Losing faith in Elemental

Well, when you pre-order a game, as I did too, what you are doing is buying a game in an unfinished state that (in this case) you can try out the pre-release builds as it reaches its finished state.  That being the case, what's the difference whether they released it in August still needing a lot of work or they waited until February and released it in a more polished state? 

Rather than losing faith, the degree of improvement seen in each successive patch and dev journals and posts have given me faith Elemental will one day be the game we hoped for.  Even as it is now I think it's pretty good.  But, like you, I can imagine it can be a lot better.

This space for rent.

I'll wait for 1.1 before my final review.

I expect a whole lot of improvement in 1.1, especially in regards to AI capability.

1,1  is just a patch. Dont you remember all stardock promises since beta 1?! This game can be good (or bad), but you need to wait at least 6 month, then check the reviews.

Damn that's harsh.  I understand the OP sentiment, even if I personally am enjoying the game.  But, shit, we know all this by now, I've bitched like this, most of us have bitched like this already.  We are done with that phase 1 bitchfest.  time to move on.  Good to point out things that you find as problems in the game, gets us to talk about it and then maybe SD will make a change, but hissy fits like this is not helping.  They get it.  They've gotten it.  People are unhappy with how the game came out.  We are on bitch phase 2 now, so if you don't want to play and help make it better, then go away and let us play and work.

The game was released on, what, the 5th of September?  I would suggest getting a more comfortable seat, because the wait is going to be a longer one. 

cpl_rk: I think that the big changes being made to core systems is going to keep the AI improvements fairly minimal at first.  You know, if they just concentrated on tactical battles and made the world AI more defensive minded, it would be an OK start.

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it came out 24th of aguest. shouldn't lose faith at least hold onto 1.1, its almost like waiting for minecraft to be finished... or even DNF but when its done its done.

1. You're late to the party. Things have been changing like that because people found the original game lacking. If you'd prefer they not improve the game that's fine, but asking them to invent a time machine and re-release with all these mechanics in place doesn't accomplish anything. Simply complaining that they released an unfinished game doesn't accomplish anything either because it's already been discussed to death. 

2. Sorry about your glitches, but things like that are common in pretty much any new game. My Civ5 game's fog of war is just black hexagonal boxes instead of the white clouds.

3. I use the drag feature so I haven't noticed that issue very much.

4. Don't suggest things you have no comprehension of. The engine they created is far more powerful than the GalCivII engine and can be used for any game they make for years to come. Creating a new engine is long and painful, and as they found out at launch, a lot harder now due to the much larger number of computer configurations compared to the past.

5. Stardock thought they released a complete, un-buggy game. You can call bullshit or whatever you want, but they didn't intend any of this, and I give them a pass for it.

Really, if you really want to be proved wrong, write up bug reports and submit them so Stardock can figure out WHY you're having these issues. Just stating that you're having  them is no where near as useful as having the debug info to go along with it.

I'm not normally a grammar Nazi but this is one internet phenomenon I'd really like to stamp out. It's lose, losing, or loser. Not "loose."

Anyway, I'm delighted to hear this game is as buggy as MOM was when it first came out.

I am very saddened to hear you're not enjoying the game.  

You are correct that the GalCiv II engine (Pear) was very solid.  That was because by 2006 (GalCiv II) it was a 9 year old engine that had been endlessly refined.  But it couldn't do what Elemental needed done (it had no animation system for instance).

The original GalCiv wasn't a masterpiece by any means. the difference is that the expectations were different and that we're working to make sure Elemental 1 reaches its potential rather than just putting it on the shelf and going on to the next game.

As a result, the game will be going through substantial changes over the coming months.  

Totally totally disagree.   Galciv is why I am here today.   It's strange how that works.   I'm in that same situation--I've got this killer app, I created this wonderful main window.   Then I've got this rinky-dink dialog box off to the side, the users end up leaving that up 24x7, while they like to minimize the main window.   I almost made that dialog box a modal dialog, I thought it was so trivial.   I had no idea.   I just had to reorg my app to flesh out the dialog and make it the mainWindow, and give it a menubar to let you bring up what I *thought* should be the main window.  I know I know, the customer is NOT always right, but this time they are.

thank you all for your warm words ,

ill have an eye on the evolution of the game.

I have read every post very carefully and just wanna pick one thing out:

"Really, if you really want to be proved wrong, write up bug reports and submit them so Stardock can figure out WHY you're having these issues. Just stating that you're having  them is no where near as useful as having the debug info to go along with it."

Its like I wrote nearly 3 threads about the non-exiting and horrible edge scrolling (since Beta). Those threads were nearly ignored. I also wrote one about the small green/blue/grey lines, which gave me one answer from a dev, but it was more like: "ok, its related to antialiasing...", and indeed it is, when switching it off those line vanish.

I am complaining about the general feeling i have with this game. After those cool titles like GalCiv II and Soase my expections were high,maybe too high, admitted. But nonetheless, elemental should hold this (selfset) high standard.

I know that moaning around is much more easily done than the job sd does with fixing this game and i appreciate their effort, thats not the question, its just the feeling that a really great concept of a game is going down the drain due to a rushed release and technical problems.

I beg you frogboy, make me smile again with a "perfect" elemental game experience!

I agree it's strange how that works.  I'm here because of MoM and AoW 1, 2 and SM.  I recently went back and played MoM with the latest community patch (1.14f?) and I have to say   Compared to the potential of EWoM MoM is far from a masterpiece.  I also played a bit of AoW:SM yesterday (yay for impulse selling it) without the community patch and I remember how horribly unbalanced it is.  Play the Syrons and use their Lightning Catchers to defend cities... so much cheese.  Anyway, point is looking at these two old classics that I loved (not using community patches because that's only fair) using the same critical eye I've been subjecting EWoM to, EWoM is easily on par with those games 1 month after their release and is likely going to surpass them in the long haul.

I'm not saying EWoM doesn't have issues, but MoM and AoW:SM without community patches are... well... good games, but they have issues too.

Note: I'm not a graphics hog, I actually consider graphics a part of the UI and not something that necessarily makes a game "better".  So MoM's graphics don't matter to me.

You know, it's not so much the bugs that make me a little timid about making a purchase. It's the idea of really enjoying a core mechanic or really loving a certain unit or spell and then seeing that get changed or nerfed in favor of something I don't like as much. Part of me would rather just not know and come to enjoy the game once it's stabilized a bit more.

It makes me wonder if it would be feasible to loosely couple game rules/balancing/mechanics concerns from the lower level stuff where (I'm assuming) bugs are more likely to get dealt with so players could roll back to a preferred 'edition' of the game while still enjoying improvements to stability and graphics.

Oh well, it sounds like the release was a little premature but you guys are one of the few who maintains their commitments to their games and who seem to be able to resist the temptation to turn every good idea into some shallow variant of an FPS. Not to mention I'm really curious as to what's there so far.

I've actually been enjoying that.  As things change I've had to find new strategies.  Though admittedly some strategies haven't stopped working, like summoned armies but that's coming.  It's like starting from scratch when something changes enough that an old strategy doesn't work anymore.

That is what I'm committed to.  Next week, there will be announcement that will really demonstrates just how serious I am to making sure Elemental rocks. People are going to freak out.

The game mechanic changes are addressing ones that are universally bad.  They weren't part of the original design of the game but rather were a badly chosen compromise:

1. Population as a resource not being properly used.

2. Non-global mana.

The game will play very differently but at the same time, I don't think you'll find any of the changes to take away from what you like now.

Brad,

Any chance you can fix the Kingdom side Mace and Warhammer, I really do not think it would be difficult for the folks who created it to swap the weapons around and make the regression a progression again...  I mean who's idea was it to make it go backwards?  or did they just not look at the context of the change in light of all the weapons in the both faction trees?

I have to imagine this is easier than the AI to fix.  So I'm stumped as to why it isn't.  Unless SD likes a reverse progression?  Likes regressive tech trees?

Anyone else,

Do people really prefer  the mace and warhammer on the kingdom faction the way they are now?    

Edit: I think I'll go ahead and self-moderate.  Guess I'm just in a grumpy mood or something.

It would be nice to have a decent damage 1 handed weapon Kingdom side.  How about making the Warhammer an 8 instead of a 5?  Solved.  Shit, Brad, you should totally hire me, I'm like like one of those new age geniuses, like they had in the olden days.

OK - now that's intriguing

Paul Mason's slogan was, "We serve NO WINE BEFORE it's TIME."

Only in the world of computer gaming could a reputable company release a KNOWINGLY DEFECTIVE PRODUCT and hope to survive in the marketplace, with the promise -- TRUST US -- We'll fix it later."

If Elemental was a car, it would be subject to the "Lemon-Laws" and I could take back for a refund or a replacement.

In fact, EVERY PRODUCT sold at Best Buy, Wal-Mart and any other reputable retail chain in the country offers no questions asked replacements and refunds and every single item in their stores EXCEPT underwear and computer games.

A problem that causes memory leakage on a 32-bit computer, to the extent that the memory overloads and the game freezes and shuts down is NOT a minor problem guys.  I have a Toshiba Satellite Laptop (less than a year old) with 4 MEG RAM -- If it won't run on MY machine -- how many others might you suppose it would not run on?

Frog... I hope you do indeed live up to your promise ... but I, for one -- am disappointed that the game was ever released at this stage of development in the first place.  While I realize the difficulty involved in trying to write a program that will run smoothly on every single conceivable platform ever created, I also don't think it is too much to ask that you AT LEAST PLAYTEST it on the MAJOR PLATFORMS on the market -- with particular emphasis on the BEST SELLING MACHINES in the past 3 years (which seems to be the average shelf-life of most household computers).

So? I can only assume that Elemental was NOT PLAYTESTED over various platforms -- or that you KNEW about the problem BEFORE the game was ever released and somebody above you in STARDOCK said -- SCREW EM,  TIME is MONEY -- we're gonna release it anyway and deal with the bitchin and moanin.

Tricked Ticked Rick

Holy crap, you have a new computer with only 4 MEG of RAM? I didn't think you could get a new computer with that little

In deed, mostly I expect the bugs that have been in and are still in from the orignal betas to be fixed..

1.  Well, for core mechanics, what is the term - suxxor?  So, any change to core mechanics I view as good.  It won't bother me since I also view the game no where near what I would consider its potential fun factor.  Mechanics are a bit brain dead right now, in my opinion.

2.  Minor graphics wierdness I could live with if the game was fun.  I mean I still play some GoG games and they're not exactly eye candy any more.

3.  Can't comment on this.  I haven't played and am waiting for the patches to alter game play into some thing I will enjoy.

4.  See the El Froggo post.

5.  I am beginning to wonder if the TBoR ran into the Recession.  It could be they ran out of money and had no seed money left.  They did have to lay people off.  Basically, Reality hit, "What they wish," can't happen.  There's a reason they don't say, "Wishes makes the world go around."  I would like to note that El Froggo and team has tried to keep up in the loop on what they are doing with the game.  They don't see it as finished either apparently and want a good product, let alone a good game.  How many company's don't try to communicate with their player base or tell them about up coming patches?  SD seems earnest at least.  If it's nothing than a PR move, it's still a good move.  Shoot, I even like the little slices of home life Frogboy gives.  For some reason, it makes him more personable and likable to me.  I just feel sorry some times for his wife .