Atheism is a Religion, it's based on FAITH

Thanks for writing.

Just found your article and will post later.

Is this what all this stuff is about ... politics, you got to be joking. Politics, my-oh-my. Look , I have never heard of an atheistic ‘group’ that has reared an army to battle Christendom. I am an agnostic having learned it was unwise to be an atheist here on JU, no doubt. You guys don’t seem to have as much trouble with them go figure?  I think I understand why you consider atheism as faith based, but in doing so you also confirm that religion is also faith based.  This is the part that confuses me? Why would you do this? If there are no atheists or religious figures allowed in government … who is left to fill the vacancies … the agnostics?

Atheism is defined as a belief system that there is no God. So yes, a case can be made that Atheism is a faith based religion. 

As a religion, Atheism is basically a system of values which rejects and displaces God and puts man at the center and origin of all values.

No not joking. Think about it. How much of the world population would you say has very seriously adopted a philosophicico-political system which is expressly atheistic? 

 

I don't have a clue to be sure but … if a government is not religiously based (thank god there aren’t many of them) … what else can they be besides atheistic??? Don't you view Islam in the same atheistic manor as I view Christianity (and Islam)??? More to the point based on your OP's and posts ... you are atheistic about everything non-Catholic ... difference being, you have no proof and we atheists do. Now about this atheist religion nonsense ... you are so out of left field ... you have left the park. Just because you need a divining rod to get through life doesn't mean we all do ... religion my arse.

Get out of your Catholic dictionary and look at a regular one ... or just keep acting like a moon bat yapping at the shadows. All my poor nonbiased dictionary has to say is: disbelief in the existence of God or deities. We are then left to plod our way through life as best we can w/o your divine guidance of course. You play way to many word games in your attempts to discredit everything opposing your dogmatic beliefs. But why you insist on making every argument about god somehow ... is beyond my understanding. Just sounds like a glutton for punishment to me is all.

 

You are completely in err here so it is fair for me to assume you are a believer yourself and have no idea as to what an atheist is.  A belief in a god is not a religion any more than a disbelief in a god is. But the similarities end here. It is what happens next that separates the two. Atheists can only live up to the standards society forces on us and what our conscience dictates based on our real world life's experiences.

Theists have to build a complete circular support system to establish the who, what and the why for concerning everything in the world large and small or else the churches would be OOB for sure. But without some orthodoxy or another, the churches would again be OOB. This is where the religion part takes over. It is a self-serving self-supporting methodology that allows for no questions, tolerates no disagreement and supplies all the answers to everything for all time, get real. Even when we are all flying around in little space ships … even then???

 

Neither believing in god or disbelieving in one constitutes a religion … only something to believe in or not. From a theological standpoint there can only be two views; that of a theist or that of an atheist.  Well it seems that god is perceived as incapable (in the minds of many) of eliciting due respect or of being amply appreciated on his own merits and must need some organization or another (depends on who you ask) to explain the why’s and how to’s for the rest of the want-to-be believers, also perceived as incapable. So everything not particular to one’s specific theological beliefs is atheistic and that renders the term atheist meaningless … unless referring to a vast majority of humanity anyway. No matter one’s theological beliefs, a majority of humanity thinks otherwise.

Quoted from https://forums.joeuser.com/414656/page/1/#3116118

 

Christianity is simply a religion based on the life, teachings, and example of Jesus Christ as represented in its entirety by the NT and cherished by countless churches that teach and preach this theological dogma as FACT … as being the actual word of this man-god. What is the ‘religion of atheism’ based on, whose teachings, gospels and life example … I ask one last time. Christianity is easy to refute in its entirety by simply shattering its foundation, the rule book that governs well, your complete life I expect. The good aspect here is that I don’t have to study one damn word from your book (or any of the others) because it falls apart under its own weighty braggadocio and the claims of its followers and needs no external stimuli. I don’t need any credibility and I don’t profess to offer any because I only have secular ‘opinions’ … but I have the backing of the worldwide multicultural, multinational, multiethnic scientific community to provide any needed credibility. So I don’t care what you believe personally (as if you had concern for mine) as that is between you and your personal creator. The ‘religion of atheism … PLEASE!!!

The teachings, tenets and dogmas of Secular and Atheistic Humanism handed down over the years by various Atheists. Atheism is an idolatry which worships man and which raises man to a god. Stalin and Lenin certainly thought they were god. 

On

Keep on dreamin'!  

BTW, the foundation of Christianity is not a rule book, but rather a Person, Christ Who is God. 

 

  

Disingenuous as usual I see; so you are going to be even more deceptive than the captain has been, just great … but to be expected. What in the world could possibly be more dogmatic than religious orthodoxy for goodness sake, but you make it sound slanderous when applied to disbelievers or even to inappropriate believers. You cannot even force your catholic dogma on fellow christian believers simply because they wish to think a little for themselves or to view things a little differently … and you just cannot allow that. And yet you feel compelled to try and force this ‘stuff’ on disbelievers lock, stock and barrel … talk about miracles... 

Play all the word games you like, but if you snatch the NT out of our history ... which god would you be prostrating to since it is this NT man-god you cherish now? Is it even possible that any god could only be found in a man-made-book such that he would evaporate without it? This surely shouldn’t be a difficult concept for you as you have no problem trying to discredit every science book in the world with a wave of your belief. Anyway it was your choice to represent the bible as the literal words of this god of yours so yes, discrediting the founding and only document upon which your 'everything' is based ... would easily discredit the infallibility of your chosen god-view as well as the anonymous and bigoted people who wrote this 'stuff' in 'the beginning'.

So it seems that only a catholic is entitled to a dogmatic view or is allowed to have faith in their beliefs … what a small world you live in. I can see you are not going to just become forthcoming with an honest reply so I will answer this meaningless question for you and the captain without your silly wording. From the catholic perspective anyway, every bit of well everything, that doesn’t somehow COMPLETELY capitulate to your dogma is atheistic regardless of the level of disagreement. Your church is totally responsible for this christian ‘fight with the rest of humanity’ simply because of the disdain you express at every opportunity for anyone who dares to think for themselves or to believe in a different way. Dogmatism in theory is acceptable but when put into practice, it IS the very nature of 'bigotry at its prime' be it theological or otherwise … and you too are at your prime.

 

 

 I gave a straight forward answer to your question...and there was nothing disingenuous about it.   

"more deceptive than RCaptain" isn't a problem because, as I see it, he hasn't been deceptive at all.

If you seriously think about it, you'll find that Secular and Atheistic Humanism is just as dogmatic in their beliefs as orthodox religions are in their beliefs. 

Atheism's principal dogma, "There is no God" is quite dogmatic, won't you agree?  

Molecules-to-mankind Evolution is another one of their dogmas. 

Atheism is an idolatry which worships man and which raises man to a god is the truth and if the truth sounds slanderous to you, then so be it. 

Atheistic Humanism has its religious "denominations" too.

Some Atheistic Humanists put their faith in Science as god. Others put their faith in the environment as god. Others put their faith in the Earth as god and on and on.   

Of course I cannot force Catholic dogma on anyone, nor would I even try. I say what I say and leave it at that and people are free to take it or leave it. That said, let's discuss about who is forcing their dogmas...

The government under Obamacare HHS mandate is trying to force its pro-abortion dogma on all Catholic institutions. Is that OK with you?

Secular and Atheistic Humanists who absolutely control all government education are forcing their dogmas on unwary school children every day when they attend government schools. Teaching molecules-to-mankind Evolution as scientific fact is but one example. Is that OK with you?

Absolutely nothing about God would change if there were never a NT or an OT for that matter. The Bible is a gift of God. 

There is but One true God. The God of the OT is the same God in the NT. God is Eternal..He is always was and always will be.

We read in the OT that God promised Adam and Eve that He would send a Redeemer to redeem us of our sins and open the gates of Heaven.  That Redeemer was Himself...God made man in the Person of Jesus Christ. He is the substance of all the types and shadows prefigured in the OT law and prophecies. 

Jesus Christ is true God. That as God He existed from all eternity; that as man He was born in time, the Son of Mary, in human nature, like man in all things save sin. 

 

The atheist does not believe any god has been proven to exist and humanism is a system of thought that is based on the values, characteristics, and behavior that are believed to be best in human beings, rather than on any supernatural authority. Guilty as charged (something new here?) and proud of it I am afraid, hahaha geeze. What in the world is a nonbeliever supposed to believe in for goodness sake … the man in the moon or maybe their alien parents … get a life. There is nothing dogmatic about my beliefs because they are changeable given just a fact or two. Say, how about some Christian, Jewish and Islamic consensus first so we can have this discussion just one time. And the reason you blame me for dogmatism is because you force the issue at every opportunity. If I want to talk about homosexuals (???) or gay rights you force the god issue, not me. If I want to discuss stem cell research or abortions you force the god issue, not me. When I want to discuss science, any fracking branch concerned with any freeking thing in the universe you force the god issue, not me. See the pattern here. Any subject matter presented under any pretext for any reason … but not conforming to RCCC … is immediately made into a god issue seemingly just to end further rational discussion. No Lula, there has been little you have said for a long time now that is ‘OK’ with me … but I am just a simple disbeliever silly so don’t even pretend to be surprised. The difference is: I just don't believe in your man-god (or any deity) but you, you despise everything un-catholic which encompasses mankind’s total knowledge bank ... everything else. Lula I have spent plenty of time trying to convince you that I just do not believe in god(s) … and you have spent all of your time telling me that I am not even allowed to believe in anything else???

This is such a no-brainer but theologically I guess everything is just another argument. Just think of all the things that have to be all screwed up for monotheism to become acceptable: All the sciences are pseudo, all our history is meaningless, the complete fossil record is a deceptive ploy, medicine as we know it today is just wrong, all our astronomical findings are wistful, our bogus biology expertise, geology in its entirety, archeology as nothing but speculation, paleontology is just guess work, physics as whimsically alterable, chemistry as some art and the list just continues almost endesly. All of this and so much more just to try and justify god, amazing that. It is so difficult to talk to Christians in particular because there are just too damn many different kinds with too many different beliefs let alone allowing any consideration for other faiths and beliefs??? How pompous can a human become presenting their case based solely on bad evidence just never ceases to amaze me?

Cat got your tongue Captain ... or do you need more time to uncover this illusive religion, just wondering??? Don't feel too bad though because I gave up trying to find it myself.

I believe this is a little contradictory but I’ll bite. Let's go ahead and have this discussion then ... without the bible you said you didn't need, for that matter.

How so?

 

Lula, it is really quite simple. Why don't you explain it to me as opposed to just telling me it is so as you normally do, as you did here? Without the NT, I would be interested to hear about what god there could be to supplicate oneself to if it is not YHWY? This is a given without the NT and if we wanted to stick with your original claim that you don’t even need the OT either, then whence did YHWY come let alone Jesus? Why is it so difficult to just say you were wrong or that you misspoke is beyond me to understand? Not sure what this has to do with the 'religion of atheism' though? Seems that you used both the NT and OT (reply #11) anyway ... even though you didn’t have to???

PS – Jythier, your witty wit never ceases to amaze me so pray continue, with no detail or meaning please … as usual. Or is this just another HH moment for you?

GFT, would you exist if you didn't write these posts?  So where did your posts come from?  Or rather, where did you come from, if not from your posts?

 

 

 

First by the term "God" I mean God is a spiritual, substantial, personal Being, infinite in intelligence, in will and in all perfections, immutable, and infinitely superior to all that is or can be conceived apart from Himself. He is incomprehensible in His infinite perfections although knowable as to the fact of His existence as Creator and Lord of Heaven and earth, Almighty, Eternal, and distinct from all He has created. 

 

The point I was making in my statement is that although Almighty God is not thoroughly comprehensible to us, we can attain a certain degree of knowledge concerning Him if there were never the Holy Bible to tell us of the infinite plenitude of His perfections. That 's why I said the Bible is a gift of God. Got is Eternal, He is, always was and always will be. That's why I said absolutely nothing about God would change if there were never the Bible. God and His Infinite Perfections are not subject to the Bible which was written in time and time began with God's creation. 

God alone is; all else is dependent. 

He is....means He does not become progressing from less to greater perfection. God is Eternal means He never ceases to be what He is or was or always will be, nor does He change. He alone is Infinite, and Eternal Being, Uncaused, yet casuing all else to receive being and such degrees of perfection as He chooses to bestow. 

The finite human mind can affirm the perfections of God without the Bible. 

For example, we can understand that there is an Infinite God without the Bible. Our reason tells us that there is one true God. 

That there is an Almighty God must be clear to every thinking person for the fact is clearly proved by the visible world with its laws and orderliness which testifies to God's Wisdom. So we don't need the Bible to know that nature reveals God to us as the First Cause, the Designer and origin of life. If there were never the Bible, we can conceive the fact that there is a Being (God) not finite as are the things that Being has made. No one can reasonably think that the world made itself, nor the heavenly bodies move through space by their own power. 

We can know that absolutely nothing about God would change if there were never a Holy Bible from the the supernatural light of Faith. 

You seem to forget (or perhaps you never knew) that besides the Bible (Sacred Scripture), there is another Divine source of faith from which we can learn about God called Sacred Tradition. Tradition is a revealed truth not found in Scripture and can be found in ex cathedra documents of the Popes and Councils, in the Creeds, and in the works of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, (some of whom were contemporaries of the Apostles.). 

 

 

 

 

Those who deny the existence of God are called Atheists..(Greek A-not, and theos-God). I've discussed Atheism with many  people over the years and have found that such people usually have reasoned themselves  or have been led by others into a state of doubt in regard to the existence of God. Their state of mind arises from pride, or from corruption of heart, or from a misguided education, or from all three. 

St.Augustine said, "he who denies the existence of God has some reason for wishing God did not exist."

In talking with people who call themselves atheists, I've found that to be true. 

 

 

So Mr. Augustine has an opinion here but so do I. I don't care if there is an all-powerful seer or not until such time as it makes itself known ... or someone can prove its existence. If you are claiming some deist view without the bible that is fine too ... but this entity would not bear the name of Jesus, how could it, which is my point here. Unfortunately, we just cannot 'forget' what we believe to entertain someone else's fantasies. Your god did not give us a book(s), it never authored any book(s) and it never told people what to put in their book(s). These are the things people do as a deity would have no use for materialistic brouhaha or mind control through deceptive means so I would think anyway.

My actual experience as an atheist is that other atheists just don’t care to entertain something they don’t believe in. If there is an atheist out there (I’m sure there are) who hates god(s), well they are not really atheists at all then. People who do not believe in the gods develop differing degrees of ‘dislike’ for the practitioners of any religion who day in and day out tries to make others (all) conform to their dogma on so faulty evidence without a lick of proof.  God doesn’t have anything to do with this for an atheist, you do. I know how you feel about other gods, but you don’t have to look any further than the first commandment to understand what your own god thought on the matter: “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”.

 

Lula, whenever you are discussing God, you are discussing Jesus. But in light of ‘no bible’, you haven’t offered anything of substance to justify your Catholic Church let alone their peculiar beliefs. Without the bible and the literature spawned from it, you would not know up from down. You can claim whatever you want concerning the reliability of the human species to repeat ‘traditions’ unaltered or unmodified throughout the eons, but I call it an impossibility. Just look at the written errors and inaccuracies and tell me with a straight face that the oral versions were  without? Everything that was used to justify a Christian god came from the Jews or was interjected by other Jews who wanted to divorce themselves from YHWY which was but one of the gods believed to exist then (and today).

I do not acknowledge that we (I) have finite minds or at least we have a long road to walk before we cry uncle; I just cannot learn another thing, egad? If by finite you mean a lack of belief in the improvable, well that is the only exception I can think of, and that is not very realistic. God didn’t teach me anything, my parents did, there was that time I ended up in jail overnight and that convinced me the State had a thing or two to teach too. But god, no. The priests never taught me anything, they just told what anything was and why I have to believe it too. Sunday school didn’t teach me how to read the bible, they just told me what it really means. I have a reasonable understanding of the universe and am perfectly capable of reading and understanding any book without guidance and the bible is no exception. I highly recommend that believers read the bible cover to cover, because when I did, I took my ‘god lock’ off and decided to see what the real world thought of such things. Two years later I removed the ‘god lock’ from my ballot and became an atheist.

Well it is today and we have a few extra ways of verifying things unavailable to anyone (except god I suppose) during the first 1,500 years of Christianity, under penalty of torture or death. It took mankind less than 100 years to totally disprove all the claims concerning original sin and everything that holds to a young earth. Our differing views is better expressed as ~300, 000,000% of a difference of opinions, hardly just a miscalculation. My guesstimation is based on the scientific view of the entire world and yours is based on who begot whom. You do not have to believe science as you see fit, but you have to understand the magnitude of things you would have others believe on faith. Lula, we guesstimate the earth to be 4.54 billion years old, even allowing for an unrealistic error of +/- 4 billion years, there is still the 540 million years left to disprove a short lived earth. Unfortunately this time scale will not allow for a long lived earth either? Biblically we cannot even be here because it cannot be true???

PS – without the bibles(s), there would be no short lived earth???

Your margin of error is very unrealistic.  It should be a lot closer to 4.54 billion years off.

But we already had that argument.

I have not had a discussion with you because you don't want to discuss anything. As an upfront example, I will pose a few questions for you and ... well let's just see what happens next. What about a biblical short lived earth explains the Egyptian Empire in all its glory with its gods possessing all the Christian attributes more than 15 centuries before its conception. How about all those Chinese pagans such as those in the historically recorded Xia Dynasty established 21 centuries before Christianity was a thought; from whence came they in their multitudes? You might want to consider that the first Europeans to arrive in China took place in the 15th or 16th century ACE probably because it was so easy to get to but they had religious problems at home that put them off by about 36 centuries. I Don’t need science as history is proof enough, but it is nice that the two agree.

PS - I rest my case up front too.

What exactly am I supposed to be speaking to here?  If the earth is 6000 years old, and the oldest you can go back is 21 centuries before Christianity, then you have only gone back 2100 years... where's the conflict?