good job man!

Just wanted to post a thank you for this mod.  I started a game on a large size (196x196) map last night, and it looks well set up so far.  getting the program to run and load the map to Elemental was easy.  Now I just need to play with the sliders and see what they do

One suggestion. The land in the official maps is already painted (desert/winter/grassland/swamp/evil/and so on)

Would it be possible to include such areas in the program? Right now, it's basically just a huge world that is barren, and it only comes alive with different types of terrain when the civs start expanding. It looks a bit bland in the beginning!

When I first heard that Elemental would take place on a 'dead' world I really did worry that it would kill the exploration game, and it kinda does in some ways. Exploring a dead world is just not very compelling, and it's hard to make it compelling. I'm not sure that is helped much by adding the terrain types that fictionally are supposed to come from life or death magic. I left them out specifically so that you could feel yourself having an impact on the world as is supposed to happen according to the story. I know that SD's included maps do have these terrains placed, but that doesn't make sense to me. I feel like they just kinda worried about a bland map and so threw that in at the last minute hoping the map would be more interesting somehow.

I would feel better about putting them in if there was a reason for that kind of magic to be present there. Like maybe I could pretend that an earth shard or fire shard could spread a small area of death magic and the other two spreading life magic. The current problem with that is that those things are placed automatically and you can't control them. Once I can get control of how things are placed on the map, I can then do alot more interesting things.

I can also add snow add some point when I come up with some rules for snow placement, but before I add anything else, I'm going to have to redesign the interface. I'll eventually have to have more screens for things like resource placement and the various forces that control snow, swamp and desert etc. I'll start that once I see that I do have control of these things. I'm gonna have to split my time between this and Civ5. You know I'n not missing out on that!

Personally, I could care less about the fiction.  I haven't read the book.  I want a game that is pleasant to look at.  Ugly terrain adds nothing to the game play aspect.  My 2 cents for what it's worth.

Yeah, I definitely agree there.  Let Stardock make the "dead world" maps in their official campaigns, I want a beautiful world to explore in my random maps.

A suggestion, sorry if it has already been mentioned. You should introduce a template system, I mean user can save settings with a name (e.g. "Medium islands" or "Large continents"). And you may provide some well tuned pre-made templates with program, too.

And a question: how about rivers?

Otherwise: your work is very appreciated, congratulation.

Curiously, coreworldresources.xml actually has tags to change the environment after resources are placed. However, these appears not to function. So that is already being "worked on" from Stardocks side.

I don't know much about the lore, really. I tend to think of the Elemental post-apocalypse world as "broken" rather than "burned", if that makes any sense.

Edit: for example, a water shard has

        <EnvironmentType>ArcticEnvironment</EnvironmentType>
        <EnvironmentSpreadIntensity>5.0</EnvironmentSpreadIntensity>
        <EnvironmentSpreadRadius>1</EnvironmentSpreadRadius>

Yeah it's probably pretty annoying to have to repeat your settings every time. I'll see if I can get around to that.

I'm not so sure about the rivers. I know how to make really nice river networks and I've done so for other projects, but I really don't like the way these river props look. For one thing, they are 3D objects that are designed to run along a flat map, and these maps that I'm making are bumpy. Making a river network is not a trivial undertaking, and my enthusiasm is definately dampened by the fact that no matter what I do it's just gonna look really bad and out of place. Don't forget I'm not Stardock, I do this for fun.

That's interesting, I'm thinking that a radius of 1 would not show up. 5 or 6 might be cool. I don't supposed you've fiddled with it? That's actually one way I would like to handle the different terrains. Realistic weather doesn't make sense in this universe, it's all cause by magic.

As for the fiction, even if you don't really buy into it, you guys don't think it's cool that you are the one making the environment what it is? The one thing I do like about the barrenness is that I feel like I'm making something when I play. It seems boring to me to start as a kingdom on land that is already grassland.

No, I don't. I was just interested in your thoughts about rivers, and thanks your answer.

Actually, influence "changing" the land is one of the coolest features of the game, in my opinion.

Can you imagine there was a time when influence didn't affect what resources you could build on? That was like... two months ago.

I tried playing around with the tags, but I'm not getting anything from them.

Yeah it looks like they abandoned that. I noticed that the fire shard has no such entries. It's probably because it looked a bit goofy to have circles of terrain all over the map. If I do something like that I'll have to break it up somehow so it looks good. Maybe I can slow the expansion on mountains and hills so it at least has a natural looking shape.

I sure hope 1.08 includes some XML tags so you can prevent random spawns.

I think the rivers are broken currently, last time I played around with them in the map editor they were really clunky and they don't seem to exit to the ocean, so when you place em on on a tile that is next to the ocean (cliff, beach) they dont get connected and looks really ugly. During beta it was stated that they were broken and maybe they still need to fix it some? I think this was for 1.06 so if they fixed for 1.07 ignore this :s.

Holy shit, I just realized you did PerfectWorldDF... I thought it looked familiar!

Thanks for all your hard work. Making games more fun to play.

Thanks, Hehe. Yeah the only reason I was able to get this out in a week was because I had most of the code all ready to go.

I have some ideas for resource placement, but I'm waiting on a patch that will allow me to control resource placement. Currently I can't figure out how to stop the game from placing random resources.

We can only hope that the Dev's would help out here, since the Random Map feature is sorely missed in the game.

Sounds like they need to release some more code in a future patch to help out with some map functions...

The campaign doesn't place resource nodes, but when you load the campaign map in a custom game, it places the nodes. So the campaign mode of the game has a special feature which isn't part of the XML in the map.

Thanks for creating this. Curious, what's all this about noise? You don't hear maps, so what does it mean?

Hi cephalo.

Did you write down an explanation of Elemental's map xml format? I had started one in the beta forums but the thread being lost somewhere, I never got back to it. I remember puzzling over what looked like duplicate information in many places.

Regarding duplicate resources, do you mean the game adds resources on top of those you put (I suppose near sovereign starting positions)?

Last, did you try to get Brad to include your map gen algo in the game or to open up a *** API so we can do it in-game? Seeing the map before playing has always been a big no for me.

This is what Publish Random Map is for.  It saves a random map from your prying eyes.

Wonderful!

One question: on the large maps I often get an out of memory error - I'm assuming this will increase with a huge map? (256x256)

Thanks - awesome mod - makes the game have the epic feel it should!

Everything I know about the format I learned from that post. I used your posting history to see if you might have known anything. Jackpot! There's actually still a ton that I don't understand. The duplicate information is probably something like 'what it looks like in 3D' or 'is it passable' vs. 'what does it look like on the cloth map' just in case you want that functionality separate down the line. That is a total guess btw. The ForestData has the number 1.2000 I don't know why it has that I just copied it.

I haven't been able to fully understand whats going on. The game places many resources beyond simply around starting areas. I thought it even removed some that I placed, though I can't seem to repeat that. I can't figure out how to control it.

Nah, I figure this guys had their hands full. Having a good map is alot more important than alot of game devs realize, but there's alot more to a fun game then that, and SD has alot of work to do. I didn't dream that they had time to expose an API within the next 6 months, so I figured I would experiment a bit with the possibilities. I wasn't even going to show anyone except I kinda liked my results.

Also, as someone pointed out, you can publish a map without seeing it. The workflow is that you find some settings that you like, hit the 'Randomize!' button repeatadly so you can verify that you have a stable formula, and then press 'Publish Random Map' which will hide the result from you.

Thanks for the compliments! Yeah 256x256 is meant to be the 'rediculously huge beyond what any sane person would want' option. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't even work on any existing computer. I just didn't want to be the one setting limits on that.

Here, this should explain everything. Perlin Noise.

It's my new toy.