An Apology to the Devs

Yes, I agree...but they'll need to patch the crap out of this game to make it fun.

I agree.   There has been entirely too much negative rehash.  OK.   There were problems with launch.   Everybody knows that.   SD has awknowledged the need for improvement.  A number of patches are planned to address those issues.   Nothing worthwhile is to be gained by going over the same ground again.

Let's focus on the future and the features that we would like to have in the game.    

You can stuff your sorries into a sack, mister!

@NasMan

"Yes, I agree...but they'll need to patch the crap out of this game to make it fun."

True to some extent but that isn't the point of this topic. The point is to show that some people actually care about the community and the fact that for stardock to have actually locked two dev journals we really messed up as a community. I am sure that the devs already know they need to do more patches and I am sure are also aware that they need to make some game changes. Those topics about needing more patches have been beaten to death and I think we need to move past them and work towards helping the devs find the issues or reporting changes we might like to see. The game is not perfect just as nothing in the world is. But just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean that the devs aren't doing anything to fix the problems. 

It would seem my apparently deleted predicition was true.

Giving constructive advice is more useful than apologizing on behalf of those who don't do that.

The devs have admitted that they deserve criticism, so there is no reason to say that the game is great and criticism is not warranted.

That being said... i'm going to go contribute more suggestions to make the game better : D

Frogboy is a big frog so I wouldn't worry about his hurt feelings, only the future of his perceived integrity and attention to due diligence. He is the 'Buck Stops Here' guy after all. All this will come back to haunt them on the next big release of a new title. But as that goes, so will Frogboy making the decisions that vindicates SD or puts them behind the 8ball. I am a big believer in redemption and ultimate triumph over adversity, but I for one am not inclined to preorder next time..

Agreed..I was just venting because I had such high hopes for the 'out of box' experience. It does have a lot of potential. We'll see what happens.

If I could get people to care about my company's products this much I would be happy.  If they are professional they keep it in perspective.  That being said, please work hard to make the september patch a Civ KILLER!

@ UmbralAngel 

I agree but if you have read the response from frogboy, a very deep, and sincere apology to us fans. The devs got the criticism, and more so via: death wishes to frogboy. Several people crossed the line. It is not okay and never has been to say something like that also after being warned several times by moderators that they would close down the dev journals still people persisted in being destructive. I wasn't apart of this and you can probably review all of my posts and see that I don't tear down things people say unless warranted. I would say that what stardock needs to hear is also support and trust from us that we care and not just things they could have done better. 

Yes the game has problems, we all know that. I want to still hear from frogboy and other devs about what they are doing and what they are dreaming up. This is the reason I got the game was the openness to the fans and it should never go away. We the community have our part to do to make sure that it doesn't. As stardock has responded to us so, I feel we should respond to them in kind.

@ AbsynthMinded 

I would be one to disagree that we don't need to worry about others feelings. It doesn't matter how old you are if all you hear is criticism then it wears you down a lot. This is clear by how he responded in the dev journals. This isn't a suggestions thread or really a comments thread on the game. It is an apology to the devs from those who probably won't apologize for saying some extraordinarily hurtful things. The internet takes away our identities and humanity so that we become an name avatar persona. For some very odd reason people think that this anonymity allows them to say what ever they want. I for one and I know I am not alone in this, people need to be polite as if they were in person with the people they are talking to. 

(check out g4tv.com's forums and the "feedback" last week to see how much people actually take to heart the forum voice of hatred)

I understand what you are doing and and I think its good.

But I don't think you should not have to appologize for other peoples' actions.  You are not thier mommy.

I think it's been the difference between being dissatisfied and expressing that dissatisfaction and just being mean-spirited. I'm glad people have high standards but it's become about something it's not now. That's sad and dangerous and really hurts the community in multiple ways, short term and long term.

I don't really get this. They work and produce a game. I pay them.

I do not owe them a thing, especially an apology.

I'm sorry, what exactly are our mistakes as fans of Stardock? I think the hating is a vocal minority, personally.

That attitude though, when extrapolated to how this entire situation has played out, is rather narcissistic.  In a business sense, yes, that's absolutely true, but in social interactions with the developers, or anybody, it's simply good manners and being the better man to treat other people (and, believe it not, people develop games!) with decency and respect.

That is not, of course, implying that you've acted like that.  But there have been a number of people that haven't been observing any policy of respect and decency around here, and I for one feel that such behavior is uncalled for.  It accomplishes nothing at all that benefits anybody tangibly.

Oh god, all this mea culpa nonsense needs to stop.

Everyone wanted this game to be great.  Everyone was really excited thanks to Brad.

The game was released and sucks.  Now everyone is mad in some flavor.  It falls in three camps:

-Emotional disappointment.  Typically the type that expected MoM2 and is crushed that, fifteen years later, the thing touted as the spiritual sequel is a failure.  You see the most raw venom with this type.

-Dissatisfaction in the product's quality.  This group is angry that the delivered product is in such shoddy shape that it could easily pass for an early-mid beta.  Some see the design flaws, some don't, some point them out, some just want their money back.  Reasonable, but not without an edge.

-Cognitive dissonance.  The fanboys.  Brad can do no wrong; stop complaining because Stardock will fix it all; Elemental is full of potential and you're just too impatient to see that; it's all my/our/the trolls' fault; etc.  Deeply disappointed in the game, arguably more than either of the groups, they try to drown it out with zealotry.

I don't think it sucks personally but your milage may vary.

@lord ebonstone

I would assume, then, the fact that I've been playing the game just about every evening and enjoying it greatly is some kind of strange illusion of fabrication on my part?    I can readily admit that the game has a number of flaws, some of which are striking (I've elaborated both on these forums and to friends of mine at length concerning such things), but that doesn't mean that I'm simply not enjoying it for what it is.

Assuming that the game is impossible to enjoy if it's not, absolutely, the greatest game to come in the last decade, is a bit unreasonable.

I think everybody needs to calm down.  It's a game.

I agree. I'm getting annoyed by the multiple threads out there complaining about the community. I just bought the game and became a part of this community and I don't owe anyone anything other than a certain level of courtesy.

That said, I am going to actively avoid these kinds of threads from now on. What I'm really interested in is how I can start modding.

The reason I said this was to apologize for others actions. No I don't need to do this and its not really about that. if you have been paying attention to the threads it really became toxic. For me personally to read, I usually don't post. I was disturbed at the closing down of threads and the jumping all over people. I also payed them and I also expect a good product. Personally I have really enjoyed it. If people are angry express it and construct a way to help fix it. 

@ Onionfighter 

I get what you mean about multiple threads, but I have seen a large majority focused on the same problems with out solutions and more hate then helpful construction. Maybe its a difference in what we read but there is a difference. I am not apologizing for my actions what so ever and I want to thank the developers for the work they put into the game. Personally I would hate it if I came out with something and everyone jumped down my throat like several very vocal people have. 

I want the developers to see there are people that appreciate the things they do to keep this community a place to return to. That is the point. I actually enjoyed the posts frogboy had and I would hate for him to stop. (I already know he has stated in other threads he is taking a break so he can focus on the game) 

My post does not condone the things that are bad with the game. After all I experience the worst issues along with several other people. What it does is apologize for the lack of courtesy and give an example that people still want this game to be awesome. 

All this whining is getting old and I don't even frequent this board.

Nobody was forced to buy this game.  That's the nice thing about buying something, it has to be a mutual agreement.  If you're a "sensitive" gamer and unwilling to take a risk, or have limited financial assets to spend on gaming, yet you were lazy and purchased the game without doing the BASIC research (one damn Google query or a single review would have been enough) which would have alerted you to it's immaturity, too bad!

Stardock offers one of the most customer interactive and open development processes among a gaming company you'll come across.  Only one other company I know of (Paradox Interactive, also a small shop) can make similar claims.  Call those of us who recognize this 'fanboys' or whatever, but those are facts.  If that's not enough to satisfy you and allow for some time to improve the game, then go buy the latest graphics packed clone from those mouth breathing imbeciles at Atari or EA or whatever other brain dead no-innovation-permitted gaming behemoth, and piss off!

People are just fired up with various degrees of disappointment.  That and, well, it being the internet and all - people without the social wherewithal to actually leave the house and converse with another human being without causing a violent incident or wetting themselves have free reign to be as big of a tool as they want.

As for the whole "well I'm having tons of fun so it is awesome" type stuff - good ... I'm happy for you.  Some people really loved the movie Transformers 2 as well.  That doesn't mean that it was a good movie, it just means that they personally enjoyed it.  It doesn't change the fact that I think it is a horrible movie (as do most people) and it shouldn't detract those who loved it (and Michael Bay). Some people have different standards for what they consider "fun" or "good" ... nothing wrong with that.

People are entitled to their own opinions and preferences.  Just because we are all fans of 4x games doesn't mean we're going to enjoy the same ones.  I think 10% of the forum are fanboys starting trouble, 10% are "haters" starting trouble, and 80% of us are caught in the crossfire feeling differing degrees of "disappointment."  Sadly there is no way to remove that 20% easily ... so we're stuck with them.  BTW, they won't read your post and calm down or act nice .. they're here to argue and start trouble with their counterparts.  (I point to the post directly above mine as a prime example.)

Many people's feelings are so raw because they had high hopes and/or purchased the game based on previews and promises and hype and are now hurt.  Others are upset because they picked up the box in a store, read about the features (MP being the biggest one) and found out that it isn't there.  Those people have a case for false advertising, I'm sure, until MP is in (which is probably why it is being stuffed in ASAP).

@Sinful

And I'm totally with you there.   I've just noticed a habit from a lot of the more vitriolic posters that basically insists that it's absolutely impossible for anybody to derive enjoyment from their purchase, for no other reason, apparently, than the fact that they are upset about it.   And they want others to feel that way.

There is of course the other half that can't seem to accept the fact that the former group is dissatisfied, and both sides won't accept the other side's opinions because they evidently lack the sense of self to stand behind their own conclusions, and require the validation of a third party to feel good about their own opinions.   Or they, well, just get a kick out of arguing.

I, perhaps as a minority, feel that it's all not such a big deal.

And if it is to any individual, well, the truth is, it's a game that has some problems.   They are problems that are, on numerous occasions stated by developers with a proven track record of post-release support for previous products,  going to be addressed.  Whining or praising isn't going to accelerate that process any.  Upset at your loss of $50 to a game you consider incomplete?  It's not a huge sum in any event, and I've been burned by developers who cut their losses and moved on more times than I can count, and at least here I have a reasonable expectation of getting what I ultimately want in time.  It's not the end of the world.

I am pretty certain that anybody capable of watching the news, reading it, or even looking outside is capable of casually observing that there are far more important problems to direct all that energy toward.

And Transformers 2 was abominable. 

I am in the camp of I have very little time to mod as I have school coming up and a new job. I think the mod potential literally solves any of the lack of content or bug issues. Bug fixing is great practice for fixing bugs in my mods. Lack of content is irrelevant as I am the only one qualified to really decide what kind of content I want. I am a strong believer in user created content and this game's faults are my advantage. Part of the problem I had modding GC2 was that to change trade values to a resonable source of income meant an hour of modding the default races and that doesn't include any Buglords or fallen Imperial Confederates. Not to mention trying to find a way to let Cybermen gain population from battles or making the Timelords. How do I make a TBS game do time travel?

This game lets me do what I want to make the game my own and I hope we can all share our creations to enjoy a neverending saga of unique gameplay. My camp is the collectivist modder camp and we were ironically delighted when the launch presented what it did. As I sat in tall leather chair, stroking a white feline, my manservant and genious coder exclaimed, "here is something we can work with!" We then laughed maniacally for a short time and retired to the drawing room.

I have been avoiding sharing that but now seemed seemly.