or scrap it altogether.)

Fortify (Probably better than the above ability, just designate a planet that could be fortified)

Super Weaponify (if a player has a superweapon, make it a mission that would designate a target that would need to be hit with that player's super weapon)

 

Also,

If possible, make the mission select screen more user-friendly, for example, make the select mission type button into a drop-down menu in order to improve ease of use.

Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Wrath89, reply 6
It'd be great if the AI, when giving missions, would give missions appropriate to the period of the game we're in - eg., to not send a mission of "kill civilian structures" when it first makes contact, and to instead focus on missions which are doable and tactically smart-ish, like a "kill ships" mission. That would be a big diplomatic improvement to the early game: currently, sometimes the missions the AI gives players are simply impossible or too stupid to complete at that stage in the game.

The AI will base these decisions on how much it likes you (i.e., its relationship level with you) and if there's a valid target in range (aka - there's another player that's close to you that it wants to get smacked down). Since there's still quite a bit of variable data in here we've adjusted the time limit for missions higher too.  

Quoting boshimi336, reply 10
Does this mean that the AI can create and break alliances with other AI? Right now they are always at war with each other.

This is actually a current sore spot that we're evaluating. The AI bases its alliances based on economy, with some relationship info tossed into the formula. If it thinks it can fight effectively on its own, it will tend to do that. Short of re-writing the entire system - which is far outside of scope - we're seeing what we might be able to do easily to make AI players ally up a bit more.

Quoting Darvroth, reply 12
Yarlen,

How much of these new diplomacy tweaks will be modable? In particular for the B5 mod we are looking at using the tech tree to unlock levels of diplomacy rather than having all available at the start. This is particulary necessary for the First Ones as they are overpowered early on and need controls to slow down war like behavior as a balancing mechanism. In particular that mod needs to be able to freeze diplomacy at a ceasefire level or better until the appropriate tech unlocks more diplomatic options.

Darvroth

Hmm...probably not going to see much help on that front with these changes, sorry.

Quoting DesConnor, reply 19
While I don't disagree with the inclusion of missions, there have been many problems with the design up to this version.  My basic issue with them is that the player profits from them while the AI does not.  As the player, my acts in the game, my destruction of structures or ships, will often complete some AIs mission and I will get a boost not available to the AI.  Also, as the player I can propose a truce despite the AI's failure to establish a high relationship level with me, so the player need not offer missions to the AI for diplomatic purposes.  This means that the mission system heavily favours the player.

Without going into too much detail, Treaties (like Cease Fires) and Pacts now require both players to meet the minimum indicated relationship level. The AI also now prospers (or not) based on military and diplomatic actions (which now take many more factors into account) as well.

 

Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top
Could you force another ai into lowering it relationship level with another?
Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top

All ICO - online player hate AI - it has improved but it's usually stupid.

In team game there's usually someone who drops out. I would like to take control of his AI or others in my team.

i.e on/off buttom for AI.

just an idea..