Did You Enjoy Your Trip To China?

from JoeUser Forums

 

Well, a weird thing happened the other day (and not for the first time).

Turns out if you visited/commented on Facebook, you (and 10% of web traffic) took a trip to China, South Korea and back. Yep: Route-Jacking.

Facebook traffic for AT&T customers was routed through Chinese and Korean servers for some unspecified amount of time, raising privacy concerns.

Some of the network traffic heading to Facebook’s servers in Palo Alto, Calif., was re-routed to first pass through Chinese and Korean servers, on March 22. and was thought probably an accident.

“A similar incident surfaced almost exactly a year ago on April 8, 2010, when a Chinese ISP incorrectly published a set of BGP (Border Gateway Protocol) instructions that could have potentially affected 37,000 networks. The incident lasted only 18 minutes, and China Telecom, the country’s largest ISP, denied trying to hijack Internet traffic. Experts speculated it was an accident because of how quickly it was fixed.”

If you’ll remember, I discussed BGP’s and how the net could be brought down by simply increasing the length of time in reporting ‘backups’ or ‘busy’ signals causing a massive net clog up.

I think you should take a look at the article. For me, I’d really like to know that when I’m communicating from inside the US, with a site inside the US, my info-packets won’t be “inspectable” by a country whose policies I eschew and be (perhaps) put on a list for questioning should I ever decide to visit there as a tourist. I also want none of my personal information in their hands.

Source article: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Facebook-Traffic-Diverted-to-China-Raising-Privacy-Concerns-130825/

89,542 views 50 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

And i thought 1984 was scary....

Reply #2 from WinCustomize Forums Top

All the more reason to just stay off of all of these types of sites.  :-"

Object Desktop - Get all of our enhancement utilities in one suite
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

The fact that we've all heard about it so quickly makes me think it's probably an innocent glitch. The life expectancy of a coverup is usually a few years.

But yeah, the fact that this can be done is a bit of a security issue. If American Facebook data can get bounced literally halfway around the planet with a setup like this, then I could very easily see personal data and sensitive communications getting deliberately redirected through some system owned by a criminal organization, greedy government, or unscrupulous corporation.

Reply #4 from WinCustomize Forums Top
my rig doesn't know how to do facebook or any other social network crap. she's a good girl :)
Reply #5 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Innocent or not, Facebook, Twitter and all those other so called "social networking" sites should be avoided at all costs.  Too many of these type incidents have been occurring of late and personally I find them of no use at all.  I would rather talk to a person face-to-face, or on the telephone, or via a safe chat program than use those type services.

Reply #6 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting LightStar, reply 5
Innocent or not, Facebook, Twitter and all those other so called "social networking" sites should be avoided at all costs.  Too many of these type incidents have been occurring of late and personally I find them of no use at all.  I would rather talk to a person face-to-face, or on the telephone, or via a safe chat program than use those type services.
End of LightStar's quote

A man after my own heart. Yes, Tom (and everyone)... it's slowly (but surely) a realization I'm coming to as well.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Well, there's another good reason I blacklisted anything facebook related on Opera. That and the fact that for some reason anything related to it, even the slightest, took ages to load. And that's weird, I usually have a good connection with the US, the only area where them bits start crawling trough the mud is certain parts of Asia... wait... Oh My God! That explains everything. Well, maybe not, but still, it's an interesting tidbit to know.

Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Quoting LightStar, reply 5
Innocent or not, Facebook, Twitter and all those other so called "social networking" sites should be avoided at all costs. Too many of these type incidents have been occurring of late and personally I find them of no use at all. I would rather talk to a person face-to-face, or on the telephone, or via a safe chat program than use those type services.
End of LightStar's quote
Yeah, I've always kept well away from facebook, both because I'm just generally a private person who doesn't like my life on the web for all to see, but also because they seem to have a lot of "accidents" like this.

Reply #9 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Some software to trace your path:

http://internet.software.informer.com/download-internet-explorer-graphical-trace-route/

http://www.infopackets.com/news/internet/2002/20020917_using_trace_route_and_ping_to_trace_pathways_on_the_internet.htm

http://route-tracing.softplatz.net/

Just an FYI from the doc.

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Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

This is more or less just how I feel about the internet in the US. Absolutely one of the reasons I won't ever visit. In before US citizens flip-flop around the issue, claiming one government recording all I do is good and another doing it is bad. Oh yes, have to remember to stay away from those nasty US chinese sites.

Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top

Holy shit there are a lot of old and paranoid people around here.  I guess I shouldn't poke them so much. :|

If you don't want issues with BGP to affect you, stop using the internet.  Completely.

Reply #12 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting Savyg, reply 11
Holy shit there are a lot of old and paranoid people around here.  I guess I shouldn't poke them so much.

If you don't want issues with BGP to affect you, stop using the internet.  Completely.
End of Savyg's quote

 

Yup! :rolleyes:

Reply #13 from WinCustomize Forums Top

While some of us here avoid such sites like Facebook and others the vast majority of the people will not. Mostly because they are ignorant of such practices. Even if they did know it wouldn't keep them away. Too many of their friends, family, coworkers, wannabe this, that and the other thing are on them. As for the up and coming youngsters. Well ... if you ain't there you ain't cool or some such nonsense.

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

If you want to be sure your communication is not "inspectable", there is a way - use encryption. That's why USA banned all cryptography tech exports some 10 years ago (until they realized how futile it is) - Uncle Sam wants to read your packets too. Better yet, if you are really paranoid, use TOR.

Reply #15 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting Savyg, reply 11
Holy shit there are a lot of old and paranoid people around here. 
End of Savyg's quote

Ah to be young and innocent again. Wait young man, one day you'll be a dad and eat those words. Worry will be your middle initial also. B)

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Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting Scoutdog, reply 3
The fact that we've all heard about it so quickly makes me think it's probably an innocent glitch. The life expectancy of a coverup is usually a few years.
End of Scoutdog's quote

Not necessarily.  You can determine your route to those sites with a simple traceroute.  Cross referencing the IP numbers with Arin will tell you what servers you are passing through.  Most do not do that, but for those who run these networks, they do it as routine (to make sure just such a thing is not happening).  So the people that did it may have done so innocently, but they may also not be the ones that reported it (and probably were not).  figuring out WHY it happened would help in determing if it was intentional, but that is not conclusive even then.

For me, if it was "innocent", why have we not been routed through Germany or Brazil to those sites in the past?  The routing quacks like a duck and swims like one.  if it walked like one as well, there would be no doubt.  So far, we do not know how it walks.

Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 9
Some software to trace your path:

http://internet.software.informer.com/download-internet-explorer-graphical-trace-route/

http://www.infopackets.com/news/internet/2002/20020917_using_trace_route_and_ping_to_trace_pathways_on_the_internet.htm

http://route-tracing.softplatz.net/

Just an FYI from the doc.
End of DrJBHL's quote

Cool!  Cut out the middle man (cross referencing).

Reply #18 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Yep... figured someone might like it. ;)

Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Quoting Dr, reply 16
For me, if it was "innocent", why have we not been routed through Germany or Brazil to those sites in the past? The routing quacks like a duck and swims like one. if it walked like one as well, there would be no doubt. So far, we do not know how it walks.
End of Dr's quote
With a purely isolated incident like this one, it's impossible to establish any comparison. But China has a huge population with relatively good internet connectivity (even if the information they can access over that connectivity is restricted) so if something were to happen randomly, I'd say it would most likely end up in China.

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting Scoutdog, reply 19
so if something were to happen randomly, I'd say it would most likely end up in China.
End of Scoutdog's quote

My mom told me to quit digging or I would end up there as well. ;)

Reply #21 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting Scoutdog, reply 19
With a purely isolated incident like this one, it's impossible to establish any comparison.
End of Scoutdog's quote

So, from the OP:

“A similar incident surfaced almost exactly a year ago on April 8, 2010, when a Chinese ISP incorrectly published a set of BGP (Border Gateway Protocol) instructions that could have potentially affected 37,000 networks. The incident lasted only 18 minutes, and China Telecom, the country’s largest ISP, denied trying to hijack Internet traffic. Experts speculated it was an accident because of how quickly it was fixed.”
End of quote

 

"In March 2010, traffic to sites such as YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook was redirected to servers in China, giving Web surfers around the globe a glimpse of what Chinese Internet users see when they try to access those blocked sites. In November 2010, traffic for 15 percent of the world’s destinations, coming from military and civilian government networks in the UK, the US, Australia, and South Korea started re-directing through China Telecom.

It’s not clear if all of this rerouting is being done on purpose to help China collect intelligence. The Chinese government of course denies such allegations. Experts are still trying to figure out how it happens and how to prevent it in the future."

Source: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/facebook/us-facebook-data-passed-through-chinese-south-korean-isps/970

 

 You see it wasn't, and I'm far from convinced it was innocent.

Reply #22 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Passing this one around.

Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Although the existence of a second incident also linked to China makes it a bit of an odd coincidence, I don't particularly see why the Chinese government would want to be doing this. It's not as though they can get a lot of actionable intelligence from YouTube and the like, and if they wanted to make some money by data-mining they could just do that off of their own citizens. The amount of disruption and attention caused by this just doesn't seem to be justified by its potential benefit. Compared to what we've seen of China's cybersecruty and cyberwarfare capabilities, this sort of thing seems clunky and somewhat amateurish. I have no doubt that every major power is monitoring the others' civilian and military internet traffic. I just don't think that any of them are doing it with these "hiccups".

Reply #24 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Coincidence?

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 21
In November 2010, traffic for 15 percent of the world’s destinations, coming from military and civilian government networks in the UK, the US, Australia, and South Korea started re-directing through China Telecom.
End of DrJBHL's quote

Quoting Scoutdog, reply 23
I have no doubt that every major power is monitoring the others' civilian and military internet traffic. I just don't think that any of them are doing it with these "hiccups".
End of Scoutdog's quote

So, is it a coincidence or not? Three times? I don't think so.

Reply #25 from WinCustomize Forums Top

The Chinese are of a different mindset. Do not make the mistake of attributing to them western values. They can learn more about us just by observing our habits. What we do and how do it. Likes and dislikes. Uncle Sam may not be the best in the world but he isn't stupid. And yes, common sense says that each country that can will monitor civilian and military traffic. That's a no-brainer. Even allies do it to each other. Not too long ago an individual was caught, in the country, gathering data for Israel, sensitive data. Sorry Doc. I'm no anti-Semite. Its a matter of public record. It was reported in all the major papers. Arrested yes. Convicted of spying, no. Sent back home with a slap on the wrist. Anyone else would have been jailed. Between the US and China its brinksmanship. Who can outdo the other. The Soviet Union tried and got spent under the table. Such will not be the case with China. Far better for the US and China to enter into an alliance which has already been offered and which China is considering. A combined US and Chinese military would be the greatest defense this planet has ever seen bar none.