Anyone read that icefrog tell-all by a disgruntled Valve employee??

Between Demigod, Heroes of Newearth and Leagure of Legends, I think this niche genre is kind of ... saturated.  I trust Valve will make it work, and add their usual spices, however I have to ask: how many of these games do people need in such a short period of time?  Heroes of Newearth is, for all purposes, what DotA fans were clamoring for.

The genre isn't saturated! Modern shooters are an example of saturated. 2 games is not saturated. (Demigod didn't count)

This deserves to fail horribly if for no other reason then Valve's BS attempt to trademark "DotA", which is something they had nothing to do with and Icefrog has no particular claim to either (as simply the current maintainer of something created by people before him).

I don't think you all are being very fair to Ice and Dota.  Yes IceFrog wasn't the original creator, but Dota would have died a long time ago without the constant balance and updates. 
Have you all read the post?

All that is really being done is Dota is getting a big financial backing.  And it was just a MOD!  This is a success, not a negative.  Now if they go the route of TF2 and make a full blown store out of the thing.... then I may have to recant.  But if it ends up like I'm thinking it will be - IT WILL BE EPIC!!!

While I plan to enjoy whatever they come up with, the DOTA name is more of a restriction than a hurdle.  Hardcore DOTA fans call league of legends too much a break from the original formula, and genre fans consider HON to be nothing new.  With "DOTA 2", they are really boxing themselves in as far as what they can do creatively.

Well, it appears all is not well at Valve, and Icefrog is apparently not leading Valve in a good direction.

No wonder DOTA's community is renowned as the worst of the internet. The man they so revere seems to fit right in with them. I've pretty much given up on Valve anyway. Tired of seeing them work on and release project after project while we still wait for episode three.

Icefrog is maintainer number... what, 3? He didn't create DotA. He didn't create DotA Allstars. He stepped in later. And that's great. But it doesn't give him or Valve any kind of moral right to trademark the name and block the ACTUAL CREATORS from using it. That was just a sleazy corporate team in action.

DOTA and its clones were entertaining games, but have the most toxic, cancerous communities I've ever seen.  Unfortunately, I don't think even Valve can fix that aspect of the game.

Our definitions are just different. WWII shooters was a saturated genre. DOTA games are not. There's 2 of them that have any relevance at all.

Just like there are 2 (well, 3 now though I don't think MoH's long-term prospects are good) modern shooters that have any relevance at all Nobody mentions any other modern shooters anymore, all the comparison is between these. As such, how many games came before is basically irrelevant, it's the number of games currently in the picture that counts.

Yes, if you look at the absolute numbers there are many more modern shooters that have been released compared to DotA-style games. But if you are a new player trying to get into the modern shooter genre your options are Modern Warfare 2, Bad Company 2, and Medal of Honor. You'd never look at anything else. Likewise for a new playing going into DotA - they'll have LoL, HoN, and for what it's worth, Demigod.

It's never the total number of games in the genre that have ever been released that's important when deciding on a new game of the genre. It's how many current games in that genre people are playing that their new game will have to compete with. Apparently, Valve thinks they can create enough appeal for DotA 2 (probably by name, as much as anything else) to make it a successful competitor to the existing games. Time will tell if they manage

The genre is probably mildly saturated, especially since it is already a niche genre.  League of Legends, Demigod, Heroes of Newerth, Bloodline Champions and more recently, Storm of the Imperial Sanctum, are all competing for the same niche player base.

I think Dota2 will probably succeed because it's going to grab the players that were attracted to HoN and SOTIS; people that really liked the old DotA formula and pacing and items and heroes.  HoN and SOTIS have copied, at some level verbatem, a good chunk of DotA's heroes, items, abilities, etc.  With Dota2 being a strict DotA clone (even down to the item/heroes names, which is something HoN was afraid to do legally), I think it will find the success and legitimacy that HoN and SOTIS have tried to achieve, but have ultimately failed to do. And of course, it's a Valve game, so it will undoubtably pull in some people who weren't originally fans of the genre.