Did you check the sources?

You did quote somebody's views as facts. Wikipedia doesn't say that Israeli settlements constitute a breach of the Geneva Convention, Wikipedia quoted somebody else saying that.

Of course, it has never before been a violation of the Geneva Convention when people moved into occupied territory. It happened when the US occupied and annexed Hawaii (it is still happening), it happened when North-Vietnam annexed South-Vietnam, when Poland and Russia occupied parts of Germany and when Jordan annexed the West-Bank.

I generally don't accept as valid "international law" that only applies to Israel.

You will not be surprised to learn that the settlements are illegal according to Palestinian Authority law. Turns out selling land to Jews is illegal there and the death penalty waits for the seller.

What is illegal per the Geneva Convention is the forceful moving of population from one area into another, but the Jews in the West-Bank were not forced by Israel to move there.

 

You do have a knack for finding antisemitic lies and thinking that they are facts. I'll give you that.

It's not difficult to find antisemitic materials via Google. What is difficult is to think for oneself.

I gave you a few hints. Why didn't the map show public lands? Why did they choose 1946? I want you to THINK, not look for images and funny videos. Thinking is the important part, not the ability to repeat what others say.

And as for the subject of this discussion: it's very easy to create contiguous states unless one insists that territories on two sides of one state must be the same state for no other reason than that the British once drew a line on a map.

 

I wonder if there is a single violation of "international law" Israel has committed that was not based on a decision by Israel's opponents at the UN after the fact.

The UN didn't consider people moving into occupied territory a crime before Israel did it, despite the fact that many, many countries did it (and are still doing it). The UN also didn't consider it a crime when Vietnam did it. Only when Israel does it is it a crime. Odd, that. Must be pure coincidence.

The UN didn't consider annexation of land in a defensive war illegal until Israel did it and only in Israel's case. (In the case of North-Vietnam they didn't even consider it illegal in an aggressive war.)

What kind of law is this that doesn't apply to everyone and changes whenever Israel does something?

 

Show me your sources, links, pictures or books I can find at the library. I don't just babel mindless facts without showing where I got the information except for that map for which I have apologized and twice I asked YOU TO SUPPLY a better one. Comics don't count.

... Seems like proving what one says ... also falls under the category of ...  those difficult things to do.

 

 

 

... I see what you mean ...

Chomsky and Dershowitz debate Israel and Palestine 90 min 14 part playlist

Comics?

Anyway, what do you want sources for? The Jewish National Fund has a Web site. I don't think anybody has ever made a map that correctly shows Jewish-owned land in British Palestine. There is no Zionist propaganda that requires such a map. The JNF sometimes publish maps, usually on blue boxes (collection boxes). You can find pictures of those on the Internet. The box I have is from this year and likely show JNF land ownership as of this year.

My point was simply that a map of land ownership that doesn't show publicly owned land cannot be correct. I don't think I have a source for that claim. I thought it was obvious. There is a park behind my house in Dublin that is owned by neither Jew nor Arab nor Irishman nor Englishman. Public land worked the same in the Ottoman Empire and British territories.

 

Yes. That's why I didn't make any claim about how much land in British Palestine was owned by Jews. I know the map "myfist" showed was fake because it didn't show any publicly owned land and showed Jerusalem as not owned by Jews. As I said it was also suspicious that the map claimed "Palestinian" ownership of land in 1946 (when "Palestinian" meant anyone living in British Palestine) and between 1949 and 1967 when no Palestine existed at all and no land was under Palestinian control at all.

I don't think the UN will ever verify land ownership in the former Ottoman Empire because the Arab states would never allow a survey to be carried out that would both remind the world how much land was taken from Jews in Egypt, Iraq, in transjordan Palestine and the West-Bank, or how much land was owned by Jews at the coast and in Jerusalem in Ottoman times and during the mandate period. It wouldn't fit their narrative. It is a lot easier to keep the land and accuse the Jews of the "war crime" of buying land from Arabs and building houses on it.

As far as I know the British recognised Ottoman land titles, except in Transjordan where they allowed the newly instated king to expropriate and expel Jews. But finding a source for that would be difficult.

 

That map shows sovereignty according to the 1994 peace treaty. It hasn't changed since 2004.

Incidentally, the majority of Arabs (or "Palestinians") in Jerusalem consistently poll to want to continue to live under Israeli sovereignty. A majority of them even say they would move if Jerusalem was annexed by an Arab state to remain residents of Israel.

"Subjecting the Palestinians to such governing body [the Palestinian Authority] has proved to be against their own interests to the point where a recent survey of Palestinians in Jerusalem showed that 70% of them would rather remain under Israeli rule."

http://www.hudson-ny.org/2148/obama-peace-vision-israel-suicide

Disclosure: The author, Mudar Zahran, is a friend of mine and a Palestinian from Amman, Transjordan.

I doubt that Dumbo Ears even knows what the word "contiguous" means. It was just a word in the speech he was parroting. I am betting he couldn't find Israel on a globe without someone pointing it out to him. Hell, the moron doesn't even know what year it is.

And Mr. DoLittle is going to force his wishes ... how ... "Further, Obama unwittingly admits that his proposal will fail even before it starts" ..."Nonetheless, the development of such a twisted vision should give the pro-Israel lobby in the US a reason to consider the fact that the peace process itself is about to become officially dead". Pretty cut and dry for me, but Obama isn’t going to be doing much … without a lot of help from ‘his friends’. Obama is busted in every way …

Right to the meat of the matter, well done, hehehe .

Leauki posts:

Funny question. That's what the continual wars in/over that region are all about. What everybody wants is land and water.

The Arabs owned the land called "Palestine" when it was controlled by the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

In your question "anybody" were the 24,000 European Jews who wanted the land and began to settle there in the mid to late 1800s. By 1914 the number of Jews who wanted the land grew to about 85,000 Jews out of a total population of about 700,000. Who cared? The British did becasue they were fearful of the hostility of the large Palestinian population and tried to promote limits on Jewish immigration which lasted through WWII.

The Jews opposing this policy kept coming and after the Nazis killed 6 million Jews, the demands for a Jewish state increased. The problem was too much for Britain which submitted it to the United Nations.

The clashes for land and water have continued ever since. Obama was just the latest one to bring it up. He seemingly cares what the Palestinians want.

 

 

 

MasonM posts:

Obama may not be able to find Isreal on the globe without help, but he sures knows where to go for Jewish money as he won the Jewish vote, one of the most reliable Democrat voting blocs. 

After this, I wonder if the Jewish bloc will back him with their money and votes.  Time will tell.

 

http://www.onejerusalem.org/2011/05/jerusalem-palestinians-want-to

Is this the source? Just 1 paragraph with no official polling reference?

I also found this?  Washington Post

The awkward fact is that the 270,000 Arabs who live in East Jerusalem may not be very enthusiastic about joining Palestine. The survey, which was designed and supervised by former State Department Middle East researcher David Pollock, found that only 30 percent said they would prefer to be citizens of Palestine in a two-state solution, while 35 percent said they would choose Israeli citizenship. (The rest said they didn't know or refused to answer.) Forty percent said they would consider moving to another neighborhood in order to become a citizen of Israel rather than Palestine, and 54 percent said that if their neighborhood were assigned to Israel, they would not move to Palestine. Washington Post 01/12/2011

Ok I though I would check just 1 of your facts and low and behold its BS. Sorry like I stated before on a few of these threads "I don't care how many swallow BS, if it looks like BS and smells BS, guess what, ITS SHIT. Now its seems you like to double the number from poll done by (ROFL) an idiotic American State Dept lacky. This same idiot polled the Arab states and told us that we would be welcomed in Iraq for getting rid of Saddam. Are you really serious presenting this jerk-off for evidence. Let's see, the State Dpt supports Israel and a poll put out by the State Dpt is so called ice-cream when it is clearly vanilla flavored SHIT. Your giving me a truth ache.

Sources that are NOT Comics. Look up comics if you don't understand.

 

JNF PROJECTS http://www.jnf.ca/projects1-nav.html

The history of the Jewish National Fund of Canada and the State of Israel are inseparable. Jewish National Fund of Canada land reclamation projects have created the infrastructure for countless residential areas and other communities across Israel. In addition, the Jewish National Fund of Canada has provided resources to construct new roads, develop recreation and tourist sites, and help increase the country's meager water resources. Jewish National Fund of Canada education programs help foster a better understanding of Zionism, while innovative research projects help a dynamic population create the quality of life necessary for a better tomorrow. 

Funds raised by Jewish National Fund of Canada are primarily directed to the payment of wages to workers engaged in various aspects of Jewish National Fund activities.

 

Jewish National Fund of Canada land reclamation projects have created the infrastructure for countless residential areas and other communities across Israel.

Awww, what a sweet way of saying your building on occupied land. 

 

And you are seeking answers ...

If anyone actually looked at any of the information supplied like...

Chomsky and Dershowitz debate Israel and Palestine 90 min 14 part playlist

You would see quite a heated argument over  "contiguous" . I think that it is the majority of North Americans that don't know what it means.

 EDIT: I like that Chomsky (who is Jewish BTW) recently tried to enter Israel to give a lecture at a University and was not allowed to enter the country at the boarder.

 Part 2

edit 2

I change the video to this 2 part interview which basically states my views very well.

United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict

or the Goldstone Report

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/12session/A-HRC-12-48_ADVANCE1.pdf

 

Geeze ... I am still reviewing the first one ... a woman’s chores are never done.

Myfist0, First tidbit was "Civility is the corner stone of democracy” ... on JU? I have a lot of work to do … what books would you recommend from Noam Chomsky? Seems like politics on the right and reason on the left ... contiguous, did anyone ask the teleprompter?

No idea where this moronic statement comes from. I am from North America, was quoted, and know quite well what the word means. The rest of the post using a quote from my post makes no point at all in the context of what I originally posted. Seems almost like someone trying to beat a dead horse and just looking for an excuse to do so.

I knew Dershowitz was sunk when he got into racism, go figure. The difference between a politician and a statesman ... nope ... this idiot pulled out the race card again ... creative solutions, what gives? I think there must be better jobs than a political refaree between a politician and someone with actual knowledge at his call. ... President Clinton told him ... blaa ..blaa.

OMG, he brought up 'conspiracy theories', how quaint.

You must ... you quoted it??? I think there are a few more Americans included here though ... (congratulations on being one who does seem to understand). I think you are overriding this as I didn't see this as an article about you or your views ... just contagious is all. And there is still plenty of debate…

 

@ BT: YA Chomsky had Dershowitz by the short and curlies 

Is excellent          workin' on this, it's a lot to absorb.

That's the only 2 that I picked though. He has many that might interest you more.

 

@ Mason: I understand your confusion about the post and will either state new subject or start another post. It was not meant to be contiguous. 

Speaking of BS, if I'm not mistaken, Goldstone has repudiated his own report.

Really? I did not know that  . I will see what I can find. Thanks for the heads up. 

Ya, He wrote an article here on the Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/reconsidering-the-goldstone-report-on-israel-and-war-crimes/2011/04/01/AFg111JC_story.html

But they couldn't get to all of them ...       yet.      vs    lol

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/world/middleeast/15goldstone.html?_r=1&src=me

JERUSALEM — Three members of the United Nations panel that investigated Israel’s Gaza war two years ago rejected on Thursday an essay written by the fourth, the former chairman Richard Goldstone, in which he retracted the panel’s key conclusions, especially that Israel had deliberately made civilians targets.

 

Let the conspiracy theories roll 

Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Status of specific incidents referred to in the Goldstone Report: Nov 2009

The Goldstone Report states that it examined 36 incidents, however it is hard to determine precisely how this number is arrived at in relation to the events described.  Nonetheless, all the incidents cited in the Report have been or are being examined (12 incidents had not been reported to Israel prior to publication of the Report, and upon hearing of them, investigations were initiated by the IDF). According to Israel's best understanding of the breakdown of incidents in the Report, the current status of these incidents is as follows:

• 5 incidents were addressed in the framework of the General Staff Command investigations and are currently being examined by the Military Attorney General (para. 2 above).
• 5 incidents were examined and found not to present any basis for suspecting that laws had been violated (para. 3 above).
• 16 incidents are currently under process of examination (para. 4 above).
• 10 are the subject of criminal investigations (para.5 above). 

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Law/Legal+Issues+and+Rulings/Examination_allegations_by_IDF_Oct_2009.htm

 

 

GAZA OPERATION INVESTIGATIONS: AN UPDATE: Jan 2010

From January 2002 through December 2008, there were 1,467 criminal investigations into
alleged misconduct by IDF soldiers, leading to 140 indictments against soldiers for
alleged crimes committed against the Palestinian population. Of these indictments, as of
December 2008, 103 defendants were convicted and ten cases are still pending. During
2009, 236 criminal investigations were opened, and 14 indictments were filed against
officers and soldiers.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/8E841A98-1755-413D-A1D2-8B30F64022BE/0/GazaOperationInvestigationsUpdate.pdf

IDF Military Advocate General Implements New Investigation Policy in West Bank

http://idfspokesperson.com/2011/04/06/idf-military-advocate-general-implements-new-investigation-policy-in-west-bank/

ALMOST 10 YEARS and all I can find is a conviction for using a 9 year old boy to open suspicious bags. No time, just probation. 
Where are these convictions reported and for what were they convicted?

Seems like there could be stuff like this used ... naw ... just hearsay, go figure. A picture used to be worth a thousand words, but now a thousand pictures are negated by a single word instead.

Off topic and tangents are always allowed on my articles.  I may not comment on them, but one never knows where the Muse will take you,

Depends upon who is in charge.  I doubt Rather's piece was in support of the government - but it sure was edited!