Im tired of the Artificial-(non)Intelligence cheating.

Inb4dirtysaysplaysinsonline.

Seriously though, since the AI is hard coded, there is not much you can do besides playing against human players now. Its a problem in all games really after you get to a certain point sadly.

i would but i got sick of pros killing noobs

Upsets do happen, you know.

dammit i was going to say that.

I do think some ai improvments are in the works, but they wont be superfantastic. (will most likely still suicide on starbases)

That patch is due what... well, 4 weeks ago they said in 3 weeks so... any day now.  I think they are waiting for people to send in some mesh file error something or others.

It sounds like he's having a lot of problems.  Either he's playing against Unfair, Vicious, or Cruel AIs or he might not be cut out for online multiplayer against human opponents (at least not yet), lol.

Yup, the only way to play against opponents that don't get eco buff cheats is to play against other human players.  However, they are capable of using real strategy and tactics and are thus liable to be much tougher than the AI.  He'll find lots of things to gripe about.  "I hate getting rushed!"  "I hate Skinatra Scramble Bomber spam."  "I hate getting starbased."  "I hate starting out in the suicide spot."  Well, learning how to counter all of that or how to deal with it is just part of the game.  Everyone loses games from time to time.  Sometimes it's about figuring out how to help your team and make a contribution even when you're getting beaten.

You do need to have a sense of perseverance and competitive spirit (and perhaps cajones and a sense of macho) to play against other people in online multiplayer, but if you do, it's awesome and so much more satisfying and entertaining than playing against AI.

Naw, im not having any problems. I just dont like the lack-of-skill advantage that the upper-level AI get, simply getting things faster than possible. And yeah, im playing vs unfair+. 

AI coding is actually something that mildly interests me, however, and IF i get into a coding career I might try my hand at some AI. But even with the current AI, it would be just as simple as some conditionals with a response, i.e. "larger enemy force in sector, my cap ship is low/destroyed-- response= retreat" or "Number of failed attacks on one planet>9000 -- response= find another planet to attack"

Not gonna lie, they do occasionally show some intelligence, but then you get the herp derps who build their SB on the wrong side of the sector, or send a fleet of only planet bombers to a defended planet.

If you're tired of them, don't choose these difficulty levels. The hard AI doesn't cheat but plays very well.

I think, I may be very happy, because I'm not a pro, so I really can enjoy playing this game as well as some other great strategies.

In that case, at least if you have the Diplomacy expansion, then maybe you're ready to log onto Ironclad Online and try playing in a 4v4 or 5v5 game.  The best times for that seem to be between 3-10 pm U.S. Eastern Time.

Hard coded conditionals in todays AI is a horiffic idea.

Here are some links to articles that talk about AI for the FPS game, F.E.A.R.   While the AI requirements of a RTS and a FPS are different,  the underlying frameworks is the same.  No scripting, no "simple" conditionals. Instead, allow the computer to query the world, decide what it wants to do, and figure out how to get from the state it's in, to the state it wants to be in.

An overview of how this works    http://aigamedev.com/open/reviews/fear-ai/

That article in turn links to a couple of papers by Jeff Orkin, who I belive did the AI for F.E.A.R.

I people want to write scripts for AI AI will never get smarter and so far as AI goes scripts are pretty much reality...

If they try to create AI according to previous post people need to realize that they must not restart AI from game to game but somehow enable AI to use experience and decisions from previous games... But even then it will take time for AI to grow from infant to child and eventually into wise man....

Until then cheating is the only way AI will be a challenge

To OP

I don't like to use sb in every gravity well strategy as well

Have you considered to play against multiple hard AIs that are allied at the same time. Hard AI doesn't cheat but at the same time it's quite capable of coordinating attacks.....

No.  The Hard AI also cheats.  Only the Normal & Easy doesn't cheat.

Hard is a 1.5X cheat.  Or 50% more income, metal & crystal.
Unfair      2X   cheat.  Or double
Cruel       4X   cheat.  Or Quadruple
Vicious     6X   cheat.  I'm sure you get the gist.  How Ridiculous!

For proof, just see the third chart down (credits, metal & crystal "gained from planet").  Start a game with each type, quit after a few seconds, look at the charts.

In practice, its own ineptitude and management largely negates its resource bonus, so it doesn't "feel" like it's cheating.

Vicious is pretty nasty; at x6 income, it can basically research every technology, fill every logistic and tactical slot, max out startbases, and still keep all its factories producing frigates at all times.  For all intents and purposes, infinite cash.  I actually don't think it would be POSSIBLE to create a much more challenging AI just by raising its resource cheat.

Not too mention the fact that Cruel and Viscous also get research bonuses.

Yeah, I actually have some deep respect for the FEAR AI. Whoever did that game's AI did it right, imo. The only other (fps) AI out there that competes is the Halo:Reach Elite's AI, or so ive heard, but that was years later.

I will give props to SoaSE AI makers, cause the AI does present challenges at times, but after  awhile i would think there could be some "simple" tweaks identified to let them make better decisions. Maybe instead of hard coding conditionals, do increasing percentages, i.e. "as enemyFleet:myFleet ratio increases, increase probability of retreat, check every 10 seconds" so that they dont just pass a number threshold and retreat, but gives the illusion of making 'choices' as a battle turns against them. Or complicating the current conditionals, letting them take into account more variables when making a choice to do something. I dont know how they did their AI so I obviously cant make real suggestions, but hey, I can try. And hope.

it's sad that sins in itself is such a good game, but it has 1)a weak and repetitive ai and 2) a miniscule multiplayer playerbase that's hardly accessible to new players

As an example of just how retarded the AI is, last night a Vasari AI (of a player who had dropped from the game) tried to build a starbase (alone, without any support ships to help it at all) in a gravity well where I had a carrier-based fleet with about 50 bombers.  Of course, it died immediately at a (wasted) cost of about 2700 credits and about 350 metal and 325 crystal.

Well in contrast to what you are saying dirty I have seen some human players do the same thing or even worse. Yes AI is stupid but in this case its just reflecting human opponents.

Yessirree Bob!  There are still some new players online for other newer players to match up against.

If your not interested in doing the whole people play thing. You could set limits on yourself when you play against the AI. Like no SB the entire game, or only 1 Cap. etc etc etc. Think it as challenge mode. I find it fun just to limit myself like that. My favorite is only 15 Carrier Crusier limit, its even more...fun...when you increase the fleet points to 3x. Hehehe...

I do the same as -UE_Carbon does when I play against AI. My goal is to beat cruel AI without building a single SB...... and vicious with allowed to build only 1 SB.... 

GalCiv II AI is good. They should get the Stardock AI developers together with Ironclad. Or try to evolve simulated neural network for Sins - emergent intelligence FTW!