lasts 30 min I believe.

Kosturas were conterabable in most easiest way. All u need to do is scuttle planet or keep atacking.

To counter novilath i need sb + 1 upgrade so thats equiwalent od 3rd ot 4th cap. And u need it on every planet.

And now, u still loose income even while countered.

Kosturas were more psylogical weepon then actualy effective kiling weepon. To kill enymy fleet u needed 8-9 of them, needed to keep them in sicret and most people let u shoot only once. U spend equwalent of  lv5 fleet to get them and they never pay back. What they realy do is killing morale of a guy who lost its fleet.

There r few who knows it and kosturas r not effective agains them. Thats y me biggest kostura fan on ico, almost stoped to use them. There is so so many condition to use kosturas properly and there is so many way to switch them off , and yet u nerf them cause for 50 ico players 40 dont know haw to counter and  has bad memories.

Also subs nerf. Y did u nerf disstortion field range while buffed hosiko to non-micro.

All thos arguments about  ,,omg to perma jam hoshi need so manyantimatter upgrade.... lol what a bullshit. Do u leave them on auto!!?? all subs will burn their am trying to switch off 1 lonley target or trade port if left on auto. Its micro what make them strong.  Or guardians, Who leaves guardians on auto!!!.

And yet u nefr sub, and let tec players have best support cruser that dont need to micro at all!!!.

I strongly sugest u go for all. LET THE DEMOCRACY WIN. nerf the phase missile and phase traps, thats what mob want.

...


...scuttle a planet???

lol 

Yes, while we're at it let's buff skirmisher to disciple level because they're not equal!!! That's just ridiculous way of seeing balance- every unit of same class must be equal. One of things that made sins fun is diversity between races. Of course, it makes balancing hard but it's one of the coolest features of this game. Race 1 has OP unit A, weak untits B and C. Race 2 has OP unit B, weak units A and C. Race 3 has mediocre units A, B and C...

DIVERSITY

... and TEC CANNOT have good superweapon for 1 reason: they eco too fast. Vasa had good superweapon for 2 reasons: tier 4 trade ports and low efficiency of fleet per supply point. That's what vasa is about: few key abilities that help you overcome low fleet efficiency. Kostura was one of them..

Advent superweapon was trash because their battleball used to be OMGWTF OP.

 Kosturas were conterabable in most easiest way. All u need to do is scuttle planet or keep atacking.

...which makes them no different to a novalith, except they can also disable structures, be built without prerequisite research, and allows you to go behind enemy lines...nice counter!

I refuse to accept a 'counter' is to abandon the planet. That is about as silly as it comes, so if Im required to abandon a planet then we must nerf the Kosturas even more.

Abandoning as a counter is the most backwards thinking idea yet.

I agree with your first paragraph. Problem was Vasari had way more OP units than the other factions, even with low fleet efficiency factored in. Kosturas (and most of their late techs) were not as big of a deal when Vasari was under powered early game because few lasted long enough to get them. Scramble bombers/Carrier Capitals in general and phasic traps have made the Vasari early game much easier to handle, so the other factions either need a buff to their late game or the Vasari a nerf some of their perks. Since the Kostura could produce the most extreme results, it was a fair pick I think (and its still the best fleet support).

That's why I rather like the Novalith update, it allows them to get far and away the best late game economy while their fleets will long have lost their competitive edge to Advent and Vasari abilities. Now that they have a means to seriously hurt their opponents economy and not just buff their own, its possible that strategy may actually work now. As to them deploying them too fast, keep in mind Novaliths are harder to research than Kosturas, so if anything it should take longer to deploy a Novalith spam. Besides that's what this beta if for, if it turns out early Novalith spams are feasible in practice, it can be addressed before the final patch.

Now u made me mad.

I know disputing with idiont is a lost cause he will bring u to his level and beat with expirience, but i cant let such a retarded argument stay unanswered.

The fact your  inferrior mind refuse to accept something doesnt mean it dont exist. Its a same class argument as Greyfoxes " the lf\scout combo isnt an answer to assailent spamm, cause its boring and  i dont like it."

I used scuttle planet myself several times against higgy and minds, work perfectly. Once i used it against bout of them and bought enough time to win a game. Scuttle doesnt mean abandon , it mean, he cant shoot, but u own the gravity wheel. All u need to do is buy enough time fot your team to kill his military lab, or allies, cause when he made a kosturas, his team is underfeeded.

PS im not against buffing novilath. In my opinion advent superweepon should be buffed too. Super weepon, should be super. BUT IM AGAINST NERFING KOSTURAS. Im also against nerfing subs and buffing hosikos at same time.

"The fact your  inferrior mind refuse to accept something doesnt mean it dont exist."

lulz

But yea all super weapons need boosting and I have said recently that I would be ok with a kostura revert if the other two weapons were made equally powerful.

However, ill never agree that scuttling a planet is a viable strategy. While we be trollin' lets say we can scuttle caps to avoid the long painful process of seeing a fleet frozen for indefinite amounts of time by timed kostura bursts. We are gunna need to rebuild the fleet anyway, so why not free up the now worthless supply points?

I have seen people skuttle strike craft to free them from phasic traps.

just sayin.

i dont get what is so wrong about scuttling a planet to counter kosturas ?

this is as retarded an argument as when people said scouts shouldnt counter LRM cause they didnt like it

well you know what ? flak should not counter fighters because i think that is dumb..

see how stupid i sound ? now look in the mirror

Scuttling is right up there with Spawn Camping in FPS. Just because it's possible and you seen others do it does not make it write. Dirty play. Should be a bigger penalty for it so it is more discouraged.

i think building 2 capital ships is dirty play

right up there with smurfing

Just to reiterate, I think the Kostura nerf is good.

I am a bit concerned about the Novalith buff...how long does the trade disruption last?

I think the Advent Supercannon needs a bit of love too.  I think trade disruption or maybe even stealing a % of trade income would be more appropriate for the Advent cannon and give TEC something else.   Just my thoughts.

As long as that trade disrupt duration isnt too long, I believe the Novalith is pretty in line with the Kostura now (which can still freeze star bases and allow for travel to any planet in a star system). 

The Kostura can't freeze starbases.

And a comment on the world scuttling.   You don't really want to scuttle one of your core worlds, but your fleet should be on the periphery anyhow.  The economic value of a periphery world is negligible compared to the value of your fleet.

Whoops my bad.

All of the super weapons are counter-able in this way.  No planet owner = No target.  So the reality of the situation is, this isn't helpful to your argument since it's universally true for everyone.

No.  Well, yes, but no.  You 'could' waste all of that time and effort putting up a starbase on every single one of your planets with the Auxiliary Government upgrade, or...   Wait for it!!!  You could scuttle the planet!  OMG WTF LOL0RZ!!!!11!!!1111111

Actually, if you have the time and resources to be building up all of those starbases and upgrades, why haven't you actually, oh I don't know, used some strategy and fired a Kostura shot at the planet with the Novalith and jumped in a small fleet to destroy it?  Just a suggestion, you seem to be needing some advice.  I mean, come on, I know to do that and I never play Vasari outside of testing mods...

So the fact that your cannon shot used to not only stun structures and do the same thing, it stunned ships, and allowed you to jump in freely and have your way with the gravity well...  In your mind, that's perfectly okay when the others can't do anything even remotely close to that...  Time to take off the Vasari glasses and look at this thing objectively.

The Deliverance Engine just plain sucks.  The Novalith's only advantage...  Well, let's face it, if the game has been going on long enough for a TEC player to not only spend the time and resources to build that 8th military research station and do the Novalith research, which, I'll inform you, is the ONLY reason to build that 8th military lab, and build the Novalith...  It's pretty much useless at that point because all it would do is reduce a planet's population by 40%...  Big deal.  Three consecutive shots and they lose the planet...  Whoopie...  The planet doesn't help anyone at later stages, and like you've already openly admitted, a starbase has the means to block it's effects making it useless.  Does the TEC or Advent starbase prevent you from jumping into their gravity well?  No.  Does anything in the TEC or Advent arsenal prevent the Kostura from stunning and damaging everything in the well?  No.  The fact is, if the only way to prevent it's use is by abandoning the planet, which is the lamest piece of garbage strategy I've ever heard of, then you've got yourself a pretty good weapon.  Far better then the other two...  Even with it no longer stunning and damaging fleets it's still impossible to block it.  Suck it up you little fanboy.  You still have the best super weapon, it's just not insanely superior anymore.

Wait, what?!?  Psychological warfare over being a killing weapon?  This game is about fleets, your super weapon is the only one that damages fleets and you get it faster then the other two races and yours is not a killing weapon?  You need to go back to strategy school my friend because you clearly don't have any idea of what you're talking about.  Most people only let you shoot them once because they know the damage that can be done to themselves if they leave the Kosturas unchecked.  That's why they go after them when the notice goes out that they're being built.  You're right, it is psychological, but with a good reason.  They not only stunned everything in the well, but they open a gate for you to jump right in behind it.  That's a scary thing for any player going against a Vasari and all the reason anyone needs to have to make Kostura's their primary target.

Let's remove your blinders again.  This game is about fleets, more or less.  If you lost your entire fleet, and pretty much the game at that point because someone jumped in their entire fleet and laid waste to your empire, wouldn't you make damned sure they couldn't do it again the next time you played?  Of course you would.

#1 The planet has to be enemy owned.  This is a universal condition because it's true for all of them.  No owner = no target.
#2 Stun and destroy an opponent's fleet.  Sure, you need 8 or 9 of them, but they can't prevent this from happening if you catch them not paying attention to you.
#3 Stun and destroy their structures. Again, 8 or 9 of them, but it can't be prevented.
#4 Phase gate.  You can jump a fleet in behind the shot bypassing their fleets and defenses at the choke points.  Cannot be prevented or countered.
Grand total, 3 uses, 3 devastating non preventable, non counterable effects.

Let's review the other two now.  Deliverance Engine.
#1 Has to target Enemy or allied planet.  No owner = no target.
#2 Let's you spy on an opponent's planet.  Useless at later stages because it really just doesn't matter by then.
#3 Buffs your fleet.  Useless again at later stages because you need that buff to stay on par with the other two.
#4 Culture Spam.  Countered by capital ships and broadcast centers.
Grand total, 3 uses, one is useless, one is easily countered, and the last doesn't really do much for your fleet.

The Novalith
#1 Planet must be enemy owned.  No owner = no target.
#2 Reduce planet population, thus reducing weak tax income.  Easily countered by trade ports.
#3 Destroy a planet's population on a third consecutive shot.  Side effect: You can't recolonize for 30 minutes making the gravity well useless during that time.  Negated by a starbase with Auxiliary Government.
Grand total, 2 uses, both can be prevented and countered.

So looking at it like this, the only super weapon worth having is the Kostura.  Now let's account for the changes.
Well that's easy, Advent, nothing changed.  Vasari, lost the use of ship killing.  TEC gained trade income damaging.
So now they stack up like this:
Advent: Still sucks.
Vasari: Still stuns and damages structures, still can't be prevented.  Still opens a gate up, still can't be countered.  Still 2 great uses. Still a massive psychological weapon.
TEC: Still wipes out a planet's population.  Still easily countered.  Now effects trade as well as tax income.  Kind of makes this useful to use now.  Does not damage any structures, so once the effect goes away, you're back in business.

The Hoshiko is still a micro managed unit if you want to use them effectively.  You still have to pick one role or the other for it.  Is it a healer, or is it an attacker?  Then you go from there.  Yes it can change roles, and yes it can fire it's drones in all directions, but just look at it.  It has 6 launch tubes all facing different ways...  Why should it have to face forward?    I'm really getting the hint that you only play as the Vasari and none of the other races.  That's a pretty good clue as to how good they actually are.  Hell, Oreo® plays as the Vasari and can do some serious damage and he's not exactly someone I point to as the model of tactical or strategic genius...  That's all the proof I need...

Cry cry whine whine cry...  Sob sob...  So this whole little rant of yours is for what?  To prove you're a little fanboy who's upset his toys got some padding put on them?  To show your displeasure about having to actually work a little harder now?  Try playing the game as Advent for a while.

Honestly, the only one here that sounds foolish is you and you're getting mad because the rest of us think that giving up a planet as a counter is not 'good strategy'?  We shouldn't have to give up planets.  Okay, you build a Kostura, to combat you we give up every single one of our planets.  Whoops...  How come we lost?  Oh that's right!  We don't have any planets!  DUH!  The more we give up, the less you have to target, the easier it is for you to jump in and get a military victory!  That's why that strategy is so damned retarded.....  Who are you trying to convince?  Someone who's never played before?  That's about the only chance you have of making someone think that giving up their planets is a good thing.

^ dam straight.

blind troll is blind. 

The kostura stun/destry thing can/could be prevented.  Thats why we all love our akkans.

Yea but only late game TEC. Advent are already pretty screwed and this made it even worse.

lol I just realised...

"Kosturas were conterabable in most easiest way. All u need to do is scuttle planet...'

So... basically using this strategy every time makes the Kostura EXACTLY like a Novalith in the fact that both force you to LOSE THE PLANET except the Kostura also stuns every ship and structure in the grav well.

And a starbase would not 'protect' you from this kostura countering strategy because you can scuttle a world with a starbase present....
 
roflmao 

Not to interject myself too much in the rampant flaming, but I just want to clarify on the Kostura "scuttling" defense:  the situation where this is useful is when the Vasari player is running you ragged with 5-6 Kosturas trying to whack-a-mole your fleet to death so you can't mass it to fight.  The Vasari goal is to kill, split up, or seriously damage your fleet at which point the Vasari fleet will sally forth from a fortified world to finish the job.  In this situation, you could scuttle an insignificant world on your border to allow your fleet a safe place to park and gather strength.  It is not an "optimal" situation, and obviously the Vasari play will probably go back to sterilizing space around your core worlds if he can't shoot your fleet.

Now if the Vasari player has a bigger fleet, bigger econ, and Kosturas shooting at you willy nilly, you are most likely already dead.  However, if YOU are bigger than the Vasari, you can afford to lose a small world to protect your fleet until you are ready to go on the offensive.  Scuttling a border world can give you a chance in this situation where the Vasari rushed Kosturas but you actually have the military and economic might to beat him down.

Again, I actually support the Kostura nerf.  I just think the Advent cannon needs sweet lovin' too.

I now return you to your normal broadcasting.

How come the ai Kortul Devastator never uses Power Surge? its antimatter pool always stays full...