OK, if you were planning to remove Spell lists from the Tech Tree, how would you implement them?

All of these are possible, except the master spell list. Don't think just because it says tech in the modifier that it's a tech. If the player never sees the tech, then it isn't a tech. For example, I have a faction that gains free access to a spellbook through a tech. The player never sees the tech, he only gets the book.

But, honestly, putting the spell books in "arcane research" instead of tech research makes the most sense I've ever heard.

Here's an idea. What if you cast a spell to unlock a new spellbook? I don't know if spells can unlock new techs->spellbooks, but it would certainly be worth a test. Then you'd have to spend arcane research on the new book, then cast a spell to "bind" it or whatever.

Sounds similar to what I was thinking.  Yeah, casting a spell one time to 'unlock' a spell list might just work...

OK, I've done the following:

1) Created a new spell list (CoreSpells_Tomes)

2) Created a new spell to learn (KnowledgeMobility).

3) Successfully learned KnowledgeMobility via the Spellbook interface

4) Cast KnowledgeMobility.

Isn't working so far, but...

Edit: I saw my mistake!  I copied something off of the forums here, and forgot to remove the line #'s... silly me!

Result: Success!!!!

I have successfully 'learned' the Mobility Spell list using this method!

Now if I could only figure out how to remove the KnowledgeMobility spell from the spellbook interface once it is cast, and the list is learned...

Nice job! Speaking of books, is it possible to require a caster to carry an item (a book) to cast a spell? So a sovereign or hero would have to carry the 'book of fire' to be able to cast fire spells? Just wondering

Yeah, that is no problem. Although the Sov will ignore the limit, unless you change the elementaldef.

OK, I applied the tag from the Titan's spell (the one that says     <OneCastPerBattle>1</OneCastPerBattle>.  That is supposed to only allow a spell to be cast once.  I'm still able to lose mana points from casting it multiple times though (set cost at 1), plus the 'spell' isn't disappearing once I cast it...

Edit: I tried changing the variable to OneCastPerGame.  No difference...still subtracts mana every time I cast the spell.  I could set the casting cost to 0, but it'd still be there to cast...

For cleanliness purposes, I'd absolutely love to have this spell disappear once cast, or be bumped to the end of the list so that more useful spells appeared first at least.  Since it's a strategic spell, though, and those appear first...

One other idea is to have the 'spell list research' grant the first spell on the list upon completion (as far as the pictures are concerned).  Casting of said spell the first time would 'grant' the list along with the effect, with subsequent castings 'granting' a list you already have (the interface ignores this).  My only issue with this is that I'd like the extra step to get that first spell, although that may not be a big deal...

I could always create a 'Cantrip' that goes along with the list.  Example: A L1 Combat Strategic spell that adds +1 to the Sovereign's attack for a couple of turns at no maintenance cost.  Note that Arcane Weaponry adds +5 for 1 mana, with a 1 mana per turn maintenance cost.

That being said, I can certainly release this if there is interest.

Remove the "books" and incorporate a research queue similar to MoM. If an actual "book" is found (quest or NPC bringing it to you), it can give you spells for free and speed up the research process.

Have only Channelers stationed in a mage tower earn research points. That Channeler can be your Sovereign or an Imbued NPC Wizard or Loremaster. Keep the trait that grants Sovereigns research points where ever they are.

What happens if you put negative cooldown?

<cooldown>-1</cooldown>

You are a sic, sic man Heavenfall!  Glad you are here to promote thinking outside the box!

Seriously, though, that looks interesting.  Trying now!

Edit: Umm, Success? Sorta...

The Cooldown time of 1294967295 looks kinda funky but that does gray out the Combat Spells icon at least!

Actually it was Kenata who suggested it to me for tactical spells, a long time ago. I think.

Kenata deserves thanks as well, then.

I'm kinda liking my 'weak training spell' idea.  Tinkering with that now. 

Other than bumping the Int requirement through the roof, is there a 'Sovereign Only' tag for spells? No sense cluttering the Champion spell cues if I don't need to...

Also, where is this spell list?

<StartingSpellbook>BasicSpellbook</StartingSpellbook>

I've been looking for it.

I believe that is merely a code reference to the book of whatever faction you are leading.

Next question.  I'm looking for a check tag (similar to prereq) that will not allow a list to appear if you already have it.  I just restored Mobility to my Sov, and I'm still able to learn Mobility again via my 'hack'.

So, something like

<Prereq>

<Type>Tech</Type>

<Attribute>No_MobilitySpellBook</Attribute>

</Prereq>

I'm looking at the Condition tag as well.  Not sure if that's the way to go instead:

            <PrereqConditionDef InternalName="No_MobilitySpellbook">
                <Description>No Mobility Spellbook</Description>
                <Class>Success</Class>
                <Type>CheckForTech</Type>
                <TextData>MobilitySpellBook</TextData>
                <NumericData>0</NumericData>
            </PrereqConditionDef>

You get the idea.  How to do this... anyone know?

If this doesn't work, I'm thinking instead of 'purchasing' 25 Arcane knowledge points for 5 Sov Points, instead of selecting the lists directly... you'd then choose the lists on your first turn ingame. 

Or, I could make my KnowledgeMobility spell Available for Sovereign Creation for 5 points... trying this now... still want to know how to do the above though!

I don't think that's possible, at least nothing comes to mind.

I would suggest you use the system already in place, ie the "design custom sovereign" editor. If I am not mistaken, you can prevent a user from having two particular spellbooks in that editor by giving them the same icon.

Thanks Heavenfall!

I've already tried <Is Available for Sovereign Customization> to get the 'Spell' (the one that grants the Tech) to appear in Sovereign creation.  Unfortunately, no dice.

Currently, I'm debating methods to remove spell list choice from Sov creation entirely, but compensating by allowing Players to choose spells (and spell lists) right out of the gate. The way I have this set up now, though, there is still a 'subspell' you learn along with the list, so you still get a small benefit from researching the spell (you can't learn the cantrip otherwise).  So leaving the four lists in Sov Creation is certainly not a problem.  I just don't like the 'less bang for the buck' idea without a balancer in place.

Bracers of Mobility Learning sound kinda cheezy though...

I briefly thought about tackling the interface files, but I don't have the necessary program, and looking over other modders' efforts, it's not simply drop files into Mod folder and Voila.  Plus, if these files aren't done the right way they can break your Elemental (especially if you forgot to back up the existing ones), so not a good idea.  I'll leave this to the professionals.

It sounds like removing spells from techs has some definite interest though, so maybe eventually Stardock will do this for us.  In the meantime, I'm still plugging away at this.  It's become more of a top down 'redesign' though.  Specifically: weapons tech advancement changing, plus my Spell Lists learning function, plus reorganization of the tech tree, plus a tweak of weapons and armor, not to mention fixing this so that most of the ingame units drawing off of the corestats.xml file.  The last one allows players who want to experiment with higher or lower attack/defense/hp/etc. values the opportunity to do so.

I was designing buildings earlier...