GaelicVigil

Why I chose Elemental over Civ 5

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Why I chose Elemental over Civ 5

from Elemental Forums

Money has been tight lately, as most of you can probably understand in our current economic climate.  Having always been a TBS fan, I had to make a decision as to which game I would buy this fall.  I've been anticipating Civilization 5 and Elemental for quite some time, but I had to go with the latter, and I still don't regret it.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm getting pretty tired of the Civilization series.  It's starting to remind me of Madden: Release the same game, add a few features, and call it the best thing since sliced bread.  I've played every one of them, and every spin off since Civ 1 and the whole tour through history bit is getting a bit long in the tooth for me.

So I'm left with Elemental, which kind of feels like the old pick-up truck your dad gave you.  It doesn't exactly run all that great, needs a new set of...well, everything, and doesn't impress your friends all that much.  So would I rather take the old pick-up truck that can potentially take me to places I've never been before, or do I stick with Civilization, my shiny ten-speed that's always been safe and reliable my whole life?

I've read all the reviews, seen all the crap hit the fan, and even felt a bit of disappointment in the past few weeks.  However, there's something about this game that just gets me excited, something unique, and something I don't feel very often with games.  Even with all of the bugs and problems this game has, it has something special that I can't quite explain.  With Stardock's commitment to improve things, I am giddy with anticipation as to where we will be led in the next few months and years.  It's expecting the unexpected with Elemental that is holding my interest.  It's hoping that perhaps one day Elemental will defy it's launch in a way that we have never seen before.

I'm sure that Civilization 5 will get reviewed really well, I'm sure it will be everything that everyone has hoped it would be.  I'm sure it will be polished, stable, and relatively bug-free.  I'm sure, at the core of it all, it will still feel like the Civilization we've grown to love.  Unfortunately, this is where I become bored.  I'll take the old pickup-truck, but I'm not sure why.

Perhaps Trinity had the answer: Because you have been down there Neo, you know that road, you know exactly where it ends. And I know that's not where you want to be.

elemental
1,300,575 views 402 replies
Reply #151 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting falconne2, reply 149
I'm dubious about it too. I'm all for tactical warfare on hexes, but I think it should be fought out on a separate tactical screen. It doesn't make sense, scalewise, to have the tactical warfare on the strategy map. A hex is big enough to hold a city, so it's big enough to hold an army, not just some archers or tanks. They should have gone with limited size stacks, with a tactical mode similar to AoW:SM. To be honest I wish they'd gone all out and done army creation and proper tactical combat Hearts of Iron style.

Some scale abstraction is acceptable for me, I don't care about realism that much. Tactical combat would complicate things too much, also I think 1 unit per hex is good because it makes the terrain matter, because it forces the player to utilize a large portion of it during wars.

Reply #152 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting falconne2, reply 149
They should have gone with limited size stacks, with a tactical mode similar to AoW:SM.

Or Elemental? ;)  

Anyway, everything is abstracted in these kinds of games anyway, so it doesn't bother me much when things don't completely line up with reality.

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Reply #153 from Stardock Forums Top

I never thought tactical warfare was one of the series talking points. Its ATT v DEF thats it. What it has lacked there it abounds in micromanaging city resources, technology progression and diplomacy.

In Civ 4 I always strive ftw via Space Race.

Reply #154 from Stardock Forums Top

Oops.  Just saw the demo video for civ 5.  IT LOOKS AWESOME!  WAAAANTTTT!

Reply #156 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Mtn_Man, reply 152

Or Elemental?  

Anyway, everything is abstracted in these kinds of games anyway, so it doesn't bother me much when things don't completely line up with reality.

 

I always wonder how you are enjoying playing Elemental so much, seeing as how you're spending so much time in most threads, 3+ times per page, spouting about how great it is to combat every person who says they're not enjoying it. :p  You alt-tab back and forth (without crashing) or have a dual-monitor setup? |-)

 

 

Anyway, back on topic:  I shelved Elemental until the "big patch" coming.  I'll give it another shot then.  ATI + x64, and I got bored as well because I feel there was depth issues.

 

I enjoy every Civ game I've gotten, and have been a fan of the series since the first one (I remember staying up nights alternating between Civ, Colonization, and SimCity games).  I got Civ4 on release, and did not have any problems with it, I must have been one of the lucky ones from the sounds of it.  I'm not too sure how I feel about the stack changes ... I'll wait and see, or play the demo first and find out if I get sucked in or not.

Reply #157 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm really looking forward to Civ 5. I'm also still looking forward to future versions of Elemental, say version 1.3 or so. The other strategy game I'm playing right now is Victoria 2 (which incidently also needs a good balance patch). These three games should keep me contentedly busy for the next year. It's been a great quarter for strategy game fans!

Reply #158 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Istari, reply 7

Quoting wynams, reply 3cuz hex maps, AAA level polish and working multiplayer out of the box suck amirite?
Enough "wynams". You don't have Civ V and I suspect you don't have Elemental.

 

I agree, I'll play both. Elemental and Civ arn't really competition for each other one is high fantasy & magic one is historical fiction.

Reply #159 from Elemental Forums Top

I just found out that one of the civilizations (Babylon) will be sold as an 'extra' if you pay more money. Charging for a key component of the game? What a joke. I hope Civ 5 crashes and burns <X3

Reply #160 from Elemental Forums Top

I will ultimately want both games.  If money was really tight for me, and with the benefit of hindsight regarding the state of Elemental's release, I would have bought Civ V first (because I am confident that will be fun right out of the box) and waited to pick up Elemental when I could afford it.

As it stands, Elemental is sitting mostly idle as I wait until I feel it is more complete than it is now.  I've started playing several games of Elemental and I do see its potential for greatness, but so far I not really "had fun" with Elemental.  I don't mind having paid for it before I can enjoy playing it to support Stardock (that was why I pre-ordered it afterall), but if purchasing Elemental had meant I would not have enough money to buy Civ V when it first released, I would have been very unhappy (because I am currently without a game that I really enjoy playing).

Reply #161 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting marlowwe, reply 159
I just found out that one of the civilizations (Babylon) will be sold as an 'extra' if you pay more money. Charging for a key component of the game? What a joke. I hope Civ 5 crashes and burns

 


DLC is DLC.  One civilization isn't really a "key component" of the game.  It isn't like they're making you pay extra for MP, or the ability to research techs.

Reply #162 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Sinful01, reply 156
I always wonder how you are enjoying playing Elemental so much, seeing as how you're spending so much time in most threads, 3+ times per page, spouting about how great it is to combat every person who says they're not enjoying it.   You alt-tab back and forth (without crashing) or have a dual-monitor setup?

Because we all know it doesn't take mere seconds to submit a post to a message board.  And this being one of only a few threads I'm actively participating in, we're talking possibly minutes out of my day.  How in the world do I find time for anything else?  It's one of the world's greatest mysteries.

Reply #163 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting marlowwe, reply 159
I just found out that one of the civilizations (Babylon) will be sold as an 'extra' if you pay more money. Charging for a key component of the game? What a joke. I hope Civ 5 crashes and burns

Well, I hate the idea of buyable extra content too. With that being said, I'm not sure if the ability to play Babylon is really a "key component of the game". The game has plenty of empires already, far more then you can have in any single game. I don't believe that Babylon was ever in any previous edition of Civilzation either and somehow we survived.

Reply #164 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Mtn_Man, reply 162

Because we all know it doesn't take mere seconds to submit a post to a message board.

Well, true, if we're just talking about regurgitating the same stock lines in response to anything said that is contrary to our preconceived beliefs ... then yes, I can see how it would take mere seconds. 

 

Child 1 says, to Child 2: "I don't like this new chocolate ice cream."  Random person leaps in and shouts "The new chocolate is the best, I don't know how anyone can't like new chocolate.  New chocolate is the most fun type of ice cream I've ever had!"  Then, random person ducks behind the counter and waits to leap in when the next discussion to start up.

 

They should just make a sticky:  "Not having fun with Elemental? - Disappointed? - Wish it was better?"  And you can have the first response, telling us all about how great you personally feel it is :p

 

Eh, that wasn't sporting of me, I'm sorry.  You just remind me of someone I used to know, who I did not get along swimmingly with in a past life.

Reply #165 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Sinful01, reply 164
You just remind me of someone I used to know, who I did not get along swimmingly with in a past life.

I'm sure you'll get over it.

Reply #166 from Elemental Forums Top

Civ 5 combat reminds me of advance wars.  No need or desire yet I'm probably going to buy it anyway when Civ5 bts comes out.

Reply #168 from Elemental Forums Top


DLC is DLC.  One civilization isn't really a "key component" of the game.  It isn't like they're making you pay extra for MP, or the ability to research techs.

Well, I hate the idea of buyable extra content too. With that being said, I'm not sure if the ability to play Babylon is really a "key component of the game". The game has plenty of empires already, far more then you can have in any single game. I don't believe that Babylon was ever in any previous edition of Civilzation either and somehow we survived.

Considering that the name of the game has 'civilization' in it, I'd imagine ANY civilization would be a key part of the game. And if a civilization is not a key component of the game, then what the hell are we playing? From a designer's point of view how can a Civ game be good when you can just cut and paste different Civs in and out without it affecting the whole game dynamic?

Imagine if Diablo 3 came out with a fourth class but you'd have to pay extra to play it. Sure you don't need to have access to that fourth class but Diablo is all about playing, leveling, and gearing out the different classes. Having to pay for one, even if it's "extra" , makes me feel like I am playing an incomplete game. Do you see what I'm talking about?

If Firaxis absolutely had to have some sort of DLC in the game then why not have people pay for random crap like new skins or some stupid in-game pet. God knows there players out there that would pay for that kind of "content".

Reply #169 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting marlowwe, reply 168
Considering that the name of the game has 'civilization' in it, I'd imagine ANY civilization would be a key part of the game. And if a civilization is not a key component of the game, then what the hell are we playing? From a designer's point of view how can a Civ game be good when you can just cut and paste different Civs in and out without it affecting the whole game dynamic?

Imagine if Diablo 3 came out with a fourth class but you'd have to pay extra to play it. Sure you don't need to have access to that fourth class but Diablo is all about playing, leveling, and gearing out the different classes. Having to pay for one, even if it's "extra" , makes me feel like I am playing an incomplete game. Do you see what I'm talking about?

If Firaxis absolutely had to have some sort of DLC in the game then why not have people pay for random crap like new skins or some stupid in-game pet. God knows there players out there that would pay for that kind of "content".

I disagree. It's normal that there are many civilizations in the game, and not all must be in the same game - usually you play games on random maps with a random set of civilizations, and usually it's less than 18 civs (the total number in Civ5 without DLCs). So some of them are missing, but the game isn't "incomplete" because of that. I'm not going to buy any DLCs, and I still think I'll enjoy the game with 18 available civs.

Reply #170 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting marlowwe, reply 168



Considering that the name of the game has 'civilization' in it, I'd imagine ANY civilization would be a key part of the game. And if a civilization is not a key component of the game, then what the hell are we playing? From a designer's point of view how can a Civ game be good when you can just cut and paste different Civs in and out without it affecting the whole game dynamic?

Well you could cut and paste different civs in and out in every previous version of civ too. You could argue that the civs don't feel unique enough, and that would be fair. But the point is for them to  feel just a little bit different from each other, but for the major differences to come from the map, your opponents and how you play the game. It's unclear to me if you've actually played civ and to what extent you understand the current differences between civilzations in Civ 4, but they primarily boil down to a few triats chosen from a pool of traits. Early visions of civilization did not even have this, differences between kingdoms mostly boiled down to graphics.

So yeah an extra civilization really is more the equivellent to an extra skin then anything else. I'm sure Babylon could just as easily be created with the mod tools provided with the game too if you need it that badly.

Reply #171 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Mtn_Man, reply 108



Quoting greggbert,
reply 107
Firaxis can craft excellent games with a high degree of quality.


That's not always true.  Civilization 4 had some serious problems at launch that took several patches and expansions to completely sort out (and even then there are still some outstanding quirks that Civ fanatics grumble about to this day).  Sid Meier's Railroads needed a patch to address performance issues that made it virtually unplayable late game, and it really could have used a second patch, but when it didn't sell as well as they hoped, they cut support and moved on to their next project.  With Civ 5 being a massive and massively complex game that adds a ton of new features and play mechanics, I expect that it, too, will have some growing pains.  Probably not as extreme as Elemental, but anybody expecting Civ 5 to be perfect out of the box is only setting themselves up for disappointment.

Yeah but the Civ games are so good it's usually pretty easy to look past the occassional crash.  As I gladly would have for Elemental.  Hell it could have crashed every 10 minutes, if it were actually a GOOD GAME.  I would have been frustrated, of course, but only because I couldn't play it and enjoy it's awesomeness.  The reviewers would have overlooked it too and given it at least an 8/10.  But Elemental is awful.  You can't patch awful.  Most likely, you'll all be playing Civ5 in 2-3 weeks and these boards will be a wasteland.

 

 

Reply #172 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting marlowwe, reply 168
Considering that the name of the game has 'civilization' in it, I'd imagine ANY civilization would be a key part of the game. And if a civilization is not a key component of the game, then what the hell are we playing? From a designer's point of view how can a Civ game be good when you can just cut and paste different Civs in and out without it affecting the whole game dynamic?

If the game is properly balanced then the civs should be more or less interchangeable without throwing everything out of whack.

My biggest problem with the preorder bonuses is that since they don't cost anything extra then they should be made available to everybody free of charge.

Reply #173 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting dirtforker, reply 171
Most likely, you'll all be playing Civ5 in 2-3 weeks and these boards will be a wasteland.

In other words, the haters will be gone leaving the rest of us in peace. :D

Reply #174 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Mtn_Man, reply 173



Quoting dirtforker,
reply 171
Most likely, you'll all be playing Civ5 in 2-3 weeks and these boards will be a wasteland.


In other words, the haters will be gone leaving the rest of us in peace.

Oh I just love your line of thinking. Let's take fans of a rather small genre and try and split them up into little factions so we can all treat each other like crap. Any other bright ideas?

Reply #175 from Elemental Forums Top

So I guess you want the Civ 5 fanboys clogging up the forums with useless trolling... :shrug: