master1a

Join Date 01/2008

+10

Complaint about smurfing

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=M3NHRJIH

/begin rant

There are 2 replays played 2 days apart one is a 5v5 match the other is a 2v2

When I see a new player/account name I try to look and see how he is doing, is he a pro smurf or noob. In the 5v5 it looked to me like HP_DVP6 was a noob, if you are skilled and watch him you will probably see why I thought that. (note: I didn’t watch him the whole game just zoomed out a few times to see what he was doing/building)

Then 2 days later I get in a 2v2 game; now before the game started I asked if anyone was a smurf. Kzm said he wasn’t, HP_DVPG said nothing. Okay should be an easy game we have 2 non pro players on the other team so I don’t have to go all out on them and kill them asap.

Now if you watch both replays you will see that the skill does not match up for HP_DVP6 he plays much better in the 2v2 more then can be accounted for skill gained in 2 days. I can only assume that he wanted to look unskilled till he found a game he wanted to win.

Well what am I supposed to do? Play 100% every game because I don’t know when I play with good players or complete noobs? Start smurfing myself? One is lots of work and stressful and can be discouraging to new players, the other, I and alot of other players regard as dishonorable.

Also what happens if someone acts bad enough that no one wants to play with them; take "the spammer" for example: no one wants to play with him no problem he'll just makes a new smurf and no one knows who he is anymore; then what happens if a honest new player joins right after he leaves? do you think that player is going to be welcome.

/end rant

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ZombiesRus5

Join Date 02/2009

+340

HP_DVPG disconnected really early in the 5v5 game.

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Thanks Zombie, I guess that makes a large portion of my rant invalid.

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ZombiesRus5

Join Date 02/2009

+340

I kinda remembered one of your teammates dropping in that game but I can see how you thought his play was odd. I've seen better AI play than that before.

BTW, I play as BrainDead.

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The only part it makes invalid is him playing crappy one game and good the next. It does not change the argument made against smurfing. One can generally gather how honorable another player on here is by the proportion of time he spends on a "main".

[_]-Greyfox

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Quoting Greyfox2,

reply 4

Playing more on your main does not equal more honorable. You can be a jerk on your main. Better to be honorable always regardless if people are look or not.

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BTW what were their records? Most wins or loses? or 0 games?

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Quoting JohnJames,

reply 5

Playing more on your main does not equal more honorable. You can be a jerk on your main. Better to be honorable always regardless if people are look or not.

I will agree that it is better to be honorable whether or not someone knows who you are. It has been said that the real test of someone's character is what one does when no one else is looking. You can certainly be a jerk on your main but at least its somewhat more honest if you are.

The definition of honor

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/honor

1. honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions: a man of honor.

Smurfing is not honest. You are intending to deceive someone as to who you are. Smurfing is not fair. You are trying to hide your skill for your own benefit to make things uneven. One could hardly have integrity in their actions when they are hiding said actions. Smurfing has no honor.

[_]-Greyfox

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Both had under 15 games mixed win/losses but with a game count that low stats really aren't that reliable.

About smurfing being honorable, some think it is some think it isn't, as for me I personally regard it as something that is often (but not always) used in not quite honorable way. Some people are against it for a variety of reasons and will be till the day they die, some don't care one way or the other, and some wonder why people cant open their minds to smurfing and accept it as a legitimate thing to do (after all its programmed into ICO so it must be acceptable). At this point I don't think arguing or debating about it will help improve the community, it will just widen the schism between the anti-smurf and the pro-smurf players. (I know I made this post and I shouldn't have if all I thought it would do was widen a schism in the community; I was having a bad day and let out all the anti-smurf pressure that had been building up for a while).

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It's not a matter of widening the schism. People will believe what they want to believe. JJ and others will continue to smurf to gain unfair advantage and I will keep calling them dishonorable cowards. I am not going to move to their side and its unlikely they will move to mine so you are right in that regards.

Using the argument that if its programmed then it is acceptable is an iffy thing. One could use the same argument to say many things such as abusing exploits in the game. If I were to use hyperbole and expand upon that line of argument, some whackjob could say its ok to go on a killing spree because guns were made to kill people with so it must be an acceptable thing to do. Just because something is there and easily done does not make it right to do.

[_]-Greyfox

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Quoting JohnJames,

reply 5

Quoting Greyfox2, reply 4The only part it makes invalid is him playing crappy one game and good the next. It does not change the argument made against smurfing. One can generally gather how honorable another player on here is by the proportion of time he spends on a "main".

[_]-Greyfox

Playing more on your main does not equal more honorable. You can be a jerk on your main. Better to be honorable always regardless if people are look or not.

true dat, i will call others black peoples from deepest parts of Africa, if they suck, regardless under what nick i play....

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Majority of your active clanmates smurf quite a bit, Grey. If it's such dishonor why you allow that? You seem only bothered with DT smurfs.

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I am bothered by all smurfs. I have jumped onto some of them repeatedly for doing so(sunny comes to mind). It isn't just DT. You are included in that Mecha although you are up DTs' ass in general so much that you might as well claim to be in their nonexistant clan. Some of my clan does smurf although not to near the degree of others. One can see easily that my own clan exists and is active. Those that do smurf do so considerably less than everyone else that much is obvious since it is not terribly uncommon when I am on to see 3 or 4 of them besides myself. I am not their dad nor am I yours. As long as they are not griefing or acting like jackasses to my knowledge then I do not take action against them clan wise(some have been kicked for this such as ascension/blackswordcommand and KoK/Sire). It's not like they would suffer terribly in any case since we are the only clan left.

Regardless of my feelings I could hardly stop them. There is no way to know generally what their smurfs are. They don't often tell me their smurfs and I frequently forget who the hell they are anyways. It doesn't change my perspective. I do not partake in it myself and I think its a dishonorable practice. I think less of those that do practice it(including my clanmates that partake and you, mecha, not that you give a shit). I have no control over what people do over the internet sometimes thousands of miles away. I can only say what I do and what I will do is continue to stick to what I feel as right and not smurf. You can continue to hide like a coward and pat yourself on the back for winning with uneven teams.

[_]-Greyfox

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Grey must commit an e-seppuku to retain his e-honor!

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My honor was not infringed upon. Go back to trolling your own thread.

[_]-Greyfox

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Clan leadership is hardly parenthood. You detest smurfing so much you call it dishonorable and cowardish, yet you refuse to do anything about it on your own courtyard. One might think you hold your own clan to higher standard than others, but instead you just.... sweep it under the rug. It's nearly taboo. BiA in fact are closet smurfs. I dont have anything against BiA nor am I DT fanboy, I just hate your hypocrisy. If smurfing is absolute evil then do something about it, if it's not then don't use it to besmirch others. Your holy anti-smurf crusade is rotten at it's core.

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Quoting Greyfox2,

reply 12

One can see easily that my own clan exists and is active. ... It's not like they would suffer terribly in any case since we are the only clan left.

I hate to break this to you, but if your clan is the only clan left, it is not "active" by definition. When was the last time you guys played a clan match? Are you guys participating on a competitive Sins ladder? No? This game doesn't really have a clan scene, IMHO. What we have are loose affiliations of people who sometimes wear community clan tags. There's nothing wrong with being in a "community clan", but they aren't engaging in real clan activity.

Here's what a real clan scene looks like, btw:

http://web.archive.org/web/20031228174006/www.provinggrounds.com/ladder.cfm?ladder=73

http://web.archive.org/web/20040212020323/www.provinggrounds.com/ladder.cfm?ladder=5

There's nothing like that in Sins, so don't get too excited about your clan's existence and activity. Note that [DT] tags are also commonly visible on ICO.

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Quoting Cpt_Siddy,

reply 13

Grey must commit an e-seppuku to retain his e-honor!

Cuting off his litle finger could also be considered and act of honor after a shamefull faliure as BIA leader.

But i bet he isnt THAT MUCH honorable.

Grey is just like a polititian, cleen on the suface, full of big words, but hes empty, its just a pose.

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Quoting DirtySanchezz,

reply 16

Quoting Greyfox2,
reply 12
One can see easily that my own clan exists and is active. ... It's not like they would suffer terribly in any case since we are the only clan left.

I hate to break this to you, but if your clan is the only clan left, it is not "active" by definition. When was the last time you guys played a clan match? Are you guys participating on a competitive Sins ladder? No? This game doesn't really have a clan scene, IMHO. What we have are loose affiliations of people who sometimes wear community clan tags. There's nothing wrong with being in a "community clan", but they aren't engaging in real clan activity.

Here's what a real clan scene looks like, btw:

http://web.archive.org/web/20031228174006/www.provinggrounds.com/ladder.cfm?ladder=73

http://web.archive.org/web/20040212020323/www.provinggrounds.com/ladder.cfm?ladder=5

There's nothing like that in Sins, so don't get too excited about your clan's existence and activity. Note that [DT] tags are also commonly visible on ICO.

If there are several of us on and wear tags and play together at times, I call that an active clan. I am aware there are no others beside BIA that fit that. The only one I have seen wear his tag at all in the past several months is Star(granted I am not quite as active myself as I used to be). There are no clan matches that I am aware of because no one else has enough around or they are not on mains enough to even catch. DT is too busy smurfing to care at all and the rest have no real presence either. I am fully aware of ladders. I was playing in clan ladders 15 or 16 years ago with the original red alert.

[_]-Greyfox

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Clans members play on the same team. Thats the reason to join a clan. You get to play with players you know and trust.

SOSE game culture doesnt allow for clan members to play as a team mainly due to the wide difference in skills and lack of players who online to bring proper clan competitiveness.

We can restart clan matches again, but most DT members have moved to new games like sc2 and crysis.

I can either restart DT or a new clan to compete.

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Ech JJ u scared him to death with your post and showing on ICO with a tag.

Or i must bark off what i told about Grey cause he is in pain after loosing his little finger

either way u know BIA has no balls to fight us.

They lost them 2 years ago after 30 loses in a row without a single win

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Quoting Qu4r,

reply 20

Ech JJ u scared him to death with your post and showing on ICO with a tag.

Or i must bark off what i told about Grey cause he is in pain after loosing his little finger

either way u know BIA has no balls to fight us.

They lost them 2 years ago after 30 loses in a row without a single win

He did? I rarely look on forums on the weekend. This is something I do when I get a little slow time at work. I am fine with playing any game. I have been playing you all for 2+ years whether I knew it or not. I thought it was kind of funny that some of you DT people actually logged onto your DT name while I was on friday. It will be nice if it lasts. Sadly I do not think it will for very long. It was mostly a response to me calling you pussies. You all did win most of the games but not all.

[_]-Greyfox

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Quoting JohnJames,

reply 19

Clans members play on the same team. Thats the reason to join a clan. You get to play with players you know and trust.

SOSE game culture doesnt allow for clan members to play as a team mainly due to the wide difference in skills and lack of players who online to bring proper clan competitiveness.

We can restart clan matches again, but most DT members have moved to new games like sc2 and crysis.

I can either restart DT or a new clan to compete.

we're not dead, and there is no need to restart DT. We have a dedicated TS3, and i'm sure you'll find that some people you thought quit are not actually in the abyss. Hit me up ingame if you want the info, or forums, up to you JJ i'd love to get you on TS3

-Star

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I agree with the original poster on smurfing issue.

You cant play 100% all the time. If you know the opponents are good , then its worth concentrating and going all-out because winning the game or atleast seeing how well you can do is compensates for the tedium of APMing 50+ , microing and concentrating.

But against smurfs , how do you know? It might not be worth it and its annoying to know that a game you havent mentallity prepared to go all out in , happens to be a smurf of a skilled player you would have loved to test the upper limits of your abilities against.

Ironclad should implement a Single Name account.

And also a [clan]Name option if you want to tag in a clan.

Any guest accounts should show up as [Guest]Account name , so you know its a guest OF a particular player.

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Thats a pretty good idea. Lets people smurf still but a lot easier to tell an actual n00b from a smurf.

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