He posted the replay of him losing to some scrub... thomas_t_p iirc.

NT

Well, please do a 1v1 against me on the crucible if your so confident.  I'd love to see u just stand behind towers while my war score sky rockets and I have cats in 20 minutes, plus my towers will still be standing.  I'd like to see 10 spirits fly across the map and take down the Citadel.  Even with 10 spirits you lose about 2 or 3 of them while they fly over existing towers or is ur plan to take them out first?  Please feel free to practice at it.  See how long it takes for a level 20 oak with high gold to take down citadel while standing behind your towers and without taking down other towers first.  Because that's why u just said.

"erebus vs minion oak on crucible? lol instant win for oak, all what he has to do is just siting behind towers and getting exp till lvl 7, once he gets 7 lvl just sent new waves of spirits to crush citadel, since when oak needs high war score rank to win , lol"

So smart ass, while standing behind your towers, i'll swarm over to your portal, you'll tp over to prevent me from locking flag, then I tp back and take out your towers. Then like a noob you'll come back to save ur towers if they're still standing or even try to obtain one flag and I'll simply swarm over to your portal again and if you have cash and were smart to purchase another tp you'll tp back once again and then I'll tp back to my towers which are still standing and get the experience flag.  Once you realize that sending 7 or 10 spirits over to my citadel is not working because i increased firepower and fs, you'll start sending spirits to my first line of defense where i will simply mist and kill them all.  Then you'll start to panic and try to get flags in which I'll just simply stop you from doing so. Soon enough, you run out of money because you never had control of gold flag.  Eventually I'll have giants and take over your portal and destroy your citadel while your remaining towers around your gold flag still stand.  So without money, how do you intend to armor your spirits so they can stay alive long enough to take out the citadel? You and several other naysayers on here think you have the answers but have never tried it...hmmm.

you only have to kill 3 archer towers and then no towers hit the spirits.  Those 10 spirits do 1366 damage a second at lvl 10 with a standard amount of gold put in by the oak (takes ~6700g to get all the items you need).. so... have fun misting through 1530 hp spirits while oak rallies all the new spirits over there.  Your mist will take out 1 set of spirits in 13 seconds assuming you maxed mist out by lvl 10... and in that time the spirits will have done over 10k dmg to the citadel.. assuming you misted the second they appeared lol.  You would probably be warscore 10, but you would literally have to have gotten nothing the entire game to get giants by the time the oak was lvl 10 and had all the items he needed.  Any other map, and you have plenty of time, because on those other maps you have to take out more than 3 archer towers.

You've never played against minion oak on crucible, have you?

P.S. I did just go through it to get the numbers right.  I controlled all 3 flags... so I saw WS hit 8 for me when I was lvl 10.  I had more than enough gold even if my gold was cut in half (aka no gold flag).  I took out all 3 archer towers that had fs1 with 1 set of spirits.. next set of spirits killed the citadel in ~1 minute (I forgot to send a couple), game ended in 18 minutes.  Not terrible for the first time I've ever played pure minion oak.

I say you 2 of you should play and post a replay.  Then whoever is wrong can eat crow. 

no thanks I don't play gay strats.  There's already been more than one replay posted of this anyway.

Anyone know what happened in this game?

http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&show=details&id=124247

Oh... it was boxxy_koush not renz.. but koush had played ere more on crucible 1v1 anyway.  I know pretty much exactly what happend in koush's game.  He was porting around and taking all the flags he could (swarmed past 1 set of towers, capped valor, swarmed past the valor towers and got gold, swarmed and got portal, swarmed across the gap from xp flag down to creeps, etc).  He had 2 early kills as well.  Then the other guy was like "BAM" and sent all his minions to destroy the cit.  Koush was getting the enemy portal at the time.  His citadel dropped to ~20k.  He valiantly tried to defend with a better strat than mist.  He did lvl 4 mass charm with nature's reckoning and constantly attacking / biting / batswarming minions and constant citadel gadgets.  It didn't matter and he still lost.  The other guy used horn of battle instead of ring of divine might, and got ironwalkers earlier.  I thiink koush had cata's out.  He was able to hold off for quite some time tho.  I think he just ran out of gold to keep gadgets up or lost too much citadel health when he had to go and buy more or something.  

No I mean what did the guy who beat the guy who beat Koush do.  Did he really just use level 4  idols and kill the citadel faster than the spirits?

oh.. ya, no idea.  It's possible.. that guy was on and off.  I remember playing against him back in March or so and he was doing the weirdest shit.. I had questioned him about it, and he said he was playing his brothers account lol.  He also was known for host exploiting if he didn't end up winning for w/e reason.  Anyway.. here's a little gem I found from our dear friend Zen_God showing just how gay minion oak is... http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/1333447/player/99246/

Wow, maybe you should recheck your numbers.  I did do a practice game against AI, set oak at level 20, high gold and started out filthy rich.  All I did during the entire game was send spirits over to Citadel and take down archer towers first and then the citadel.  Starting off at level 20, high gold and 25,000 it still took me 17 min 38 seconds to bring down the citadel...that's with towers set at normal and no tower regeneration on part of the AI and probably no increased firepower. Spirits were fully armored as well. Hmmm...I would like to see the replay of this game you just did because I think you're full of crap.  

Please, let's give it a go then. Would you like towers on high or normal since you did the math and all. I'm kind of tired of talking about it and have offered to do a match.  But nobody is willing to take the challenge....hmmm.

Hmm after reading your post devastator69, i thought maybe the oak abuse was only valid with the old horn so gave it a try with ring of divine might.As you wrote in your post, i also  started the game at level 20,filthy rich and with war rank 10 for highest cit hp and got 5 items boosting minions and no artifacts. Skilled up for minion build and sent my spirits to citadel. The game lasted 4 minutes 38 seconds. The first 2 minutes of it was me picking the skills buying the items( took me longer to see what items i should go for optimal damage with minions) and walking mid to get the spirits up.after i got the spirits up it took me less than  2 minutes and 30 second to take the citadel down. while spirits were attacking the citadel no FS was bought for the opponent and the enemy ai didn't attack the spirits but seeing how fast the cit went down i think "citadel rush" still works. archer towers went down so fast, it was ridiculous.

edit:oh i think that thomas guy even beat the mighty renz erebus with the same tactic, however there is nothing to do against this tactic unless you bite for 5k with ereb.

before i saw this i thought you are averege player, a guy who knows a basic and who overrates his skills, but after i saw this n/c ......

man are you TRYING to say that YOU were 20lvl minion oak with 25k gold at start and you needed 17 minutes to took down the citadel?!?!?!?!?!?!?! i started same game, 20lvl, 25k gold,normal towers and it took me 3:36 to win and i am sure here, among us are better players who would do that faster then I, you wanna see save replay? 

Okay, I did the practice round over and this time I didn't purchase any minions, spent all money on armor, didn't waste time getting flags and killing the AI. Nope, I didn't bother making the game realistic at all so with 25,000 to start and high gold I got the time down to 4:34.  That was with normal towers, But seriously folks, your not going to start out with 25,000 and high armor and such.  BUT, if you would like to challenge me in an oak vs erebus match on the citadel map with 25,000 and high gold at level 20 I'll do that as well.

Question, why the hell does it matter? This is no world changing argument.

Question, do you expect world changing arguments on a forum for a video game?  An argument about said video game seems quite appropriate to me. 

Agreed, this is precisely the purpose of a dg forum. Beats the hell out of "you host dc'd!!"

I will make 1 comment re min oak. I remember a specific success against a min oak was as erebus (myself) with ub and reg on my team. Note we didn't choose this as a counter and didn't know the strat was going to be used. As soon as we saw it happening the basic approach was to locate the oak and coordinate with ub. I would bat sw. in, bite, mass charm in order for ub to get there and then gank asap (with reg support). Note the oak didn't take shield and so we were able to gank as he went pure minion. The point is we really had to go after him in order for this to be successful. I will look for the replay as I can't remember how proficient the oak was. From recollection we did get ganked ourselves a couple of times chasing the oak but we usually at least got him as we committed. Any comments on this counter or other effective ones?

What kind of AI did you try it against?  I did it vs a hard Erebus first and got owned lol.  Well I still would have won but he killed me in the first minute while I was only focused on killing the citadel so I rage quit.  Second time around vs a normal Ereb I took it down in 3:31 seconds though.  I had to call my spirits back to kill the ai twice. 

lol.. 

That's the point.. you don't need 25000 gold.  I've already told you how much you need.  Want me to post the replay?  It was literally 4 items:

Hauberk - 1750 (200 minion hp)

Vinling Helm - 2000 (200 minion hp)

Gladiator Gloves - 450g (+4 dmg +5% attack speed per minion)

Gloves of Fel-Drakur - 3500g (+8 dmg +5% atk speed per minion)

------

7700g.  You can acquire the whole thing by 10 or shortly after.  You don't need high armor on the minions.. all they have to do is take out 3 archer towers (4 if you want to take out one by the crystal so reinforcements take literally 0 damage going over).  It took me 2:25 to accomplish this.. and I sat around waiting forever to get the stupid creeps to come.

It's entirely realistic.  The only question is:  Can you avoid dying to an erebus multiple times?  Do you have the patience to sit around for 15 minutes doing literally nothing?  Personally I can't handle doing that against a real opponent.  I like to go out and engage.

p.s. In a "real" game, you're not going to be getting flags, minions, or citadel upgrades.  Unless your opponent is stupid, you're not going to get any kills either.  You will never take down every tower (why do that?  You only *need* to take down 3) You're literally going to be leveling to 10, focusing your spirits on the enemy as best you can, and waiting.  It's how a pure minion oak works.

Also he might have gotten caught off guard the first time like koush and me, but not a second time

If we are talking general counters to a minion oak an erebus with a few crawlers can actually kill wards thus preventing spirits from appearing. Not a whole lot of people actually know how to do this unfortunately.

Yea, and it actually does work quite good, but the wards are hard to target in the middle of a fight. 

"Jona, you pretty much called me out again today, saying you would LOVE to vs me. 

Those threads were locked for a reason.  Those aren't arguments they're just harassment.  There is a stark difference between "YOU SUCK!  SRSLY... TERRIBLE.. IM POSTING THIS SO EVERYONE ELSE CAN LAUGH AT YOU TOO LOLOLOLOL" and "I disagree that plenor battlehelm is better than vlemish faceguard."

Don't think your quote was directed at me but I did the battle against a nightmare erebus ai.  I was oak, towers were normal.  It took me 4:31 to take down citadel and towers.  Plus, I reversed it with me being erebus.  I took down all 3 archer towers and cit in 2:21. So I seem to be a much better erebus than an Oak. Oak even ported back over and was attacking me as I took down towers and citadel. I was able to get creeps quick and convert them to crawlers since I was right near oak's gate.