The Grand Requestabot BALANCE Thread

ISSUE: Sovereign Balance

10 core sovereigns are not equitable - certain ones regularly seem to dominate (others get squashed by the other AI). This imbalance can be seen by determining the value that sovereigns start at as if they were made by players.

Core Assumption is that all stats (etc) are equal in game value as well as purchase value.

There are some other unaddressed issues that can be addressed with this rebalancing:

1)      The magic schools are not distributed evenly

1. Enchantment  = 7
2. Combat = 8
3. Terraforming = 4
4. Mobility = 4

2)      Some of the characters having equipment unavailable in design - Queen's staff, Axe, Dagger, etc.

3)      Verga has a ‘talent’ for his History, not a profession

4)      There is a duplication of backgrounds (FOUR with royalty)

5)      Many of the traits (especially newer ones like Green Thumb and Tracker) and disadvantages are not used

6)      Karavox  has no replacement for Organized!

7)      Starting abilities not quite matching background (talk of Verga with a blade, but starts with a club. Karovox is a powerful channaller, but with only 10 Int)

8)      Kul and Verga having armlets that give +2 rather than the +1 in the store for players

9)      Verga starting with a stat greatly above what is generally permitted, e.g. 18.  (this could be considered a quirk rather than an issue, see solutions below)

INFORMATION

As laid out below, updated to 1.19d

a )      Column 1 is sovereign name

b )      Column 2 is number of stat points above 50 x 3 points per stat point (e.g. Relias is 11 above 50 {i.e. all 6 stats total 61})

c )       Column 3 is magic (books)x 5

d )      Column 4 is Talents less weaknesses (discounting Verga's "naturalism", as it replaces a roughly equally powerful range of backgrounds.)

e )      Column 5 is starting Equipment (for equipment not normally available, follow rough apparent rule of Defence items=cost, and Offence items = cost/2.5, rounded (Markinn's/Carrodus's axe is a little pricey, but its metal,  one-handed and hurts like an axe in the head)

Relias               33   +  10  +  10  +  3  =  56

Procipinee         15   +  20  +  15  +  2  =  52      

Carrodus           15   +  10  +  10  +  5  =  40 

Irane                33   +  10  +    3  +  3  =   49

Markinn             27   +  10  +  7  +  3  =  47  

Ceresa               9     +  15  +    3  +  3  =   30 

Karavox            18   +  10  +  0  + 2  =   30   

Magnar III         6     +  15   + -6  +  4  =   19 

Verga               36   +  5    +  -6   + 3  =   38 

Kul-al-Kulan      15   +  10  + 10  + 3  =    38

* Dagger (5 dam) is better than staff (5 dam) as it has accuracy, speed, dodge bonuses, so can count as 3 rather than 2 (i.e. like an Axe, which does 7 dam but gives no other bonuses).

SOLUTION REASONING:

Using the current point system, rebalancing the sovereigns along the following lines:

1)      Each sovereign should cost the same (in this case 52, which is what a cunning player can effectively spend by buying a stat point for 1 point if done correctly).

2)      They are each archetypes, specialists in their own way

3)      They are all balanced in of themselves, not requiring faction selection to balance them

4)      Assumes all abilities work as described (if not that’s a game-fix, rather than balance, issue)

5)      Across all 10, use all professions, talents, and weaknesses, and starting gear

6)      Some are exceptional in some way (Verga’s strength being the precedent)

(Of course, some people might value certain traits more or less than what Elemental values them, but that is subjective (e.g. is Str as valuable for Procipinee as it is for Verga, etc?) so I'm just considering given point value.)

By fixing the imbalance it will enable two things:

1)      At standard difficulty, all the opponents are fairly equal, just different styles, magics, emphasis, etc. If you want a challenge you can push the difficulty up on the world or that faction, or possibly for a set of opponents (e.g. the Empires). As it currently stands, some are already more of a challenge than others and so if you want to equalize them then you have fiddle the difficulties around, which seems a counter intuitive design to me.

2)      Randomization of opponents and factions - e.g. Procipinee of the Yithril.  This randomization would make for more variety (e.g. Civ 4), although it may need some slight rewriting to the conversation text?

It should also not break ANY mods, unless they are sovereign balancing mods, etc.  J

SOLUTION:

I’ve detailed a new conceptualization of heroes (without going too far from the originals), with each line detailing changes where appropriate, with the first as an overall summary, then stats, spellbooks, background, abilities/disadvantages, gear, and total points added up.

1. Relias remains an adventurer par excellence  (lower stats, more movement-focus), swift on foot, whether approaching or retreating!

Str 13, Int 11, Con 12, Dex 11, Chr 12 

1. 2 Spellbooks: Mobility (to get around), Terraforming (to get over/under!)
2. Adventurer
3. Tracker
4. Shield (which grants dodge, a movement defence), travellers boots, club
5. 27+10+0+10+5 = 52

2. Procipinee is the wizard, brought up in royal surroundings, familiar with all things arcane but can be a bit condescending/blunt to others

1. Str 8, Int 18, Con 13, Dex 8, Chr 9  (lowered con, higher Int, to be the intellectual equivilent of Verga)
2. All 4 spellbooks
3. Royalty
4. Meditative, Attunement, Blunt
5. Staff
6. 18+20+0+12+2 = 52

3. Carrodus, the reformed thief now warlord, grants his cities/troops bonuses, listening to his Generals as he knows his own mental limitations

1. Str 11, Int 10, Con 14, Dex 9, Chr 13 (slight Str/Chr boost - as a warrior leading some troops)
2. 2 spellbooks: Mobility + Enchantment  (to help city/troops)
3. Warlord
4. Tactician, Intimidating, Greenthumb, Stupid
5. Warcoat, Axe, Armlets
6. 21+10+0+15+6 = 52

4. Irane, the warrior-queen, the unhittable, is the princess of stealth, the lady of nimbleness, known to throw caution to the wind because of it!

1. Str 8, Int 12, Con 11, Dex 18, Chr 12   (lower con, higher dex for a DEX/Thief theme)
2. 2 spellbooks: Combat + Mobility
3. Thief
4. Daring, Reckless
5. Travellers Boots, Shield, Armlet, Helmet, Dagger
6. 32+10+0+0+9 = 52

5. Markinn, the miner, knows/makes/is as tough as/has the personality of metal. Not a people person, he knows how to manipulate the earth’s wealth instead.

1. Str 11, Int 12, Con 15, Dex 11, Chr 6  (lower dex to get hardy, for a high HP theme)
2. 2 spellbooks: Enchantment + Terraforming
3. Miner
4. Naturalist, Wealthy, Hardy, Ugly
5. Axe, Greaves, Helmet
6. 15+10+0+22+5 = 52

 6. Ceresa, linked to the oracles, is the story-telling manipulative bard – broad knowledge, rapier smart, and a cunning cutting wit to twist people around her finger

1. Str 8, Int 14, Con 9, Dex 8, Chr 16 (Chr boost for a CHR/Bard theme)
2. 3 spellbooks: Combat, Mobility and Enchantment
3. Bard
4. Brilliant, Diplomatic
5. Staff
6. 15+15+0+20+2 = 52

7. Karavox, a channeller of great power, born for wealth and power, destroys from afar (as in his background, possibly fearing physical confrontation) is powerful but can be careless with all his might!

1. Str 10, Int 15, Con 9, Dex 15, Chr 12  (Int boost, also a minor MONEY theme)
2. 3 spellbooks: Mobility, Enchantment, Terraforming
3. Merchant
4. Meditative, Wealth, Coward, Reckless
5. War-Staff
6. 33+15+0+2+2 = 52

8. Magnar III, an ancient and deformed adversary, has deep technological knowledge even if he lacks the intelligence to apply it, has learned to wait, ignoring the needs of his people, to strike opponents when they are weakest with less complex magic multiple times

1. Str 13, Int 10, Con 14, Dex 11, Chr 7  (Dex boost, more about precision strikes than constant mass magic)
2. 3 spellbooks: Combat, Enchantment, Terraforming
3. Assassin
4. Attunement, Brilliant, Hardy, Ugly, Inefficient
5. War-Staff, Cloak, Helmet
6. 15+15+0+19+3 = 52

9. Verga, the lord of pain, the consummate scarred warrior, knows where to find your neck for his axe-head, and inspires mindless loyalty in his men, which is good as everyone else is scared to near-death of this axe-blade on legs

1. Str 18, Int 10, Con 15, Dex 14, Chr 5  (Yep, STR theme, high damage constantly in combat, better weapon, etc)
2. 1 spellbook: Combat
3. Warrior
4. Tracker, Stupid, Inefficient
5. Axe, Cuirass , Armlets, Helmet
6. 36+5+0+14+7 = 52

10. Kul-al-Kulan,  a channeller of repute, from underground caverns/dungeons, knows his fungus, and how intelligent and powerful he is, each which has driven him deadly insane, and driven other people away

1. Str 14, Int 14, Con 11, Dex 12, Chr 6  (slight Int and Con boost)
2. 2 spellbooks: Combat, Terraforming
3. Dungeon Master
4. Brilliant, Tactician, Greenthumb, Insane
5. Club, Cuirass, Helmet
6. 21+10+0+17+4 = 52

I completely agree that the core sovereigns should probably be updated, though I am not so sure about your solution. I think you point about attempting to make each sov a unique archetype is a sound idea, and would probably go a long way in giving each faction a bit more uniqueness. However, I think your point about attempting to have all 10 sovs include all possible starting choices seems a bit overboard. This would not necessarily help define any of the sovs and in some of your examples just feel odd. For instance, Relias is not a coward, nor does any of the lore point to this fact.

addendum: Sorry to not quote your rather in depth post in totality, but it is fairly lengthy

10 background and 10 sovereigns just seemed a natural fit! It just made sense to use all the features available in the game for the given personalities.  Your point about Relias is fair, I've amended my original post, but generally I've stayed pretty close to the original characters.  Keeping to their backgrounds, it could actually have made more sense making Carrodus a thief (its in his background!) and Irane a warlady (a warrior like her father).  There are lots of other quirks, and I actually took the lore as my guide (e.g. Kul-al-Kulan is noted to be linked to underground caverns, so DUNGEON master is appropriate, and to use greenthumb, the fungus (as in the giant mushrooms in the game) is of course my own invention. :)   And yes there was some creative licence at times, but no other major deviations! 

Obviously there will likely to always be small disagreement about the small details too, e.g. stats, but the point was to present a possible solution for balance that the designers can quickly and easily implement to improve the game without changes to other features.

Issue: Equipment Balance

https://forums.elementalgame.com/405008

Summary: Equipping full heavy armor and two handed dmg weapons is the only way to play. This not only kills unit diversity and strategy but is one of the main reasons the AI is so easy to beat. There are many more negative side effects. See the above Some Math for Armor thread for much more detail.