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Lot of interesting stuff going on

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Lot of interesting stuff going on

from JoeUser Forums

So right now the team is working on getting v1.09 of Elemental out this week.  I’ve been working on the AI which continues to generate a considerable amount of pain for me but it’s getting better but as I’ve gotten better at the game I’ve found it very problematic at certain things.

What I’m working on tonight is a detailed user manual update that will be based on v1.1 of the game (global mana and population as a resource).  Population as a resource was something discussed in the beta a lot and was one of the core design elements of the game got lost because, at the time, the engine didn’t support non-storable resources (i.e. resources that are calculated each turn).

Playing Civilization V

I’ve been playing a lot of Civilization 5 recently. I am enjoying it quite a bit and I really really wish the Civ and Elemental communities would cease sniping at each other.  It may seem hard to understand this but Stardock and Firaxis are on the same side.  We’re not competitors. We’re friends. I think I can safely say that we want Civilization V to succeed and Firaxis wants Elemental to succeed. What neither of us want is for everyone to just throw their hands up and decide that Elemental II/Civilization VI should be a first person action game. :-)

Anyway, my point is, please don’t use our forums to criticize Civilization V. Given the state Elemental launched in, it makes us wince (glass houses, stones, etc.). But flaming Civilization V is about the same as flaming Elemental to us. They’re our friends. Please back off.

Elemental UI

Now, a lo of people have been talking about the original Elemental PAX Beta UI:

Kingdom_Scout_influence_Wide

 

Kingdom_Scott_City_Wide

So why did we change from that to our current UI?

There were a lot of reasons but a big one was, at the time we had to do a UI, performance. These are development journals so one assumes some of you guys like technical details. But basically, at the time we had to finalize our UI, we couldn’t support having a context-sensitive detached UI like this (the highlighted object would bring up a context-sensitive mini UI where the current item was).  It also required 1280x1024 which  we weren’t prepared to require as our minimum resolution.

After Elemental: War of Magic, we’ll be able to reevaluate what the engine can support.

Other Ramblings

So v1.09 is still mostly about bug fixing, memory optimization, etc.  A broken API got fixed that made the AI considerably better but it’s still way way too unaggressive.  Having a non-cheating AI kind of stinks sometimes because the AI doesn’t usually know how weak your cities are.  In GalCiv, the AI could come up near your planets and see how poorly defended. But the same technique fails in Elemental because they don’t get close enough to your cities to see how weak they are and then coordinate.  So it’s something I’m still trying to deal with. But if anyone wondered why the AI wasn’t “aggressive” enough now you know. It’s something I’m painfully aware of. 

Demo version

The demo version won’t come out until v1.1 and will be based on that.

Best Buy and Walmart content

v1.09 will also coincide with the special content for people who bought the game as Best Buy or Walmart. They get their own special quests.  That said, we will be providing this content for free to all users 90 days after their availability to those users (they paid for them so don’t feel like you missed out).

Similarly, if you bought the book Elemental: Destiny’s Embers, the full map of Anthys, will be released this week for those who bought the book.

image

The book is at a bookstore near you. We’re pretty happy how it turned out and the book takes place 800 years AFTER the War of Magic so you can get some hints and allusions to things coming up in the game world over the next several years.

375,198 views 143 replies
Reply #126 from Elemental Forums Top

I love the Book map.  Thanks for adding that.

Reply #127 from Elemental Forums Top

so for the scouting thing here's my idea:

have scouting units AND spells, and have the counter be of the opposite type (example: a spy unit (or item pack) that is detected by a spell and a a scry spell that is fooled by a non-detection item)

also, with item packs, you can justify the lack of weapons with the ability to ambush (always go first when ambushing?) . as for logic, you have to carry/hold part of your disguise or you are trying not to be threatening so you can't have a weapon. or, you could have the weapon be "inactive" (concealed) when stealth is on. [in the thief series having weapons drawn draws attention to you]

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #128 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 62



Quoting kryo,
reply 58

I was thinking something a bit lazier like a scouting pack that lets a unit go through tiles belonging to another player.

Be heavily exploited though if it weren't mutually exclusive with weapons.


Yea, that's the trick. How do we justify a pack keeping a player from having weapons?

The unit design has definitely been a challenge because realistically, there should be 3 basic paths:

1. Melee

2. Ranged

3. Calvalry

How do we make all 3 distinct and meaningful? Unit design tends to encourage users to create single glombed mega units that are expensive and largely unsupportable leaving the player to complain about "balance".

 

https://forums.elementalgame.com/394684

Reply #129 from Elemental Forums Top




[/quote"post by Frogboy"]
Best Buy and Walmart content

v1.09 will also coincide with the special content for people who bought the game as Best Buy or Walmart. They get their own special quests.  That said, we will be providing this content for free to all users 90 days after their availability to those users (they paid for them so don’t feel like you missed out).

[/quote]

 

This is why I bought the game a long time ago (in a galaxy far, far...nah!).  I was just looking and saw this, and became a bit angry that there was special content I would not have.  I am still missing 3 items or groups from Dragon Age (because I won't AGAIN but the game, but this time as collecter's edition...how ridiculous) from this same "special content" incentive that is so common now.

I just bought the book the other day for the extra campaign (I didn't know about the extra stuff from the book until last Thursday; found it on the forum by accident).  When I saw this Walmart/BestBuy thing, I started getting mad because I am not going to buy this game 3x over-again.

Then I read this post and thouht, "Frogboy, why would I ever have doubted you?!?"  I understand they get to use it for 90 days exclusively, but then to release it to all, well, that is just "right"!

 

Ps- except for bad customer service I got inquiring about the King Arthur Roleplaying Wargame, I love Stardock and have never had a problem with them, but had MANY great experiences and have seen them doing the "right" thing in almost ever case I've ever soon!

Reply #130 from Elemental Forums Top

This is from the original post by Frogboy:



Best Buy and Walmart content

v1.09 will also coincide with the special content for people who bought the game as Best Buy or Walmart. They get their own special quests.  That said, we will be providing this content for free to all users 90 days after their availability to those users (they paid for them so don’t feel like you missed out).

 

This is why I bought the game a long time ago (in a galaxy far, far...nah!).  I was just looking and saw this, and became a bit angry that there was special content I would not have.  I am still missing 3 items from DRAGON AGE from this same "special content" incentive that is so common now (because I won't buy the game AGAIN, but this time as collecter's edition...how ridiculous).

I just bought the book the other day for the extra campaign (I didn't know about the extra stuff from the book until last Thursday; found it on the forum by accident).  When I saw this Walmart/BestBuy thing, I started getting mad because I am not going to buy this game 3x over-again.

Then I read this post and thought, "Frogboy, why would I ever have doubted you?!?"  I understand they get to use it for 90 days exclusively, but then to release it to all, well, that is just "right"!

 

Ps- except for bad customer service I got inquiring about the King Arthur: The Roleplaying Wargame, I love Stardock and have never had a problem with them, but had MANY great experiences and have seen them doing the "right" thing in almost ever case I've ever soon!

Reply #131 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting NTJedi, reply 24



Quoting James009D,
reply 22

Does this mean that <Calculate> will be applied to more things? For example, could a <Calculate> expression be applied, on a per turn basis, to trait bonuses. For example, the Merchant makes (CHARISMA + WISDOM) / 10 gold per turn?

This would be amazing.



This is just one type of the game depth we need for Elemental. 

For example:

Most monsters should be more than just a fixed set of numbers.  Thus if I'm fighting skelletons then arrows should do little damage where as a warhammer would do lots of damage.  A sand golem should be immune to poison attacks.  A mind flayer should be able to do more damage against units with low intelligence.

And don't forget a Fire Elemental should be.............wait for it........FIRE IMMUNITY.  I just shook my head when I killed a Fire Elemental with fire attacks before I decided to stop playing Elemental until the 1.1 and went back to playing all the AOW's

Reply #132 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Bellack, reply 132

And don't forget a Fire Elemental should be.............wait for it........FIRE IMMUNITY.  I just shook my head when I killed a Fire Elemental with fire attacks before I decided to stop playing Elemental until the 1.1 and went back to playing all the AOW's

Resistances, I can agree with.  Immunity, I can not.  A fireball is not simply fire.  There is mass, force, impact, etc.

Reply #133 from Elemental Forums Top

Agree, resistance yes, immunity no.  I hate immunity. 

Reply #134 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 57
I was thinking something a bit lazier like a scouting pack that lets a unit go through tiles belonging to another player.

I like this idea.

Reply #135 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 62



Quoting kryo,
reply 58

I was thinking something a bit lazier like a scouting pack that lets a unit go through tiles belonging to another player.

Be heavily exploited though if it weren't mutually exclusive with weapons.


Yea, that's the trick. How do we justify a pack keeping a player from having weapons?

The unit design has definitely been a challenge because realistically, there should be 3 basic paths:

1. Melee

2. Ranged

3. Calvalry

How do we make all 3 distinct and meaningful? Unit design tends to encourage users to create single glombed mega units that are expensive and largely unsupportable leaving the player to complain about "balance".

I don't think the scout should be defenseless but he should not be clad in Heavy Armor wielding a Claymore either.  Is there a way to classify weapons and armor into light medium and Heavy? If this can be done then these could be the triggers needed when designing different packs etc. to limit what can be equipt with them.

Reply #136 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Gwenio1, reply 108



Quoting Frogboy,
reply 107
uber armored horse mounted mega archer.


The reason those never existed is because armor slowed the horse down, and the really good bows (longbows and the really powerful versions of crossbows) could not be used on horse back. And it is hard to aim from the back of the horse, but that might be hard to add in.

Actully it would not. Basically the Penalties and bonuses would be on the equitment you choose for the unit.  Have Armor have movement/encumbrance penalties based on what type it is (this would affect Archery which is/should be based on Dex.)   Have each weapon come with bonuses and penalties based on it's function (Longbows have a -5 to hit and damage if used on mounted units, while a shortbow has -2 penalties while mounted something like that. 

Reply #137 from Elemental Forums Top

With regards to different equipment provides different bonus / penalties or excludes by using different equipments: In general, this reads nicely on paper, but I'm not convinced that it will be as nice to play with. First of all, this would mean an overhaul of the shop and troopdesigner UI - moving along on 3 different tabs to find out what works and what not isn't fun - or consider buy a superUeberAxe in a shop only to see that you can't use it at the same time as you wear the superUeberArmor. Additionally, I think it is less fun that with such a system would heavily change the game towards the unitdesigner and lessen the other areas of the game. On the opposite site, if this is being worked out accordingly and feels natural, it could enhance gameplay :-)

Reply #138 from Elemental Forums Top

First of all, this would mean an overhaul of the shop and troopdesigner UI -

You wouldn't need a new UI.  The description would just have to say cannot use with heavy armor etc...  Even though not being able to see the inventory and current equipment while in the shop already needs to be changed anyway.

Reply #139 from Elemental Forums Top

To be honest, I don't really care about descriptions. Normally, I read them once and thats it. But maybe thats only me :-) Nevertheless, usability and easy to use GUIs show effects accordingly and not hide them within the description - more critical if they make them exclusively usable one or the other. If they modify the values based on other equipment and provides a sort of popup/dropdown to show all effects is a different story :-)

Reply #140 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Jharii, reply 133



Quoting Bellack,
reply 132

And don't forget a Fire Elemental should be.............wait for it........FIRE IMMUNITY.  I just shook my head when I killed a Fire Elemental with fire attacks before I decided to stop playing Elemental until the 1.1 and went back to playing all the AOW's



Resistances, I can agree with.  Immunity, I can not.  A fireball is not simply fire.  There is mass, force, impact, etc.

They should have both immunity and resistance in the game. And a creature that lives in fire should have fire immunity. And a fireball is a fire attack hence they should be immune to it. Now if the fireball also had another type of damage like concussive damage then I can see the Fire Elemental taking this damage. So if the fireball was 50% fire damage and 50% concussive damage then he would only take the concussive damage.

Reply #141 from Elemental Forums Top

They should have both immunity and resistance in the game

I'm afraid they have to have damage types first. Game has no idea that flame dart or fireball does fire damage, its simply "damage".

Reply #142 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting DKL, reply 142
I'm afraid they have to have damage types first. Game has no idea that flame dart or fireball does fire damage, its simply "damage".

Heh, yeah.  First things first. =P

Resistance and immunity don't need to be separate systems, though.
As I outlined here, a "damage type vulnerability" can do both easily.
The fire elemental wold have a Vulnerability.Fire of 0 so all incoming fire damage is multiplied by 0.

Better yet:  resist buffs / debuffs would alter the vulnerability by multiplying it by maybe 1.5 to make something more vulnerable.  You could not use such a debuff to make a fire elemental vulnerable to fire because that would make zero sense no matter how you slice it. So it's a solid system to begin with.

This way, Resist Debuffs would also not do something boring like make every creature on the battlefield take 30 more damage from your fireball.
Instead, they would amplify the existing vulnerabilities so a fire giant would take "a little" more fire damage while the same debuff applied to a treant might turn it into a spontaneous combustion waiting to happen.
This way debuffs do not summarily wash away all the carefully crafted elemental resistances but creatures would "stay in character".

 

This also allows for some... interesting effects. Like a magma elemental which has only one attack, which is an AOE "Spray Magma" spell.  Now if the ME has a negative Vulnerability.Fire, it heals itself for a little everytime the attack goes off - simply because it takes fire damage which is multiplied by it's Vulnerability of -0.1 or so.

All with one number...