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The Stardock Game Roadmap 2011

The Stardock Game Roadmap 2011

This week I’ve been presenting internally our company business plan for 2011. Part of this is the Stardock Customer Report 2011 (which we’ll be making available publicly soon) along with our road map on the studio games (this doesn’t count future titles from our partner Ironclad who developed Sins of a Solar Empire nor does it address next steps in the Demigod franchise.

This journal entry will likely only be of interest to either techies or biz types. So if you’re looking for interesting game feature stuff, you’ll probably want to skip this.

The Road Map

Essentially every studio has a road map. They just don’t make it public for obvious reasons.  Since we’re privately held, we can pretty much do whatever we’d like and one of the things we like is to keep our fans up to speed on what the heck is happening here.

So below is the road map for the studio developed (Stardock Entertainment’s studio) titles.

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Kumquat

Kumquat is just our internal nickname for the engine. It was called this in honor of former Stardock developer Mike Duffy who created the predecessor “Pear” which we licensed from him after he left to start his own studio. Pear is what all Stardock games from 1997 through 2003 used (Entrepreneur, The Corporate Machine, LightWeight Ninja, Galactic Civilizations I).  It was a fantastic game engine for its day but was 3D.

Kumquat is a new engine that was developed originally for Society which is the free to play MMORTS that we’ve been slowly developing for the past hundred years or something like that.  We decided to have the first game that used Kumquat be a fantasy strategy game, namely, Elemental: War of Magic. 

Now, when War of Magic was being made, we obviously had very high hopes for how it would be received. So we pictured having Elemental: War of Magic – Expansion 1…2…3.  And then you’d have Elemental: War of Magic II and so on.  But when Elemental: War of Magic was released it was very buggy and even after the bugs were largely fixed, the gameplay wasn’t what we had envisioned it  being. We had cut or altered so many features from the original design to match what Kumquat could do – at the time – that we ended up with something that few were pleased with.

But work on Kumquat has continued non-stop and so in December it was decided that rather than continue the War of Magic line we would use the opportunity to create a new fantasy strategy game in the Elemental world that would succeed War of Magic and then just give that to everyone who bought War of Magic in 2010 it for free with steep discounts for anyone who buys it before it is released. That’s where Elemental: Fallen Enchantress comes in.

BG40_AirShrineElemental: Strategy Games

The effect of this is that we’ll eventually have War of Magic, Fallen Enchantress and <Untitled third branch>.   This isn’t really very different than what we did with Galactic Civilizations II with the exception of the intention to have them be stand-alone and thus allowing the separate entities to continue to be potentially developed on their own path based on what players ask for.  If the strategy games were primarily multiplayer games, we obviously couldn’t do this because you’d be fragmenting the player base. But these are primarily single player games that happen to have (fairly crummy) multiplayer support.

One nice thing about this is that it gives us, and players, a lot more design flexibility.  Fallen Enchantress is a pretty radical departure from War of Magic. Based on what I’m seeing, I suspect most people will prefer that by far to War of Magic but only time will tell. But in any event, we will be making a v1.3 of War of Magic that will be on its own code branch.

As a game developer, I can tell you that this is pretty exciting stuff.  Consider the challenges other strategy game franchises have. Some players would have liked to see Civilization V be more along the lines of Civilization IV. Others would have preferred it to be far more complex and others would have preferred to have it streamlined. 

Elemental: RPG games

Now, as some people may recall, after War of Magic’s difficult launch, we had to re-evaluate our staffing levels and reorganize. This meant some painful layoffs back last Fall which came from people slated for the RPG title.  After War of Magic, it was recognized that the game studio was being run like a hobby and not as an engineering process like our enterprise software unit. This meant we needed to bring in full-time designers and full-time project managers onto the studio.  Thus, the second studio team, designated for the Elemental: RPG, got largely zapped. This year we will begin to reconstitute this team as we bring in a lead studio developer and some senior developers to help ensure that we don’t have another War of Magic episode.

The Mod Layer

As some people may remember, I was planning to take a sabbatical last year. Clearly that didn’t happen.  I am still planning to do this sometime early this year. With Kael and Jon Shafer here now, I am comfortable that the games unit won’t need me to intervene.  This will let me create what I’ve creatively named “Mod Layer”. The idea is to create a piece of middleware between Kumquat and future games that would allow people to make games using mostly Python.  I’ve started the planning part of this with our DesktopX lead developer so that we can use Expression Blend to create “objects”, and then manipulate them via Python and render them in Kumquat. This way, modders can easily create a wide assortment of games that are either 2D or 3D and potentially portable to (at the very least) Xbox Live Arcade and Windows Phone (though I’d like to also do iOS but Xcode is the devil still so I may ask some Stardockians to make that part for me <g>).

781,917 views 229 replies
Reply #76 Top

How curious how some people deny Stardock any possibility of making Elemental interesting and good (in TBS and/or RPG shape) yet believe that Stardock will automatically make a good next iteration of Gal Civ. Certainly some people believe in magic.

Aeon, you are wrong about the puzzling.

Reply #77 Top

It's easier to make a good space 4X game then a good fantasy 4X game. 

 

That said, Heavenfall's comment pretty much sums up my opinion- SD has two games to "redeem" themselves, though I believe for most people , FE is going to determine their opinion on Stardock.  This is why I keep saying this game HAS to deliver.  Most of my friends who I talk to who are gamers, got Elemental, and if they didn't play GCII, their opinion of SD is negative.   The only way to get them back is to make a good game.  It's not effort, it's results.   I'm not trying to sound harsh or trollish, but it is what it is.

 

I'll be honest- I'm a little nervous about it, because I know it can go either way.  That said, it's wrong to condemn and doom Stardock until FE comes out.

Reply #78 Top

Easier <> Easy but I can concede that, in theory (due to "plane" maps and no magic), Galc Civ 3 should be easier than Elemental (especially due to Elemental experience). But that doesn't mean that Starcock cannot "screw it", right? People will start reminding them of how Tactical Battles were considered for GC 3, how even Frogboy once said he would like to have some kind of Hero unit (yep) or the usual "Multiplayah!!!".

Stardock could make FE to be trash and still make, later, a legendary Gal Civ 3 that dethrones MoO 2 for good. Or it could go all the opposite way and FE be "the new MoM/AoW/Blah" and the later Gal Civ 3 be "the new Atari's ET".

Reply #79 Top

Many studios that were considered untouchable, have made games that were crap (Civ V, Total War games past Rome, etc) .  So yeah, anything is possible.  That said, if I thought EWOM was going to be your typical Stardock effort from now on, I wouldn't even be posting on these forums, I'd have ragequit already.  The fact is, I expect better from SD.  If I didn't, I wouldn't be a customer.

 

I expect GC3 to give MOO2 a serious run for it money- most of what I didn't like about GC3, what I saw in Elemental looked like it would be a good fix to those problems (which was part of the problem to me with Elemental design- it felt a little too much like SD was still in a GalCiv mindframe on some things).

 

I'm not easy to please, am I?  ^_^

Reply #80 Top

They are taking gaming business more seriously and even hiring people like Mr Paxton and Mr Shafer to help with Elemental and beyond. Mistakes may be made but I would say that at least the intentions are not to repeat EWoM's events.

Reply #81 Top

Yeah, I agree.  I was surprised myself at the aggressiveness of the moves, though it makes good sense to diversify.  A profitable games division and a profitable application division would protect Stardock from a crash in either industry.

 

It's not the intentions that count though, it's the results.

 

 

 

 

Reply #82 Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 78
Easier <> Easy but I can concede that, in theory (due to "plane" maps and no magic), Galc Civ 3 should be easier than Elemental (especially due to Elemental experience). But that doesn't mean that Starcock cannot "screw it", right? People will start reminding them of how Tactical Battles were considered for GC 3, how even Frogboy once said he would like to have some kind of Hero unit (yep) or the usual "Multiplayah!!!".

Stardock could make FE to be trash and still make, later, a legendary Gal Civ 3 that dethrones MoO 2 for good. Or it could go all the opposite way and FE be "the new MoM/AoW/Blah" and the later Gal Civ 3 be "the new Atari's ET".

I could have gone the rest of my life without a reminder of Atari's ET.  

Thanks for that.

Reply #83 Top

Quoting Alstein, reply 81
It's not the intentions that count though, it's the results.
Depends on context though. And the degree of divergence with the "expected" results.

Or would any of you feel better if Frogboy hadn't hired Kael? (I won't mention Shafer in that question due to anti Civ V zealots :P ) Or if he hadn't already funded Elemental for 2011 and 2012? Or deployed a full team for Elemental? Results are what in the end we pay for (er.. you know what I mean) but good foundations are what allow to get good results (if later developed properly XD ).

Worst case scenario for FE? Some people won't preorder from Stardock again. (a minority will never buy from Stardock again too)

Best case scenario for FE? It'll be good and still have some people totally dissappointed with it because it's not X or Y, or doesn't have Z or W.

:P

Reply #84 Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 80
They are taking gaming business more seriously and even hiring people like Mr Paxton and Mr Shafer to help with Elemental and beyond. Mistakes may be made but I would say that at least the intentions are not to repeat EWoM's events.
That's very good, except there's too much "and beyond" for now.

Reply #85 Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 83

Quoting Alstein, reply 81It's not the intentions that count though, it's the results.Depends on context though. And the degree of divergence with the "expected" results.
Or would any of you feel better if Frogboy hadn't hired Kael? (I won't mention Shafer in that question due to anti Civ V zealots ) Or if he hadn't already funded Elemental for 2011 and 2012? Or deployed a full team for Elemental? Results are what in the end we pay for (er.. you know what I mean) but good foundations are what allow to get good results (if later developed properly ).

Worst case scenario for FE? Some people won't preorder from Stardock again. (a minority will never buy from Stardock again too)

Best case scenario for FE? It'll be good and still have some people totally dissappointed with it because it's not X or Y, or doesn't have Z or W.

 

A better game= more people satisfied with it.  Brad has done all the right moves, now they just have to pay off. 

I really hope they do, and I know they can.

Reply #86 Top

I totally stand by my earlier comments and was in no way making any kind of assumptions that future iterations of Elemental will be mediocre, only that judging from what has happened thus far, there's not a lot to be hopeful about.  I appreciate the new hires and would like to see something positive stem from that, but I truly believe that this whole project has been borne from a tainted source: Brad Wardell's hubris. I used to think the man practically walked on water, and I think maybe he felt so a little bit as well.  What made him believe he could be a novelist all of a sudden?  And what made him think that the story of Elemental was more important than the game?  Strategy games are all about making your own stories.  Think about how many awesome tales came of playing GalCiv2, and how you could brag about selling giving ships to an ally and bribe them to start an intergalactic war.  The stories in GalCiv are created by the players.  It is Stardock's job to create the perfect backdrop or sandbox to play in, otherwise just make it an RPG.  A perfect example is the Collector's Edition.  I preordered that puppy way in advance and was dying to get my hands on it, only to feel uttterly crestfallen when the storybook it came with dwarfed the manual itself.  Once again, this is a strategy game!  Give me all the tips, tricks, and insights into the game.  Statistics, race, culture stats, weapons, victory conditions, etc.  I want a meaty manual that helps me play the game and make my own stories.  Who cares about the history of the universe if I can't even understand how to play the damn thing?

As far as my reasoning for "crash and burn" dev of the decade: fool me twice, shame on me.  Demigod's launch was a massive failure that caused that game many problems because the multiplayer was highly touted (and I do know about the broken street date issue, still, protect your nuts).  So, Elemental is promised to have an adequate multiplayer component and now even Brad admits it has "fairly crummy" multiplayer support still!  Add to that the fact that The Gamers Bill of Rights made it patently clear that devs should release only finished games and they've broken their own promise. 

Yeah, I'm frustrated and hurt at my favorite game dev OF ALL TIME letting me down so completely.  But c'mon, that 70 dollar Collector's Edition has been collecting dust since that frustrating day one and I still see no need to crack it open yet.  And the new fragmented game plan does not bode well for the future.  I feel my anger is justified.

Reply #87 Top

Quoting NelsMonsterX, reply 86
adequate multiplayer component and now even Brad admits it has "fairly crummy" multiplayer support still!  Add to that the fact that The Gamers Bill of Rights made it patently clear that devs should release only finished games and they've broken their own promise. 
Multiplayer would be something to not feel proud about, that's for sure. There are reasons for it but still a serious stain. And we all payed for it, even those that will never play multiplyer (even if it were to work flawlessly).

And the Gamers Bill of Rights desn't obligue a developer/publisher to release finished games, only that gamers have the right to expect them to be released finished. We could talk about Stardock not meeting those expectations though.

Reply #88 Top

Anyone notice how I'm not the one starting the internet fights and arguments any more?  I think it has to do with me getting laid on a regular basis now.  We need to get some of our internet geeks some loving, let them calm down the nerdrage and see things in a new perspective.  Maybe Brad can take you all to Vegas and you can hit up some Pros?  Come on Frogboy, buy some hookers for your forum nerds and this place might turn into a utopia!

 

p.s. The real point of this post is to just brag about me getting some.  :thumbsup:

Reply #89 Top

Quoting Lord, reply 88
p.s. The real point of this post is to just brag about me getting some. 

This is the internet so... Pics or it didn't happen!!!

 

Hmmm On the other hand... I may regret that... XD

Reply #90 Top

He admitted to being a fat geek, so your doubts are understandable. Geeks don't get laid.

Reply #91 Top

Yea, pics of her would be good, pics of me would be some kind of Cthulu mind destroying image.

Reply #93 Top

Quoting Aeon221, reply 75

C++ wouldn't be a good pick for the kind of pick-up-and-mod style that games want these days. As a separate SDK, hells yes, but not for general purpose modding. Anyway no one wants to pick through a bunch of pointers just to figure out what the heck is going on!

I did like the Lua suggestion. That's a handy dandy little language, and a damn sight more friendly than Python. Plus the grammer isn't full of unusual choices for standard operations.


I mean, even if you've never programmed a day in your life, you'll be able to puzzle it out pretty quickly:

The reason for C++ being a primary target would be so people who can program with it can create an interface for others to mod games using other langauges. While possibly not for modding Stardock's games, this would be good for the mod layer when people are building completely new games.

I object to Lua on the same grounds I object to Python. AngelScript is clearly the best choice of the three as it ignores whitespace and has strong typing.

Reply #94 Top

Quoting Xanderful, reply 44
I have to be honest and pirated your first version of Elemental, because i was scared to pay for it (dont like to pay 50 dollars for any game). I played it for an hour and did not play it again. But I kept up with the updates you posted and noticed all of the improvements and decided to pay for it in January with your 20% discount for the survey.

You should have paid full price seeing how you acquired the game when it was still selling for $50.  I guess there really is no honor among thieves.

Reply #96 Top

Quoting Werewindlefr, reply 68
I define an RPG as a game with choices which have moderate-to-extensive consequences on the plot and/or setting* (including NPCs) and its (/their) reaction towards the character you play. Character sheet is one of the places where those choices are made, especially if it's more than just choosing combat talents (see: fallout 1/2/NV's special and how it affects some of the quest outcomes and solving possibilities). But it shouldn't be limited to character sheet.

I think Warren Spector gave the best definition when he said that a role playing game is any game where player choice changes how a narrative ends or at least how it is told.  Most games -- even those that are labeled "RPG" -- have a fixed narrative that doesn't change no matter what choices the player makes.  Especially amusing are Japanese RPGs that give the illusion of choice but have other characters in the game completely ignore your input.  "Hey, you want to go rescue Uncle Bob?"  "No."  "Don't be silly, of course you do."

Reply #97 Top

Quoting Gwenio1, reply 93

I object to Lua on the same grounds I object to Python. AngelScript is clearly the best choice of the three as it ignores whitespace and has strong typing.
Python, and to a lesser extent lua, have a clear advantage here. Modders are often familiar with them. Even if they aren't, those languages are not uncommon and learning them will be useful elsewhere than when modding Elemental.

 

I mean, sure, I'd love Elemental to support OCaml, but that's not going to happen :p.

Reply #98 Top

Quoting Werewindlefr, reply 97

I object to Lua on the same grounds I object to Python. AngelScript is clearly the best choice of the three as it ignores whitespace and has strong typing.Python, and to a lesser extent lua, have a clear advantage here. Modders are often familiar with them. Even if they aren't, those languages are not uncommon and learning them will be useful elsewhere than when modding Elemental.

Given there is little to learn about writting AngelScript, it should be possible for someone to learn the entire langauge in a week or two at most even with no programming experience.

Reply #99 Top

It doesn't matter which language they use.

This is a company that couldn't get an engine with a circa 2000 level feature set working after hacking on it for what 4-5 years? They did Demigod's networking... guess which part was a massive failure?

LOLs will ensue no matter which avenue they go down.

Reply #100 Top

Quoting NoobFukaire, reply 99
They did Demigod's networking... guess which part was a massive failure?

A lot of that is because they weren't planning on the obscene number of pirates trying to dial into the system (early estimates said that only around 12% of online users were legitimate customers).