Vallu751 Vallu751

The Grand Demandobot AI Thread

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The Grand Demandobot AI Thread

from Elemental Forums

We are the Demandobots  :cylon:  https://forums.elementalgame.com/404518/page/1/#2876891

It is our nature to relentlessly demand AI improvements.

Our programming has the following rules:

1. We demand specific improvements. Those making vague demands are not true demandobots! Elaborate to prove your worth!

2. We provide savegames by dropbox or similar technology to offer others a chance to share in the mockery of the puny AI's feeble attempts at gameplay. (And to help the devs)

3. We separate issues and requests into "Community confirmed", "Needs confirmation" and "Too vague, please elaborate".

4. Our programming is quite moddable, please make improvement suggestions if you feel like it.

And finally, Rule zero: We cheer AI improvements mightily.

 

STRATEGIC AI

Top priority:

Champion AI concidered lacking because of the following two issues.

HeavenFall, Vandenburg, Lord Xia, nitey47, AlLanMandragoran: AI won't equip new items. If they hire champions, they will never have better equipment than what they start with.

  • Apparently somewhat improved with 1.19n?

Stuie, Lord Xia: AI does not take stat upgrades at level-up https://forums.elementalgame.com/404479

AlLanMandragoran: AI gets "pop-locked" and doesn't do anything for many turns. https://forums.elementalgame.com/407995

Community confirmed:

AlLanMandragoran: Most recent strategic AI analysis thread: https://forums.elementalgame.com/407995

AlLanMandragoran: AI leaves settlements undefended. Also, has unused pioneers and is building more in the same location. https://forums.elementalgame.com/408391

AlLanMandragoran: AI building cities on top of resources. https://forums.elementalgame.com/408401

Vandenburg, nitey: Rushing military (techs) too powerful https://forums.elementalgame.com/403879/page/9/#2877482

Lord Xia: AI could group better, instead of two groups of 4 units coming after a city, and both failing, one group of 8 would have succeeded

Sethai: Teleport allows human players to concentrate their forces better than an AI. AI doesn't build groups or archers. their huge armies of individuals are destroyed by area spells. https://forums.elementalgame.com/407978/page/1/#2927950

Yosarian2:  AI will consistantly declare war on me, and then completly ignore me and do nothing for dozens of turns. The AI just needs to learn to properly launch a single large attack on nearby cities it's at war with. https://forums.elementalgame.com/407978/get;2928071

Yosarian2: I often conquer cities that have the wrong buildings (for example, it'll build the buildings that give a % bonus to metal production in cities that have no metal production.) https://forums.elementalgame.com/407978/get;2928071

impinc, Tydorius: Poor maneuvering. AI always moves units in the same turn order every time.  AI never uses the pass turn to just stand still, even if using its turns moves it backwards. https://forums.elementalgame.com/404507

  • Partial fix suggestion by Tydorius: Allow units to move through other units as long as the other side is clear.

HeavenFall, Lord Xia: AI uses mounts very, very rarely

 

TheProgress, kaitro AI does not defend improvement tiles.: The AI continues to rebuild improvements whilst enemies are right next to the improvement tile. https://forums.elementalgame.com/404551

TheProgress: The AI retreats (on the strategic map) when it has superiority in numbers and strength. Link to saves: http://filebin.ca/kpaeyt/Saves.zip

  • Related to: TheProgress: strategic AI commands an empire that has a power rating 5x higher than that of my own - they declare war on me - 100 turns later, I have yet to even see a single attack made by them.

Blackmantle_: AI gives obscene amounts of Gildar for diplomatic capital during diplomatic negotiations (treaties part of the negotation-table) while giving the diplomatic capital away for cheap when bartering for goods. The richer the AI is, the worse the bug

HeavenFall, Sythion: AI attacks a city with 400 combat rating worth of units in, with an army that has 80 combat rating. AI  tactics about when and where to fight are poor.

Blackmantle_, Sythion: AI seems to undervalue hiring heroes. Ridiculous AI may have thousands of gildar, but there are still heroes available in AI territory or just near it. AI needs to focus on champions early game, since they are much easier to purchase and buff up (only need gold)

nitey47, vallu751: Combat rating needs improvement. Is defensive armor given enough weight? Are magical effects values? Spellcasters?

  • Example: force of 5 spiders with combat rating 39 attacked with three lower end units (Boar spear, some padded armor) combat rating 29. Overwhelming victory. 
  • Another game, 5 spiders vs sovereign and 4 other units. Sov stack had all values - especially defense - higher, but combat ratings were the same. Spiders were barely able to scratch.

nitey47, HeavenFall: AI creates too many monuments. 8 or 9 in a city, each taking 10 pop.

nitey47: AI build options could be better in general. Currently too many monuments and labor pits. Too few Studies and Schools.

Werewindlefr: AI does not build units with a shield and one handed weapon.

citywolfdreams: AI should keep low level heroes with fighting stacks, hanging out back to gain exp.

 

Needs confirmation:

EternalRequiem: AI doesn't cut down forests to make room for cities.

Vandenburg: AI doesn't phase out obsoleted units with better ones

Blackmantle_: AI gives more for a Hero on bartering than demanding for that same hero. Might be tied to recruit cost of the player as well as the AI and relations. So beeing a Bard with a high charisma might help to reproduce. The richer the AI is, the worse that bug

nitey: AI might do better against rushing if it researched an offensive spell right away

nitey: AI units should have better defense in the beginning, even normal peasants

Blackmantle_: AI doesn't seem able to keep watch of its heroes. They seem to die rather fast despite high difficulty HP bonuses

seanw3: I demand that the AI can logically research late game technologies (the ones that are infinite). I have not noticed a good use of this by the AI.

seanw3: I demand that the AI can cast spells. Even in 1.19 they seem to totally avoid magic.

seanw3: I demand that the AI can properly see that he is being beaten by my invincible armies and sign a peace treaty without demanding insane amounts of gold. Why is the winner supposed to pay for peace?

seanw3: I demand that the AI can raze a city if it is surrounded by too many units.

seanw3: I demand that the AI can ask me for help if it is losing a war and we are the same faction.

nitey47: AI does not use Imbue Hero, Arcane Weapon, Stone Skin, Regenerate or Heal on either their heroes or their sovereign. https://forums.elementalgame.com/404541/page/1/#2879022

nitey47: AI doesn't build archers after archery was moved up in tech tree.

seanw3: AI at a disadvantage at higher tech levels, doesn't seem to utilize them well

  • vallu751: Could this be related to the AI spending their materials in lower end stuff and creating a resource bottleneck? Or are they just not programmed to utilize the better stuff well?

Savoy3:  AI is not trying to trade with others to get for example metals. https://forums.elementalgame.com/408864

 

Too vague, please elaborate:

Vandenburg from demandobot thread: AI doesn't factor it in deciding for war (champion equipment or obsolete units? Both?)

 

TACTICAL AI

Community confirmed:

TheProgress, Sythion:  The tactical AI will focus all units on attacking a single enemy unit until the battle has ended regardless of how the enemy changes position or attacks. https://forums.elementalgame.com/404639

vallu751, Sythion: AI rushes to attack without considering who gets to strike first. Easy to exploit for a great advantage.

citywolfdreams: List of AI improvement suggestions in thread https://forums.elementalgame.com/405229

  • "Do we have more artillery?" - Ranged combat instead of charge if AI has better ranged strength
  • "What dangerous units does the enemy have and how can I best respond?" - Intelligent target picking
  • "Do I have regenerating creatures?" - Rotating units to take advantage of regen

 

NOTED IMPROVEMENTS

Fixes in 1.19:

nitey47: 1.19 beta: AI creating better units

Fixed by 1.19a that corrected a 1.19 problem with AI XML Tag usage:

Vandenburg, AlLanMandragoran: AI doesn't expand problem.

Trojasmic: How to beat 6 ridiculous AIs with saves and screenshots: https://forums.elementalgame.com/404770

Fixes in 1.19a:

AI: Fixed an issue with the sovereign not going out to pickup goodie huts.

Fixes in 1.19c:

Helsturm & others: 1.19b AI sovereign stationed near town, not inside. https://forums.elementalgame.com/405133

AlLanMandragoran: Faction AI XML tags for factions other than Umber.

Fixes in 1.19d:

Patch notes: AI suicidal tendencies reduced

 

:cylon:

faq support
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Reply #76 from Elemental Forums Top

Noticed something the AI doesn't do, and that's cut down forests near it's settlements to make room for expanding. When the AI doesn't cut forests down it hampers it's ability to expand it's settlements to their full potential. If said settlement is surrounded on all sides by forests this severely hampers their ability to expand because they can't build on anymore tiles once they run out of space.

Reply #77 from Elemental Forums Top

Good one, EternalRequiem. That shouldn't be too difficult to fix. I added it to "needs confirmation" since I haven't played lately myself and can't verify.

Fences - Organize your desktop icons today!
Reply #78 from Elemental Forums Top

Updated a 1.20 analysis here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/407995

Capitar, Gilden, and Pariden (to a lesser extent) are still hosed. Pop locked at turn 36 consistently. Uggh.

Reply #79 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm posting this here as well since it is AI related to spouses:

OP here reply# 4: https://forums.elementalgame.com/407743

Brad/Darek - I recommend the following for spouses:

  • They are unmoddable, correct?
  • Can they be changed to be moddable?
  • Spouses do not wander and they are not max geared throughout the game - it appears they get some token gear waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beneath existing tech levels of the player which means they're never a challenge
  • All of this leaves them as baby factories only - which is lame, their defense of the capital is horrible. If they were tougher it would help counter early game rushing like I documented above.
  • From a design standpoint can you please treat them as a moddable guardian unit of the capital city? What I mean is, can they defend the capital by being geared appropriately based on difficulty level (i.e. if higher difficulty they have better gear)? If not hardcoded, allow the mod community to mod the units to consider doing something with these units?
  • A human player of an AI faction would gear the sovs, spouses, and champions especially considering the resource buffs they get on harder difficulty levels.

The Distinct Factions mod I'm testing would be even better (it's already awesome) if Impinc/Kenata could mod those units and add custom gear and stuff to the spouses. I'd love to see enemy capitals be much harder to conquer early game. In GalCivII the player could not rush an enemy homeworld because of 1. distance 2. techs needed to actually invade a planet. We need something like that in this game. Just my opinion of course.

Thanks.

Reply #80 from Elemental Forums Top

god I can't stress enough the need for the AI to clear forests, they are really hampered by them.