What I find really funny about this thread is that there are mods trying to do these very things, and yet we get limited support. I personally have been trying to add special abilities to units in just these ways, but again no support. If you guys want to see this stuff soon, support the modders as they have the time and energy to make this game great.

Until some APIs for the AI are released, is there much point adding special abilities? The AI wouldn't know how to use them.

That and the morale should be more important in combat, but i think the 1DN system is ok, if the units have enough HP that they cant be killed with one lucky attack.

- It's too slow. I have to wait for animations to finish + more, before issuing my next command

- It's boring. 90% of the combat is moving a melee unit forward, and clicking the enemy to attack. Then I have to click again 6 times. This happens EVERY tactical battle.

- The AI is stupid and easy to exploit. I can always get the first attack in on any enemy unit.

- 1 on 1 fights between two guys from their own 12man squads looks extremely poorly done

- No bodies! Killed units fade out of view in half a second. No spell effects on the ground! Once the animations are done, everything that said "magic" is gone forever.

- No pre-positioning before combat starts. Makes it very difficult to build strategy.

Going to steal a piece of your post:

"All of it together"

Basically all of those things you presented (except maps being too big, maybe). Actually, I think what's too big are the squares. If the map was the same size but the grids were smaller, then movement would be even more of an ability (and could allow for more variation in movement abilities) as well as units/stacks of different sizes which might open positional weaknesses in exchange for more power and occupying more space to hide casters and such behind.

If I had to narrow it down to one thing, I'd say it's the "I go, you go" system where I can pick who and in what order acts. No consideration for speed, weight, enchantments (unless they cause a lost turn like Stab of Ice) - just I can pick who I want to go regardless.

If this has to stay, at least let each side move a "piece" per turn. For example, if I move my swordsman one square and attack, then my opponent gets to move one of his units and use up it's AP. Then it's my turn again, etc.

Probably only for multiplayer.

This is just plain untrue.  Our mod adds special abilities to every weapon and the AI utilizes them sensibly.  Try it out!  We'll be releasing .70 of the Unique Weapon Mods soon, which will give every unit three attacks: default attack, an alternate attack that is situationally useful, and a more powerful once-per-combat ability.  The current version adds in once-per-combat abilities, which add quite a bit of depth to the battles in their own right.

I dont find the combat boring at all, I love it!
Reminds me fo Vandal Hearts, Kigns Bounty type fighting.

1. Agreed, the "I go, you go" system makes combat too simple. In chess you decide which unit to move, then the opponent moves a unit, then you. Elemental really needs an initiative system that takes into account a random factor + experience + encumbrance

2. The units in Elemental are too similar on the tactical map. A unit on horseback moves the same distance as a unit on foot. A unit in plate moves as fast and as far as a unit wearing no armor and attacks from the flank or rear offer no apparant advantage over a frontal attack and the game does not recognize the advantages of specific weapons against specific types of armor.

3. No line of sight restrictions. No chance to surprise the enemy or seek shelter by hiding behind a hill or a city wall.

I completely agree with everything you wrote...  the game has such an opportunity, but the current game package is a wasteland.

I am not suggesting that it is boring, as I have a lot of fun with the combat.

However, I would like to express the need for an 'auto' button that doesn't instantly end the battle.  in MoM and HoMM you could set it to automatically move for you at a quicker pace.  You could stop the auto-combat if you needed to make important commands or take back over if the battle is not going in your favor.

My big gripe about tactical combat is how slow things are, especially ranged attacks.  Hit?  Miss?  Kill?  Takes forever for the animation to complete, and then a good couple seconds more before you can shoot again.  Frustratingly slow!

I generally put out some super elite mounted archers, tweaked with every Combat move-adding equipment I can.  I almost have them able to fire four arrows/turn now each.  Its become pointless to even bring melee units.  My heroes cast area of effect, now I'm bringing on a second hero so the first one can save mana to tport around or whatever.

Biggest problem is slow animation and no way to skip it. When you have full squad of archers, making your turn takes ages. Especially for mounted champions.

Second - lack of any 'tactics' in 'tactical combat'.

Some great posts in this thread that I agree with entirely. Hopefully we'll see the start of some improvements to the tactical battle system come the 1.08 patch onwards.

It's unfinished and only has 3 dimensions.  Magic, archers, escape.  Hand to hand vs. monsters is pure suicide.  Obstacles and cover don't work well.  The hit/miss vs. damage/no damage isn't working right.

I don't think it's that boring but I wonder why there are so few cover tiles.  The mechanic exists for terrain to alter defense both positivly and negativly but there are only a few tactical maps. If there was more of this it would improve tactical combat in my opinion.

Nack210 said "1 on 1 fights between 2 squads of troops (as in, when 2 parties/legions attack each other on the battlefield, 1 guy from each do some sort of duel). This is motly visual, so I'm guessing they are gonna change it eventually."

this is my biggest gripe with tactical combat. sid meier's pirates and civilization revolution does tactical battles better and those games are years old now. I know Stardock can rectify this situation...

Frogboy needs to play Age of Wonders : Shadow Magic again.

I had some great tactical battles in that game, real nail biters. It isn't perfect by any means but it does produce much better battles than Elemental does.

Age of Wonders has much better combat

Hexes are the way to go as well

I don't think it's lat boring, your question is a little loaded.

However I think more Elements on the battle field including cover, etc would make it more fun. I would also like to see range figured into bow attacks e.g. your more likly to hit close up if they have no cover.

Also I think combat needs more than just direct attack damage spells, I think some tactical summons, more powerful but only last a few turns would help.

Right now it seems like there's no point in differentiating troops, you just get the best armor and weapon you can make.  No point in building mixed forces of light, agile "skirmishers" and slower, heavy "tanks", back-row archers and casters.

Definitely there are not enough interesting spells. 

How about situational affects that randomly effect the whole battle?  E.g.: night battle (no ranged units or ranged units have really short range), stormy weather, etc.  I know this would require a whole bunch more graphical effects, but still it would add some level of interest.

Also right now the battle system seems to discourage making Sovs or heroes who engage in actual combat.  It seems to me it's easier to build an powerful caster who sits in the back.  (I don't know maybe that's by design?)

I know I'm totally pointing out problems not solutions, but that's why I'm a player not a designer...

It is not loaded, for me it is completely boring. I understand that some people may see it differently, but I would never understand why. At this point it is quite boring to the level that I do not play it.

For tactical combat, you need an attack / defence system that gives more variety and flavor. This is mainly because the tactical combat must be interesting in itself, or you might as well not have it. Some ways to do this has allready been suggested.

1: Special abilities. Considering how the game is designed, having those granted by one or more of a combination of race, weapon, and armor seems most likely. Shield? Then you can shield bash or form shield walls (large squads in particular). Mounted troops charging several squares, e.g. Empires should have spiked armor as an option, and so on.

2: Terrain with more variety than +25/+50% defence. Cover, concealment, etc.

3: The combat system itself is borrowed from GalCiv II, and I don't think it's all that suitable. It's easy to balance, though, and at least there is some intricacies in weapon / armor interaction, but it gives little variety in combat.... it gets the job done, but it's not all that exciting; it was from a game without tactical combat, after all.

I'm not advocating ripping out the combat system and replacing it entirely, but I think it should be considered. It would be better with a system that leaves more room for animations and sound appropriate to what's going on, as well as more variety in equipment. (It's easier to make varied weapons and armor if you have more than 1.5 stats to work with.).

Possibly it would be a good thing with less dramatic differences from starting to end game gear, or starting to first tier equipment, for that matter.

Thats one of the beauties I thought of the simplistic HOMM combat.  It had a very simple rock paper scissors style, but it helped promote a diverse army, with my hero supporting with his magic.  Unique abilities or attributes would help a long way to making the tactical battles more well tactical.  Obviously more gear oriented in this game though.  Maybe having a unit in light armor moving more spaces and having more attacks against slow opponents, so they would be great closing the gap and trying to either quickly take out an archer, or a weak unit.  Maybe having pikes and spearmen having a defense bonus, since they generally work better as defensive weapons then others do.  Having a big tower shield have a bonus vs arrows, but reduces mobility and attack speed.  These types of attributes could easily be added to the current system, just balancing the rest of the stats and items around it would just be time consuming to keep it balanced.

This isn't set in stone but this is what we're thinking about: