Magic revamp mod, for discussion

I'm thinking about giving a go at the magic of E:wom, as that seems to be one of the static areas in the coming patches. I would be very glad if people could read through this and give feedback, both on the mechanics and the 'fun' of such a system. There is a tl;dr at the end.


-Spells deal damage and cause effects according to the caster's intelligence, and occasionally attack rating (melee magic).
-Half of your sovereign's intelligence is also added, even if the sovereign is not present. (not possible)
-A mighty sovereign that invests in intelligence and magic need not worry that his subordinates are not intelligent enough.
-Essence is reintroduced as a per-combat limit on spells. Mighty spells require more essence drained. Sovereigns alone have an infinite amount.
-Only native channeler champions and sovereigns regenerate essence during combat, imbued champions will not. Note that essence only slowly regenerates in strategic combat (3 per turn).
-Imbue Champions provides a minimal amount of essence, the amount of essence is increased as caster/sovereign intelligence increases.
-Spells no longer have an intelligence requirement, instead spells have a desired intelligence - casting with a lower intelligence reduces damage and casting with a higher intelligence increases damage.
-All elements provide damage spells, and other spells. Some spells drain the caster's damage bonus, others negatively affect the target's resistance.

Damage is calculated from a base value of 1 = 100% core damage.
The 1 value is affected by modifiers below, that stack, so a caster in a desert will deal 1.25 = 125% damage with fire spells,
but only 0.75 = 75% when casting fire in a swamp.
A fire caster in a desert will deal 1.5 = 150% damage.

This value is then weighted against an elemental resistance value, also by default 1 = 100% damage taken.
Resistance values are inverse in power, ie 0.8 is stronger than 1 and means that the unit only takes 80% of the damage calculated from the caster.
For example, a caster may have an affinity of 1.5 = 150% damage, dealing 10*1.5 = 15 damage.
If the target has a resistance of 0.8, this value is then reduced to 80% (15*0.8 = 12).

Terrains: 25% bonuses/flaws
Desert: Increased fire damage, decreased water damage
Swamp: Increased water damage, decreased fire damage
Forests: Increased earth damage, reduced air damage
Hills: Increased air damage, reduced earth damage

Environments: 20% bonuses/flaws
Fallen boosts Death Magic
Grassland boosts Life Magic

Death/Life affinity will come from cities. Higher level cities will give higher affinity.

Units in cities gain no bonuses from terrain, but they do gain bonuses from the environment.

Buildings:
Elemental Affinity buildings give boosts in a city (one per each type max, levels with city 3-> 5-10-15%)
Shards boost the connected settlement (40% bonus), also protects against the type (20% resistance).
Shards also give a global bonus to the affinity (10%), completely replacing the old shard mechanic that adds a static amount of damage.

Champions:
Some are native spellcasters with high essence and intelligence.
Some are not spellcasters and have no essence, but may still be intelligent.
Regardless of being a spellcaster or being intelligent, some champions have native elemental affinities of different strenghts, for example being a fire caster increases the fire damage from that person by maybe 25%.
Similarly, some spellcasters have resistance against different types of damage.
Exceptionally strong and rare champions may boost certain elemental damage for every caster in the army, potentially creating a coven or school of casters.

Items:
Magic items of various types provide minor bonuses to a caster, and can provide resistances as well.
Some rare magic items also increase the essence regained per turn in tactical combat, allowing for more frequent casting.
Items may also "imbue" a champion with additional essence, turning a non-caster into a caster, and a caster into a more durable caster, however these are exceptionally rare.
Items may grant you resistance, but also take away your power in the same element, or another element. Others may grant you bonuses, but take away your resistance. Some may grant you resistances in one area and take it away from another.
The mythical 'Tear of the Gods' grants almost full immunity from spell damage, but also causes major incompetence when it comes to casting.
Rare tomes may be found that train the user in a certain element, but these bonuses are very minor.

Creatures:
Most creatures are now resistant to some types of magic.

Note: It is possible to become immune to certain spell damage, possibly even to regain health if the enemy casts a type on you. For example, zombies and ghosts are known to regain health from Death magic.


tl;dr: I want to reintroduce essence as a per-combat limit on spells. I want to spice up the mechanics of magic by providing different sorts of bonuses to magic power, and introducing specific resistances. Bonuses and resistances can be regional based on your location of the world map, or based on a champion's history, or the items he is wearing. Creatures may be natively resistant to certain types of damage.

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Reply #1 Top

I also hope to tie these into events in 1.3, for example an event might occur that boosts all fire damage but reduces all water damage. But we have to see how events are structured for that.

Reply #2 Top

I really like your ideas, and if I could add one of my own: Underpowered and overpowered spells.

The concept was originally made for a D&D-ish game, but the basis can be applied wherever there are spells, it also ties into the intelligence requirement implemented as a desired amount, instead of a mandatory one.

 In essence(not sure if this counts as a pun), when you have to little intelligence, or if you just don't want to cast it a spell at full potential, you could cast it as an Underpowered spell. That would reduce it's effectiveness, but also it's casting cost. Now, in the original concept this could turn a Flame Arrow spell, into an actual flame arrow that you could use on a bow, but I don't think that can be applied here. Although, if it could, a fireball would more or less turn into a land mine, an icebolt into a pointy melee weapon, and so on. The idea was that even though the spell would be less useful than it's normal version, it would different enough to make it practical, or at least interesting.

 

Then there are the Overpowered spells. This came out of the idea that a high level wizard could turn Magic Missile into a glowing ball of death, by pumping extra power in it. So at the cost of more mana, or going by your example, more essence consumption(it being what determines the spell/combat limit), and with a higher intelligence requirement, the spells could have increased statistics. Sort of like you could do in Master of Magic when casting some spells in combat. Now, if the same enhanced effects could be applied, then like an underpowered spell, an overpowered one will have different results than a normal one. Fire Arrow becomes Fire Arrow Storm, Fire Ball becomes a Firestorm, Lightning becomes chain lightning, and so forth.

I wouldn't know where to begin to even try to implement something like this in WoM. Just being able to pump more/less power into spells to get a smaller/bigger bang would be enough though.

Reply #3 Top

Unfortunately, that's the sort of thing that is beyond the reach of modding at the moment. The option is to present the user with several copies of the same spell, but that would clutter the UI and it wouldn't make sense to have to research each "power" of the spell separately.

Reply #4 Top

I figured it would be a bit too much, but I can still dream about it. Theoretically though, when you select a spell for casting, can the action be intercepted and directed to a panel where you could select the variation of the spell? Or maybe not even that, just adding the extra spells with the clear type specified would also work, like copies as you mentioned. Although it wouldn't be as immersive. There has to be a way to make it seem like they aren't different spells, but variations of one root, without too much work being involved.

When I'll be done with school at the end of July, I'll finally have the time to look into modding properly. Maybe I can put something together, last time I tried, on the old PC, the editor kept crashing on me. I hope I have better luck this time.

Reply #5 Top

There's no such scripting at even remotely deep enough level in the code to do something like that. And there won't be for FE either, unfortunately.

Reply #6 Top

Absolutely.

I was never able to figure out how to do some of this, myself. One question, though... what's the point of giving sovereigns essence regeneration if they have an infinite amount?

Reply #7 Top

because you can never have too much of a good thing?

 

Great ideas heavenfall

 

Maybe you could make a hero talent that represents over and underpowered. or even an item. Equip this item and your spells cost 10% more and do 10% more damage.

Reply #8 Top

The problem with that is that I can't dynamically change the mana cost. Also, the AI wouldn't be able to use it effectively.

Edit: I'll experiment some, it may be possible.

Reply #9 Top

I'm also thinking about adding a mechanic where the 4 elemental spell books are unlocked when you control a shard of the right colour. That means you can't research, or cast, spells of these elements until you've controlled that shard (with a building) at least once. Champions (rare/high-level) would maybe also grant access to a certain spellbook.

Some spells will also be unusable without currently controlling a certain shard. Some spells require more than one type of shard. Some spells are boosted by more than one type of shard. These multiple-type spells will be available from the death/life book. Example: tactical spell that SETS (not increases) the resistance of your entire army to 35% for 1 turn (_every resistance_). Each controlled shard of a type adds another 3%. Intelligence rating is ~25, each 5 deviance +- 3%.

Similarly, some champions might function as a shard (GLOBAL 10% bonus to a spell type damage).

Edit: Shards will absolutely be buildable without research (but some high cost is needed... not sure what... prestige?), however upgrades will be researchable (more mana, more bonuses to particular city).

Reply #10 Top

I'm going to bug you with another question now. Is it possible to assign several effects to a spell that take place alternatively or at the same time depending a dice roll/percentage. Sort of like Chaos Channels had in Master of Magic. Like, or a spell that deals a variable damage to the enemy, and that also has the chance to backfire.

Reply #11 Top

Nope, no random chances, not possible to deliver one effect to target and one to caster.

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Reply #12 Top

Rats, well that shoots holes in an idea I had. Thanks for the info.

Reply #13 Top

I thought it would be cool if shards weren't the only 'source' of spells, so I tried playing around a bit with the spellbook mechanics and - success!

Shards will grant you access to research all the spells of an element, but champions (and lost spellbooks in goodiehuts!) can also teach you specific spells instantly. And even better, I managed to do it in such a way that it is perfectly handled by the UI (you will only see one spell, instead of two different spells that are the same).

Note that this means that champions can teach you spells for shards that you don't control.

Reply #14 Top

http://i.imgur.com/PyOrl.jpg this is how I imagine a magic item, in this case granting resistance. Note how the new unitstats aren't present to the left - nor are they when you open the hiergamemon on a character. The user will have to keep track of bonuses and resistances himself. The champions will have their native bonuses listed in their history.

It's strictly speaking not how I wanted it, but the UI doesn't support showing more unitstats so there it is. The silver lining is that the player will become more involved in the magic process, which is sort of the point of this mod.

Reply #15 Top

'Ard, wearing the Cloak of No Particular Colour: http://i.imgur.com/ELwKR.jpg 

I have hidden some of the more useless stats like sight, ranged dodge and the old magic resistance. That leaves room for all the new stats! Also switched from 1 to 100 as basevalue, as the game UI wasn't displaying decimals (should have thought of that earlier heh).

Reply #16 Top

About adding half of your sovereign's intelligence to the champions - could you not make this part of the effect of the 'Imbue Champion' spell (so in addition to enabling spell casting it increases the champion's intelligence by 1/2 of the sovereign's (or maybe the caster's, although I think Imbue Champion is limited to the sovereign) intelligence at casting time)?  This probably won't give exactly the effect you wanted, though, and it would only work on the champions imbued by the sovereign (or some other spell caster).  Also, I don't think that the bonus conferred by doing this would update each time that the sovereign's intelligence increased.  Instead, I believe that the intelligence bonus would be set at the time of casting.

An alternative might be to make a spell that affects all of your champions on the map, which only the sovereign can cast (and only once per turn) that increases champion intelligence by 1/2 of the sovereign's intelligence for the turn (or for some set number of turns).

Note that I do not know whether or not this is possible - I know that items can be set to give attribute bonuses, which makes me believe that spells can, but I am not sure.  Also, I have not modded Elemental, so whether or not any of the ideas I gave will work I cannot say, nor could I give much real assistance in working out any issues that might come up in attempting to implement the ideas I gave above.

Reply #17 Top

Giving it from imbue champions is actually a neat idea, but not all champions need to be imbued, and as you said it wouldn't update when the sovereign's intelligence updates. Most importantly, the AI wouldn't know how to use it properly.

I don't want to end up in a scenario where the player has to spam strategic spells, because it's annoying and the AI won't manage it.

Reply #18 Top

I was hoping I'd be able to put essence back in the UI, but I haven't had any luck. I'm not sure using essence as a per-combat-limit is a good idea, if I can't show the user how much essence he has available. How do you guys feel about essence as a hidden per-combat-limit?

Edit: It seems I can't display essence costs in the spellbook UI, so essence too must be cut. #:(

Reply #19 Top

New equip-UI: http://i.imgur.com/VeMQl.jpg with extra space for unit stats, and more room to display an item's properties and text. Less room to list all the items the hero carries, but still enough and with the scrollbars it really doesn't matter.

Unfortunately, the hiergamemon text display contains a lot of text that is dynamically generated, so modding that is impossible. Users can use the equip screen to check statistics of heroes. With the added bonus that you can't see it in combat, nor can you see the enemies' stats.

Reply #20 Top

Is it possible to make an item that provides a stat bonus dependent on the current attributes of the sovereign? Or do items require you to have constants for the attribute bonus? If it is possible to have items that grant a bonus based on the current turn attributes of the sovereign, then you could have a small item (for instance, a ring - especially since there seems to be no end to the number of them that you can equip, which means you aren't necessarily trading anything to get it) that you can give to a champion (preferably by means of a spell, like the weapon-granting spells in Murteas Grimoire, since it would probably be a bad thing to have a champion decked out with fifty 'Ring of Mind-Meld' items, each boosting the champion's intelligence by half of the sovereign's intelligence).  I suspect, though, that since spell bonuses are set on the casting turn, item bonuses cannot be made to be a variable dependent on something that changes in-game.

Reply #21 Top

Tactical combat is actually a whole different beast than strategic mode, in fact the "global" sovereign values are not even read into memory. Even when the sovereign is present.

edit: some flavour text for artifact level items

11. Illfate: One of the few magic swords in the world that noone in their right mind wishes to possess. Its wielders, without fail, end up living excruciatingly tragic lives. The fate of each wielder is recounted in the book "One hundred paths to doom", written by Kal. Only a dozen copies of the book remain, and each time the life of a wielder ends, the story will magically appear in the end of each of the books. Kal crafted the sword himself, and thus his story is the first in the books. Ironically, the 94th story is of a man who read the book looking for his own fate, and killed himself as the tragedy of all the stories overwhelmed him.

12. Blink: Engraved with various demon faces, anyone who looks at the sword will see nothing odd - until he looks away. The sword's figures will appear to blink to anyone who breaks eye-contact with the various demons engraved in the sword. The experience is highly unsettling, but produces no negative effects. When wielded in crowds, the user will constantly end up in discussions with people who think they saw something and just want to look at the sword "one more time". Origins unknown.

13. Godsent: A thousand men saw the sword appear out of thin air at the siege of the last fortress of an old kingdom. The sword miracously helped break the siege, and the kingdom was saved for a time. The sword disappeared after the battle, but has reappeared through history whenever forces of good gather against darkness. Although the sword guarantees no victory, and indeed has been present at more defeats than victories, there is a great amount of faith in the sword by the common people. The sword is seen as a blessing and a sign of approval from the next world.

14. Certainty: The sword is engraved with what appears to be a slowly changing map, at first glance. It was created by the wanderer Bolr from before the Cataclysm, to aid him in finding ways around the world, and to keep him safe from danger. However, rather than display a map of the area, it displays choices the wearer must make and paths that he will follow as a result. Local legend has it that Bolr discarded the sword at the time of his death, saying that the sword had shown him nothing but "roads without end" throughout his life. His dying words were that he "must now go where Certainty cannot guide me".

Reply #22 Top

List of spells. Inspiration from LightofAbraxas' ExpandedMagic mod. Generally speaking, affinity and bonuses make spells stronger in their power, but range and duration is always static. Not every spell can be boosted. As said before, each spell will also have an intelligence level. If the caster is above this level, the spell is stronger. If he is below, the spell will be weaker.

Each faction will have free access to Death (empire) or Life (kingdom) magic. In addition, as I said above, each shard will grant access to one book, and the shard buildings can be built immediately. Spells marked "0" do not need research. S is for strategic, T is for tactical.

 


General outlines for spells
- Must be dead-easy for AI to use - if the AI cannot use it in a SMART way, remove the spell. Examples: Blink, Raise Mountain, Desecrate Land
- No upkeep for any spell in strategic mode, including imbue champion (Ai wastes all its mana on upkeep)
- Intent is to provide spells that scale with casters/shards
- No random-chance resistance or immunity to spells. Resistance provides a partial protection OR weakness.
- Intent is to make spells upset the balance of the game

Spell list
There are limits preventing users from buffing themselves many times over with the same buffs, and debuffing the enemy with the same spells again and again
Also units that lose a turn from a 100% effect like Prison of Ice cannot lose another turn from a 100% spell in the same combat, even if it's from another spell

Fire (base damage is 75%, 25% is dot applied next turn) (Summons deal 100% magic damage)
0T-Burning Blade (melee strike with added fire damage)
1S-Summon Fire Nymph
2T-Flame breath (knockback, tile is impassable firestorm for 1 turn)
3T-Fireball (ranged missile)
3T-Firestorm (3x3 square damage)
4T-Protection from Fire (buffs all your units' fire resistance)
4T-Blessing of Fire - all friendly units move 10% of their defense to attack. Affinity increases the gain, not the loss.
4S-Draught (reduces food production in target city by 50% for 10 turns, units take 10% longer to train and finish with 10% weakness to fire magic)
4S-Summon Fire Giant
5S-Volcano (most destructive strategic attack)

Water (base damage is 100%) (Summons deal 25% normal attack, and 75% magic)
0S-Summon Water Nymph
1T-Ice Shard (ranged missile)
2T-Acid Rain (3x3 square, minor damage and reduces armor by %)
2T-Icy Touch (melee strike with water damage, enemy loses 25% combatspeed)
3T-Blizzard (largest AOE, hits every enemy unit)
3T-Protection from Water (buffs all your units' water resistance)
4T-Prison of Ice (target unit 100% chance to lose next turn, cannot lose turn again in this fight)
4T-Blessing of Water - Half of all friendly units' dodge is moved to accuracy. Affinity increases the gain, not the loss.
4S-Summon Water Giant
4S-Poisonous Water (target city suffers -10 prestige for 10 turns, trained units have 10% less hitpoints and 10% weakness to water magic)
5S-Sink Land (3x3 square gone)
5T-Wintersmith (All enemy units 10% chance to lose next turn)

Air (base damage is 85-115%) (Summons deal 100% magic damage)
0T-Whirling Weapon (melee strike with 1 extra range with added air damage)
1T-Lightning (strong missile hitting random target, target loses next turn, cannot lose turn again in this fight)
2S-Summon Air Nymph
2T-Protection from Air (buffs all your units' air resistance)
3T-The name of Wind - caster is transported to random tile
3T-Chain Lightning (3x3 square, damage is partially increased by target armor)
3S-Endless Whirlwinds (target city loses 10% arcane and tech research. Trained units have 10% weakness to air)
4T-Blessing of Air - 25% of all friendly units' accuracy is moved to dodge. Affinity increases the gain, not the loss.
4T-Chaotic winds - 3x3 square enemy units are moved 1 tile
5S-Summon Air Giant
5T-Intense Pressure - All enemy units lose dodge
5T-Choke - Target takes damage for every turn until combat ends

Earth (base damage is 95-105%) (Summons deal 50% normal attack, and 50% magic)
0T-Rain of stones (low 3x3-square damage, groups suffer higher damage)
1S-Summon Stoneling
2T-Gravity Anomaly - target suffers damage, target armor increases damage
2T-Embrace of the Earth-Attack deals damage, forces unit to leave tile
3T-Protection from Earth (buffs all your units' earth resistance)
3S-Summon Lavaling
4T-Grip of Stone-A single unit will need to expend 1 extra AP to move for 1 turns
4T-Blessing of Earth - all friendly units move 10% of their attack to defense. Affinity increases the gain, not the loss.
4S-Disruptive earthquakes - target city has material and metal production reduced by 15% for 10 turns. Buildings take 20% longer to build. Units trained have 10% weakness to Earth magic.
5S-Summon Stone Giant
5S-Shatter World - 3x3 square that turns target area into rocky crags.

Death (base damage is 80%, 20% additional damage is drain-life damage) (summons, except 5S-Death deal 80% magic damage, 20% drain life damage)
0T-Hemmorhage - unit suffers damage, and minor damage over time for rest of combat
1T-Rain of Nails - Deals physical damage, armor is very effective against this
2S-Summon minor demon
3T-Protection from Death (buffs all your units' Death resistance)
3T-Plague - all enemies suffer 2 damage per turn until combat ends
4S-Corruption- target city has gildar income reduced by 25%, also upkeep for all buildings is increased by 10%. Units trained have 10% weakness to Death magic.
4T-Blessing of Death - all friendly units gain 10% chance to deal double damage, but their counter-attacks deal 40% less damage.
4T-Call of the Banshee - all enemies lose accuracy
4S-Summon Demon
5T-Death's Embrace - Attack that deals increased damage the more the target is already wounded. This spell is potentially the most damaging in the game.
5S-Summon Death (supremely strong summoned unit, possibly limited duration)

Life (base damage is 95-105%) (Summons deal 100% magic damage, "joie the vivre" = low chance for target to lose next turn as they are overcome with extasy)
0T-Gripping Vines- Target suffers damage, loses 35% counter-attack damage for rest of turn
1S-Forest Nymph - A trickster joins
1S-Wanderer's Luck- Selfcast. Anyone in the caster's army will regain 2 health outside cities per turn for 10 turns. Also cause 20% more damage against monsters.
2T-Heal - Single-target heal
3T-Ancient Forest- 3x3 square. Trees appear out of nowhere, dealing damage and causing all enemies to require 1 extra AP to move next turn. Check _stamps_, otherwise just tile.
3T-Protection from Life (buffs all your units' Life resistance)
4T-Blessing of Life - All friendly units re-gain 15% health over 3 turns. Units cannot gain buff again for rest of combat.
4S-Summon Dawn Dragon
4S- Flow of Life - Target city does not regenerate any health for any unit inside the city for 10 turns. Units trained have 10% weakness to Life magic.
5T-Burst of life - all units on map instantly re-gain 20% of their health
5S-Nature's Revenge- 3x3 turns into swamp. If possible, units will not die, only buildings.

Un-used mechanics:
Deal damage, target regains half over 2 turns
Deal damage, armor reduced by % for rest of combat
Deal damage, damage reduced by % for rest of combat
Death Ward
Call to Arms
Guardians (unmovable defenders)
Buffs on own cities9

 Next up is changing the spellbook UI so I can put more information in there.

Reply #23 Top

I can't mod environments to give bonuses, only terrain (environment is what spreads colour around your city, terrain is what defines a tile ie mountain or ocean). I'm thinking of giving cities death and life affinity based on their faction (empire=death, kingdom=life).

Edit: yeah... I like that. Higher level cities will increase the affinity as well.

Edit2: Also, I've done a quick overview of balance and I'm aiming for around +200% power to spells max (ie, a spell that does 10 base damage can deal 30 in a perfect scenario).

sources for affinity:
Intelligence +75%
Character affinity +25%
Shard affinity 30%
Area affinity 25%
Item affinity 50%

Resistance sources
buff spells 30%
artifacts 60% (10% each)
character 20% / race 20%

 

Reply #24 Top

Had to do some work on armor models. As I've commented on before, the difference between fallen and man-sized models causes a whole range of issues with armor. Well, when it comes to artifact armor, you really want every item you find to be wearable by everyone. Not have an item that only works for say a Trog.

I've also mentioned before the possible benefits of xml tweaks to existing models. It's a method with the benefit of me not actually needing the original ("pre-compilation") model to modify a model that exists in-game.

For example, when it comes to chest armor fitting both human-sized and fallen-sized units, I wanted to make breastplates about 10% thicker in "depth", without making the other dimensions misfit.

Before vs after.

Reply #25 Top

I already placed a lot of affinity code in my spell mods.  If you want to check em out you know where to find em.  Feel free to use what you like.  Some of my spell code also takes into account relative stats of caster and target to increase / decrease the power of spells.  Also, you certainly could implement the overpowered / underpowered idea, it would just have to be a passive deal.  Easy enough tho.  Anyway, good luck!

Edit: Oh, and you can have variable mana costs, but only on strategic spells.  It won't work with MPT costs.

Edit2: I also may have more tweaked XML code on my comp that I haven't uploaded.  If you want me to upload it PM me as I'm not around much anymore. I'd be happy to do it.