rebelito

And you decide to hire the guy that ruined the 20-year old Civilization franchise???

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And you decide to hire the guy that ruined the 20-year old Civilization franchise???

from Elemental Forums

Dear FrogBoy,

I have owned most of your titles since GalCiv1. I enjoyed your creations thoroughly. Now, I was about to buy Elemental after reading how much better it became with patch 1.1. I wanted to buy Elemental because the lead designer of Civilization 5 ruined my civ experience after 20 years of loyal support.

Not anymore. I will not buy any other game that this person touches. I know of many that were thinking along the same lines, and were about to put money into Elemental to run away from the monster that this "lead designer" created and that is not true to the succesful principles that made Civilization the best franchise ever.

With this move, I think you lost a huge amount of potential sales that were about to happen, Brad. I'm sorry. Good luck, you will need it now.

 

Regards,

elemental
790,288 views 217 replies
Reply #176 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Istari, reply 163
Jon Shafer is the devil. No! He is the devil's more sinister grandmother, who taught the devil everything he knows. For those who might argue otherwise, here is a short list of bad things about Jon Shafer:


If it weren't for Jon Shafer, Global Warming would be a lovely term about fairer weather.
Chuck Norris hates Jon Shafer.
Jon Shafer invented usary.
George Lucas was threatened by Jon Shafer on pain of anal rape, to write Gungans and Jar Jar Binks into Star Wars.
Jon Shafer invented ball cancer.
FOX News' main fact checker and editor is Jon Shafer.
Jon Shafer is not good with spatial relations.
Toe-stubbing was invented by Jon Shafer.
Jon Shafer has been tested on animals.
Jon Shafer has 10 personalities, each one identical to the other, but with different facial hair.
Only 2 out of 10 Jon Shafers recommend Jon Shafer.
Jon Shafer is called Jon Shafer, a term made unpopular, offensive and sexually dysfunctional by Jon Shafer.
When Jon Shafer reads this list, a tear falls from one eye at the pride in his achievements.

 

For more sound facts about Jon Shafer, just PM me.

 

"Chuck Norris hates Jon Shafer."

 

That's it right there. If the God of Bumper Chrome Sucking hates Shafer, then Shafer has to be evil incarnate with all the holiday trimmings. There is no more need for discussion, this subject is now closed.

Reply #177 from Elemental Forums Top

We need Bill Roper workling on elemental.

Im sure theres some killer concepts like they used in Hellate London.

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Reply #178 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Vladesch, reply 177

We need Bill Roper workling on elemental.

Im sure theres some killer concepts like they used in Hellate London.

Let's go for the Quadri-fecta, and hire former Everquest devs while we're at it. :P

Reply #179 from Elemental Forums Top

And the stupid continues on and on...

Reply #180 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Rune_74, reply 179
And the stupid continues on and on...

 

...and who are you again?

Reply #181 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting the_Monk, reply 180



Quoting Rune_74,
reply 179
And the stupid continues on and on...



 

...and who are you again?

Not you thank god.

Reply #182 from Stardock Forums Top

I am just curious, if you can't blame the people who worked on a game, and you can't blame the publisher who publishes a game, who exactly can  should you blame for a bad game?

I don't think one person is responsible for Civ V's current status amongst many strategy fans anymore than I think only one person is responsible for Elemental's disastrous release. I am beginning to wonder though where exactly blame can be assigned. Hey when it hits the fan, blame may not be productive, probably counterprodutcitve but that doesn't meaneveryone involved gets to walk away blameless.

+1 Loading…
Reply #183 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Rune_74, reply 181



Quoting the_Monk,
reply 180



Quoting Rune_74,
reply 179
And the stupid continues on and on...



 

...and who are you again?



Not you thank god.

 

I haven't always just been a troll like you you know......I used to be a very helpful poster at one time......of course when my help isn't needed I tend to resort to trolling.....what's your excuse?    hehe

Reply #184 from Elemental Forums Top

I am just curious, if you can't blame the people who worked on a game, and you can't blame the publisher who publishes a game, who exactly can  should you blame for a bad game?

You blame all the "internet idiots" who criticize it.  That's the trend I'm noticing.

Reply #185 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting tetleytea, reply 185

I am just curious, if you can't blame the people who worked on a game, and you can't blame the publisher who publishes a game, who exactly can  should you blame for a bad game?
You blame all the "internet idiots" who criticize it.  That's the trend I'm noticing.

ya they should all just go back to playing civ IV..and MoM since alls they wanted was civ 4.5 and MOM 2.0  :rolleyes:

 

(sorry couldn't help myself) :blush:

Reply #186 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting tetleytea, reply 185

I am just curious, if you can't blame the people who worked on a game, and you can't blame the publisher who publishes a game, who exactly can  should you blame for a bad game?
You blame all the "internet idiots" who criticize it.  That's the trend I'm noticing.

 

You blame Nesrie and tetleytea for acting overly melodramitic and being disingenuous in order so they could bash their preconceived nemesis. The quesrtion's been answered and you two, among a few others, are carrying on like beauty queens who think they were unfairly stiffed the crown.

 

 

Reply #187 from Elemental Forums Top

The problem many game seres run in to is the devlopers thinks thay need to reinvent the game each time. if your releeseing games back to back you do need to but if you let a few years pass between games  This is not the case a weel rolls becuse it is round, Making a octogon weel to be "new" leads to bad results.

If fraxis had just made CiV III with 2010 grafixs. It would have been a allaround great hit. But insteed thay had to make the game new and improved. I remaber when I saw a civlization game for consoles at e4 all. I figured that the Civ seres was in trobbel. becuase that game was just silliy.  Has a Civ player I had exspectations of what a Civ game is and that game did not meet those exspectations. Some one who would like what that game offers probbly stayed away from it becuse thay thought is was going to be a Civ game. So if your going to make a difrent game give it a diffrent name and let the game stand on its owen marrits.

Reply #188 from Elemental Forums Top

The quesrtion's been answered and you two, among a few others, are carrying on like beauty queens who think they were unfairly stiffed the crown.

Dude, you are quite mistaken.   I never even bought Civ V nor Elemental.   How can I be stiffed out of something I never even bought?

Reply #189 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting the_Monk, reply 184



 

I haven't always just been a troll like you you know......I used to be a very helpful poster at one time......of course when my help isn't needed I tend to resort to trolling.....what's your excuse?    hehe

I just think these threads are stupid.  They have nothing to do with anything other then some thread for people needing to get there little hissy fits.

Reply #190 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Rune_74, reply 190
I just think these threads are stupid.  They have nothing to do with anything other then some thread for people needing to get there little hissy fits.

 

That is essentially all this thread is about.

Reply #192 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Nesrie, reply 183
I am just curious, if you can't blame the people who worked on a game, and you can't blame the publisher who publishes a game, who exactly can  should you blame for a bad game?

Anthropogenic Global Warming. Or the fat kid that never gets picked for the dodgeball team.

Reply #193 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Nesrie, reply 183
I am just curious, if you can't blame the people who worked on a game, and you can't blame the publisher who publishes a game, who exactly can  should you blame for a bad game?

I don't think one person is responsible for Civ V's current status amongst many strategy fans anymore than I think only one person is responsible for Elemental's disastrous release. I am beginning to wonder though where exactly blame can be assigned. Hey when it hits the fan, blame may not be productive, probably counterprodutcitve but that doesn't meaneveryone involved gets to walk away blameless.

 

Well. First off, you seem to have a major misunderstanding. Firaxis is not a publisher; It is a developer. You have the actual people working on the game (programmers, designers, etc; Jon), the company they work for directly (the developer, Firaxis), and the publisher (2K).

 

Frogboy said you shouldn't blame Jon or Firaxis. Hmm, I wonder who that would leave....

 

Whether it's true or not we can't know, as we don't have all the info, but that is certainly what his post seems to imply. Same goes for Jon's stated reasons for leaving Firaxis: "Freedom to make the kind of game he wants to."

Reply #194 from Elemental Forums Top

I think it's intriguing how putting that many repetitions of the same phrase causes it to cease becoming words and instead an interesting visual pattern.

Reply #195 from Elemental Forums Top

I would agree, except for the interesting part...

Reply #197 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting the_Monk, reply 175



Quoting Valkrionn,
reply 122


 Of course some blame goes to everyone involved. My point is that attributing the lion's share of the blame to people who more than likely had very little to do with the issues is ridiculous. And saying that he should have left with a partially completed game... No, that really would be worth blaming him for. Instead, he did his utmost best in order to release the game in the best state he could, under whatever restrictions he was subject to.




 

That's what "lead" means.  It means you accept fully all responsibility for a project's success and/or failure.  If you ("the Lead") aren't comfortable with that or with the direction certain project-compromises are taking you then you have the option of doing the RESPONSIBLE thing which is to leave.  I have in my line of work worn a few different hats at times as well and have been project-lead more times than I care to remember.  There were also cases where I refused to be "lead" and others yet where I dumped the role once the "compromises" made it impossible for me to remain responsible to the project in question.  Everyone always has a choice.  That is my only point.  Anyone accepting the role of project-lead and then not fully accepting the failures (if there are any) that come up is simply ducking responsiblity.

Case in point.  Stardock released Elemental unfinished.  Plain and simple (and yes I know the myriad of threads which have beaten this topic to death.....threads I read but stayed silent about because I've always had the utmost respect for Brad and co.).  However......and this is a big however.......I lost some of that respect for Brad when he kept dancing around the point of whether or not he actually broke a promise made in the GBOR.  Sorry brad, but you should have simply said "YES" I did break my own GBOR a long long time ago......all the dancing around the bush made me lose faith in your "promises".  A simple IMMEDIATE admission to that fact would have gone a long way in retaining some goodwill with those of us who aren't just simple mindless fanboi-material.

Just sayin.....

 

 

E-X-A-C-T-L-Y.

I am amazed about how many seem to adore the lack of responsibility of some people. I was Project Leader in different industries many times, in more than one country, and an honest and professional Leader knows what to do when his or her vision of the product is being ignored/changed/trumped by the "suits". When a leader compromises his or her own vision, as it is being implied here by some, and continues in the position, doubts about honesty and professionality may be risen. Serious doubts.

Time will tell.

Reply #198 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting rebelito, reply 198



Quoting the_Monk,
reply 175



Quoting Valkrionn,
reply 122


 Of course some blame goes to everyone involved. My point is that attributing the lion's share of the blame to people who more than likely had very little to do with the issues is ridiculous. And saying that he should have left with a partially completed game... No, that really would be worth blaming him for. Instead, he did his utmost best in order to release the game in the best state he could, under whatever restrictions he was subject to.




 

That's what "lead" means.  It means you accept fully all responsibility for a project's success and/or failure.  If you ("the Lead") aren't comfortable with that or with the direction certain project-compromises are taking you then you have the option of doing the RESPONSIBLE thing which is to leave.  I have in my line of work worn a few different hats at times as well and have been project-lead more times than I care to remember.  There were also cases where I refused to be "lead" and others yet where I dumped the role once the "compromises" made it impossible for me to remain responsible to the project in question.  Everyone always has a choice.  That is my only point.  Anyone accepting the role of project-lead and then not fully accepting the failures (if there are any) that come up is simply ducking responsiblity.

Case in point.  Stardock released Elemental unfinished.  Plain and simple (and yes I know the myriad of threads which have beaten this topic to death.....threads I read but stayed silent about because I've always had the utmost respect for Brad and co.).  However......and this is a big however.......I lost some of that respect for Brad when he kept dancing around the point of whether or not he actually broke a promise made in the GBOR.  Sorry brad, but you should have simply said "YES" I did break my own GBOR a long long time ago......all the dancing around the bush made me lose faith in your "promises".  A simple IMMEDIATE admission to that fact would have gone a long way in retaining some goodwill with those of us who aren't just simple mindless fanboi-material.

Just sayin.....

 



 

E-X-A-C-T-L-Y.

I am amazed about how many seem to adore the lack of responsibility of some people. I was Project Leader in different industries many times, in more than one country, and an honest and professional Leader knows what to do when his or her vision of the product is being ignored/changed/trumped by the "suits". When a leader compromises his or her own vision, as it is being implied here by some, and continues in the position, doubts about honesty and professionality may be risen. Serious doubts.

Time will tell.

 

You sir, are a hero.

Reply #200 from Stardock Forums Top

I think you meant to say Y-O-U S-I-R A-R-E A H-E-R-O