Black-Knight Black-Knight

The ONLY Way Multiplayer Would Ever Work !!! (out of personal experience)

▼

The ONLY Way Multiplayer Would Ever Work !!! (out of personal experience)

from Elemental Forums

I hope I am wrong but I KNOW I am not: I don't believe at all that online or even LAN multiplayer in this game will work at all. It will be hard to keep players committed to a game like this when they start losing. TBS tend to last a long time and having the losing side waiting to make just a couple of moves while the winning side plays its long rich and satisfying turn just never works in my experience (I have played games like this for 30 years, starting with cardboard wargames). The loser surrenders and leaves VERY soon.

The only way I have ever managed to get this kind of games going was PBEM (Play By E Mail). I have played huge maps of "Age of Wonders" and "Age of Woneders Shadow Magic" for months, one turn each day. A player plays his turn then sends it to the other player who sends it to the next...

The way we made it work was as follows:

I would usually make a map then start playing. After about a couple of weeks of rounds I start another game with the same people so that we have two going at the same time, then another couple of week and I start a third one. Three is the good number usually.

That way after about 2 months of playing certain players start realizing that they are weaker then the others, but keep playing all games for several reasons:

1 They have other two games going where they hope they will be able to win.

2 The game where they are starting to lose begins to be boring for them, but since their empire is smal (they are losing) playing their turn and sending it is not that time consuming.

Before they realize that they are condemned and I am also going to win the next game *_* the first game is over and a fourth has started. I can tell out of personal experience and years of testing (!!!) that SUCH SYSTEM WORKS. On the other end if we were playing at the same time, the losing side would have to wait an hour for me to end my turn, when they just have a couple of units left. NOBODY WOULD EVER DO THAT! And it would be embarrassing to me to enjoy myself while my friends are clearly bored.

This is a very important piece of info for the developers, please don't underestimate this I have tested this for years!

Age Of Wonders Shadow Magic still survives thanks to PBEM, their forum is crowded even after 7 years!

(I know what you are going to say PBEM had a drawback: battles against other players can only be solved in autofight. True but the player can fight all battles against teh AI, thus developing his empire that way, before the confrontation. To be honest once you start playing, you don't really mind: since the autofight system in AOW is extremely well done.) - Besides THAT IS THE ONLY WAY MULTIPLAYER WILL EVER WORK!

 

124,918 views 34 replies
Reply #26 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Fistalis, reply 25
Problem is you totally discount those of us who like to play a game with roommates or friends etc just to have fun. Not every game has to be a deathmatch competition. Those of us who want a MP clone of SP are mainly in this catagory.. PBEM would be no different for us than just playing it together other than the added wait of sending each other our moves after each turn... Why everyone insists that everyone who plays multiplayer does so in a competitive way is beyond me. Is someone playing a game to have fun instead of to just to win that rare?

At this point me and my roommate are limited to civ IV, freelancer , NWN2 and Sacred 2 for games we can play that aren't just deathmatch mode. I don't get why the majority of games only support the deathmatch mode gameplay style..

PBEM does not mean death match, it is just hot seat on separate machines with no tactical combat.

It is quite fun because you can play against a people you would never be able to play with other multiplayer modes and it workd better for large maps with people you do not know personally.

Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Gwenio1, reply 26


PBEM does not mean death match, it is just hot seat on separate machines with no tactical combat.

It is quite fun because you can play against a people you would never be able to play with other multiplayer modes and it workd better for large maps with people you do not know personally.

I know what PBEM is. But his whole argument about how that is the only way it would work is based on everyone having a deathmatch mentality in their gaming. The "TBS tend to last a long time and having the losing side waiting to make just a couple of moves while the winning side plays its long rich and satisfying turn just never works in my experience (I have played games like this for 30 years, starting with cardboard wargames). The loser surrenders and leaves VERY soon." mentality... which simply isnt true for all people was my point. I'm all for PBEM being included but if im offered the choice of a turn based lan or internet mode with tactical combat and all the SP sandbox features functioning or PBEM as my only options then i'm going to vote for the former...

Curtains - Customize Windows with additional styles
Reply #28 from Elemental Forums Top

Look you may have been playing this for 30 years and im only 27, but playing strategy games from the age of 7, and growing up in what i consider the prime era of the pc game, TBS can be finished regularly. Having computer players helps, you can do AI versus human. If you and your friends can only play by PBEM then you guys just arent into the games that much. Even losing in a TBS we never just quit. When your dead your dead. If your friends quit on you that just shows there dedication, if you find they quit often add AI and do your best not alley against the PC.

 

Get used to it, PBEM is going away over the next few years.

Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm all for PBEM being included but if im offered the choice of a turn based lan or internet mode with tactical combat and all the SP sandbox features functioning or PBEM as my only options then i'm going to vote for the former...

Sure, if I am offered the choice to have my friends around any time I want, for a LAN party me too... Actually half of the times I would just go out for a beer and meet girls instead :D ...  My point is what works and if you go to the Age of Wonders forum you'll see that PBEM kept (and keeps) that game alive beyond undead status. Besides lots of people have friends who don't live in the same town as them, maybe who don't even live in the same time zone as them.

 

 

Reply #30 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Black-Knight, reply 29

Sure, if I am offered the choice to have my friends around any time I want, for a LAN party me too... Actually half of the times I would just go out for a beer and meet girls instead ...  My point is what works and if you go to the Age of Wonders forum you'll see that PBEM kept (and keeps) that game alive beyond undead status. Besides lots of people have friends who don't live in the same town as them, maybe who don't even live in the same time zone as them.

 

 

I regularly play Civ IV with two friends in different timezones, one 17 hours behind me and one 14 hours behind me and would never even consider PBEM.  We get more done in one play session on the odd weekend here or there than we ever would with PBEM.  I'm not saying it should not be included, it definitely should, but certainly not at the expense of standard LAN/Internet games.

Reply #31 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Fistalis, reply 25
Problem is you totally discount those of us who like to play a game with roommates or friends etc just to have fun. Not every game has to be a deathmatch competition. Those of us who want a MP clone of SP are mainly in this catagory.. PBEM would be no different for us than just playing it together other than the added wait of sending each other our moves after each turn... Why everyone insists that everyone who plays multiplayer does so in a competitive way is beyond me. Is someone playing a game to have fun instead of to just to win that rare?

At this point me and my roommate are limited to civ IV, freelancer , NWN2 and Sacred 2 for games we can play that aren't just deathmatch mode. I don't get why the majority of games only support the deathmatch mode gameplay style..

Well, the media especially has to have cut-throat competition in most of its shows - so I guess the mentality spills over to computer games.

Best regards,
Steven.

Reply #32 from Elemental Forums Top

the mutiplayer where that most people want is just single player exprince made mutiplayer with as many Ai and human players as possiable.

 

majority of peopel who want this dont play with random people on itnernet they play with freinds and people they know like my self me and my 5 freinds play civ 4 we play for hour or two every night over hamich..

 

and alot of people play like this.

 

it would not be that big of a deal just to take singleplayer game and make it mutiplayer.

 

be honest any othere type of mutiplayer I would not play nore would anyone elese i know personaly.

Reply #33 from Elemental Forums Top

 Besides THAT IS THE ONLY WAY MULTIPLAYER WILL EVER WORK!

Balderdash & I am being kind! :)

Reply #34 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Black-Knight, reply 7



Quoting illmunkeys,
reply 3
I believe the MP is simultaneous movement w/ countdown clock. So, while Stardock is putting options for a longer time clock, you'd never convince me to play an opponent that thought he needed an hour a turn.  I think of it like Rome - you've made your empire so large, you have to choose what to micromanage wisely and eventually, you will begin to see corruption and crumbling within the empire.


 

Even with simultaneous turns you will never manage to get people to sit there, on an Epic TBS game, when they start losing. It just doesn't happen: too time consuming, too much work involved. PBEM on the other hand allowed me to carry through 'almost' all games. And I am not an isolated case, go see the AOW heaven's forum!

I played many TBS with friends without ever needing or even wanting PBEM. Me and my friends sit down and play a couple of hours and have some nice and funny talks. We don't care if we get a couple of rounds into the game or less. It's the social fun that counts. And we mostly play together against AI opponents. Hardly to see us loose in a game but if someone looses we start a new game..no hard feelings about it.

I really can't stand PBEM...it's for people who really need to sit down and think for hours...nah..not for me. I hardly ever needed that much time to manage a kingdom/empire or whatever in any game.