Soldiers Speak Out against the Iraq War

A Veteran"s Agony

http://www.ivaw.net
from JoeUser Forums
The subject raised in my blog "Iraq Again: The Human Cost of Taking Fallujah" raised a range of issues. I begin by making it clear that I am not being critical or unduly judgemental. If some of the responses to my writing seemed too defensive, all I can say that it is not my intention to give aid and succour to Islamic Terrorists. Ilook upon this issue as a crisis in which ordinary Iraqi men and women and children are trying to cope in the most trying of circumstances.

Michael Hoffman has been writing about his expriences in Iraq. He is a war veteran and he has said and I quote:

"These are the thoughts that keep me up at night:the bodies of children and the burned remains of Iraqi troops that (sic)couldn't get out in time.
But those who putall of us there will never understand this. That is why they need to be judged.
But they will never receive the most just punishemnt: feeling what myself and all other veterans of this hedious war will deal with for the rest of our lives"

These are powerful words. They have been spoken by a man who faught and is a witness to that unspeakble war.
politics
2,800 views 5 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
You wrote: "The subject raised in my blog "Iraq Again: The Human Cost of Taking Fallujah" raised a range of issues. I begin by making it clear that I am not being critical or unduly judgmental....These are powerful words. They have been spoken by a man who fought and is a witness to that unspeakable war."

It's not unusual, when passionate about a subject, to find ourselves contradicting our intentions.

If you would take the time, I'd be interested in hearing your view, were you say National Security adviser to Pres. Bush, on how to handle the present situation in Fallujah, and in Iraq in general.

The following is an Ass. Press excerpt:

"Bellon asserted that previous attempts to win trust from Iraqis suspicious of US intentions had telegraphed weakness by asking,” 'What are your needs? What are your emotional needs?' All this Oprah [stuff]," he said. "They want to figure out who the dominant tribe is and say, 'I'm with you.' We need to be the benevolent, dominant tribe.... They're never going to like us," he added, echoing other Marine commanders who cautioned against raising hopes that Fallujans would warmly welcome troops when they return to ruined houses and rubble-strewn streets. The goal, Bellon said, is "mutual respect."

It is my understanding that the Arabic mu means 'safety' and that the verb afah means 'to protect' : mu afah would therefore refer to the Mafia seen as a clan offering protection to its members. What fills a power vacuum in a place such as Fallujah?


Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

"Bellon asserted that previous attempts to win trust from Iraqis suspicious of US intentions had telegraphed weakness by asking,” 'What are your needs? What are your emotional needs?' All this Oprah [stuff]," he said. "They want to figure out who the dominant tribe is and say, 'I'm with you.' We need to be the benevolent, dominant tribe.... They're never going to like us," he added, echoing other Marine commanders who cautioned against raising hopes that Fallujans would warmly welcome troops when they return to ruined houses and rubble-strewn streets. The goal, Bellon said, is "mutual respect."

It is my understanding that the Arabic mu means 'safety' and that the verb afah means 'to protect' : mu afah would therefore refer to the Mafia seen as a clan offering protection to its members. What fills a power vacuum in a place such as Fallujah?


while i feel bahu virupaksha has seriously misperceived the options available to american troops on the ground in iraq,  the person youve quoted (bellon? is there a national security advisor bellon?) seems to be saying we've erred by not emulating saddam and the baathists--or any fairly well-run street or prison gang--in establishing a new society based the law of the pack.  (im not sure if you intended your abbreviation of associated press to be sarcastic but either way it's apropo in regard to the exerpt you provided.  a link woulda have been appreciated as well btw).

you also managed to once again to dredge up that bizarre mafia conspiracy connection thing you find so intriguing. i may be able to fill in a few gaps.  have you noticed that in many countries where english isnt the national tongue, iraq is spelled 'irak'? it puzzlled me til i remembered that cleopatra is the anglicized version of Kleopatra and from there the rest just jumped out at me  Italia Rakketeerio Antipasto Kleopatra.   see how it all fits together?  as the italian occupiers of ethiopia were forced to flee by the allies, the mafia dons whod set up shop after salassi's defeat decided to cool their heels in egypt til the sandstorm settled.  as it turned out, they overshot egypt and wound up in irak.  determined not to lose respetti, they put out word they'd intentionally chosen iraq because what kinda country would letta broad be king?

Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
There have been in every conflict, and will be in every conflict to come, participants who are personally revulsed by the experience and who write about it. Their opinion carries no more weight than the opinion of any other participant, and those with such opinions appear to be members of a small minority. The "human side" of a war is always horrible. Watching those poor folks leaping from the 90th floor of the WTC was horrible. The days of gentleman armies squaring off under mutual rules of engagement well away from innocent civilians are long gone. If the terrorists weren't using civilian homes and places of worship for cover, fewer civilians would be in harm's way. Who has less regard for civilians - those using them as shields or those trying to liberate them?

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now, Daiwa, don't you know, and don't you understand....that if it wasn't for the empirical, fascist, racist, money-loving America, those innocent, sweet, kind, benevolent Freedom Fighters wouldn't have to use mosques and human shields? I mean, really....get out of your ignorance.

(Daiwa, just in case you don't notice, this post was sarcasm....)
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
lol MythicalMino; I guess in some muslim's view, Islam ( a religion which advocates peace more or less) is all for beheading innocents, killing thier own muslim brothers and sisters in terrorist acts. Yeah, those brave freedom fighters....ohh wait the vast majority of the insurgents currently fighting in Iraq are foreigen fighters lol. I tell you, that is one of the best sarcastic posts that really hits the head of the matter. You are right, these people are doing everything wrong and blame us for cleaning up the mess they make.
oh well, Im with you Daiwa and mythical on this.