Limiting Uberheroes

from Elemental Forums

I remember following the development of Age of Wonders Shadow Magic about 10 years ago, and since those guys were and are pretty much as open to suggestions and feedbacks as Stardock, I had a pretty good impression of what was going on.

At some point they ended up with the same issues that Elemental is having now: Heroes were too strong.

In fact probably most people noticed that in order to win in these latest versions of the game one can just pump up a few heroes and auto fight anything they see.

the AOW developers thus decided to cap heroes level to 30 and allow experience points only to those units who blew the final blow to a dying enemy. I believe that would work here too. Each enemy would give a certain specific amount of experience but only the one unit that actually hits them last gets the points. I can see that not everyone may agree with that, but in fact that adds some spice to battles, since one needs to be careful about when to endanger his precious heroes.

Of course that would also mean that if a unit retreats during a battle gets no experience and most units involved in the fight would get no experience at all if the fight was too simple. Makes sense and works.

Personally I would also limit the amount of experience points a hero gets after a battle. IMO 3 are way too many, one would be enough.

I also wouldn't mind if the experience points were randomly distributed by the game. As it is now they all go into attack and defense, but randomizing their experience would force us to apply specific new strategies and adapt to their differentiation and peculiarities.

The fact of limiting heroes would also finally make armies more useful again, something we have lost in the latest versions of the game.

 

 

 

7,159 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

The issue isn't so much the heroes level, it's the equipment combined with STR.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

True, all that should be tuned down and magic stuff shouldn't be for sale everywhere that cheap.

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

If the AI built up its logistics, it could defeat nearly any hero. I would hate to see heroes nerfed before we have a competent AI logistically.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

I agree with all these suggestions - but what do you think about this?

1) Making them a bit rarer.

2) Making them primarily come from quests/special events. 

For example, each time you click on them to speak - a dialogue comes up.  Maybe they are being hunted by creatures you have to destroy. Maybe at an inn you hear a rumor of a hero stuck in a cavern somewhere - you go there, defeat some creatures and he fights by your side during the battle.  He/she then offers their allegience.

They don't always have to be quest items. for example:

Maybe one appears when you destroy a particularly tough enemy unit - and your defeat of it releases a prisoner.  Or maybe when taking a city from an enemy.  Or maybe when you click to speak, they have some requirement of your kingdom such as a shard, or an ancient library - otherwise they don't join you until you do meet the requirements.

At least you now have a story as to why they are loyal to you.

On a tangent for a minute - maybe they also have their own lives.  Like they sometimes leave to pursue some quest on their own - or maybe you have the option to follow them on it (otherwise they are gone for 10 turns). 

And that reminds me - what about a loyaty rating - that goes up the more you do for them.

BOTTOM LINE: I want a story as to why each hero is with me - I want it to be special, not common.  And I certainly don't want them to simply be because I paid them 100 gold.  Right now they don't have a whole lot of personality/character.  I like ROME total war and how each general felt like a unique personality.

But I digress....

Mozo

 

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

The big problem is equipment.  What is underneath the equipment doesn't really matter.  We shouldn't have weapons values that range from an attack of 3 to an attack of 60.  The value of the unit should be based on the unit itself, more than the equipment.  The whole system is silly.  They keep changing the numbers and it just reflects how fundamentally flawed it is.  But, I think they can make it better, and hope things aren't as dreary as I believe.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Agreed, equipment and overabundant gold are the problem.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Sions are much more powerful than heroes. They all have spell immunity and triple strike (savage strike). I have 30+ heroes and I am losing them by the dozens against these guys. Actually makes for some fun gameplay. I wouldn't change a thing.  ^_^

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Yea, the Scions can kill anything in one hit.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

UberHeroes are kinda the point of this type of game.  Don't like them -- play GalCiiv 2 or Total War.  (Well, maybe Civilization, but I haven't played that series since original DOS Civ).

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Heroes cannot take on companies. Fact of life. Balance. Companies are usually cheaper but take longer to produce. Use a spell to get them instantly. 

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

 

Experience should be based on damage dealt with a bonus to the killing blow.

 

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting SirKid, reply 11
 

Experience should be based on damage dealt with a bonus to the killing blow.
 


 

Agreed. The heros are not the problem. The AI inability to deal with them is.