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What are the best TB Fantasy RPG/RTSs out there?

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What are the best TB Fantasy RPG/RTSs out there?

from Elemental Forums

I am really enjoying Elemental. However I feel it needs some more work. It just feels like I have to make too many concessions each game and am not really challenged. Also, the simplicity of the tactical battles was a HUGE dispointment and really kills my desire to start a fresh game... I like indie devs, and support this game as well as Darkfall, just so we can have more variety and push the quality of AAA games. I feel like their hands were tied as far as release date and its either support them or see 5 major studios release all of our content.

Anyways, I keep hearing people mention other RTS games like dominion and MoM etc. I would be interested in trying a new game while I wait for Elemental to get polished. One game that seems similar is HOMM5. I REALLY liked the tactical combat, but the overmap and strategy elements fell flat. Can anyone recommend any other games to try, hopefully one that is still rather recent (past 5 years Id say).

Thanks for any suggestions!

 

Oh, also has anyone heard the extent of mods? Could we put something as complex as HOMM tactical battles into Elemtental? How about have dungeons actually load up dungeons that are REALLY long tactical battle maps...

elemental
675,228 views 276 replies
Reply #151 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Gravedancer, reply 151

Quoting solidsmooky, reply 149So Dominions 3 came in the mail today and it owns. It owns so fucking hard. This game rules. Ugh.. why can't Elemental be like this.
Stop it!!  I don't want to spend any more money on games right now.  You're making it difficult.

 

The AI is actually better than I thought. I just lost in the tutorial. lol (I suck)

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Reply #152 from Elemental Forums Top

It took me quite a few turns to have a win in Dominions. :) The pretenders can be devastating.

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #153 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting solidsmooky, reply 152

The AI is actually better than I thought. I just lost in the tutorial. lol (I suck)

You lost in a tutorial?!  Wow... 

Seriously though, that's kind of cool.  Not only do you learn something (hopefully, lol) but it's challenging?!

When you order it and have it shipped, does it include a printed manual in that too?

Reply #154 from Elemental Forums Top

Like I've said in this thread, I'm a big fan of Dom 3. The thing about the AI though is it usually has a one-track mind. As you now know the game is real deep and the number of strategies is off the charts. It's hard to design an AI that can learn all of these, which is understandable. The more games you play, the more you'll see a bit of a pattern. It doesn't ruin the game for me at all. I still enjoy SP, but multi-player mode will give you more excitement

Reply #155 from Elemental Forums Top

Once you figure out how to build army busting thugs and SCs, the AI is pretty helpless.  MP however,,, there is nothing deeper and more complex than a large game of dominions that spans several months.

Reply #156 from Elemental Forums Top

All my head bashing about stuff missing in Elemental that is present in MOM got me thinking... combined with this thread.

I'm playing the wrooong game. ;)

MOM all the way! Make sure you have the patch 1.3.1 for maximum enjoyment :)

Cheers!

V

Reply #157 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Gravedancer, reply 154



Quoting solidsmooky,
reply 152

The AI is actually better than I thought. I just lost in the tutorial. lol (I suck)


You lost in a tutorial?!  Wow... 

Seriously though, that's kind of cool.  Not only do you learn something (hopefully, lol) but it's challenging?!

When you order it and have it shipped, does it include a printed manual in that too?

Indeed, you will get an awesome manual as well. [300+ pages IIRC] It's probably amongst the top5 game manuals of all time.

Reply #158 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tormy-, reply 158

Quoting Gravedancer, reply 154


Quoting solidsmooky,
reply 152

...
When you order it and have it shipped, does it include a printed manual in that too?

Indeed, you will get an awesome manual as well. [300+ pages IIRC] It's probably amongst the top5 game manuals of all time.

I think it is by far the best manual ever written for a game. I heard about it (the manual) but didn't think much of the in-game screen shots. In the end it was the manual that swung me to buy it.

Reply #159 from Elemental Forums Top

294 pages !  :grin:

Reply #160 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting solidsmooky, reply 149
So Dominions 3 came in the mail today and it owns. It owns so fucking hard. This game rules. Ugh.. why can't Elemental be like this.

 

Yeah, elemental could take a lot from this game.  

I love the pre-battle laying out of troops. That alone would double my enjoyment of elemental. 

I also love the concept of 'searching' squares for magic sites.. .or resources.... or goody shacks?

Reply #161 from Elemental Forums Top

There are best games of the genre like MOM of course, but, there are only 3 best overall AI and AI adjustment games. Those are:

AOW:origional (you could set each ai to a different type of play from passive, to aggressive, to torch n burn to defensive and offensive or you could set each one to random and the game would pick a play pattern for them every game. Too bad the AI in AOW:O liked to build too many siege engines and run up and down the roads back n forth.

HOMM II: This is the best of that series because you could set EACH AI from Dunce to Expert and also set a level of difficulty besides. Later games of the series from HOMM III onward you are only able to set the difficulty.

Warlords III: This is another one you could set the AI play type from aggressive to offensive or torch n burn etc. The Warlords series has the best AI of all of them actually. The bad thing about the Warlords AI though is it really never protected its Heroes/Leader units and many times would march around the map with them solo. I've seen it have the clear advantage and could have won the game because it had built up a good hereo only to seperate it from its dragon stack to be destroyed by me or some ruin by itself.

While Elemental does have different difficulty settings for each individual AI as well as an overall difficulty setting it doesn't provide to set each individual ai a characteristic settig like aggressive, passive, offensive, defensive, torch n burn. I'd really like to see those elements in this game. The torch n burn ai can be the most devestating as they raze everything in their path.

Reply #162 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting searro, reply 160
294 pages ! 

So my "IIRC" was almost correct. :D [I was lazy to open the box...:P]

Reply #163 from Elemental Forums Top

I have the manual for Dominions 3, and a serial key, but the CD got scratched by the cat, and Shrapnel has been most unhelpful when I tried to get a replacement a couple years ago. From what I gathered, this was mostly because I had purchased the game from a German retailer that they apparently didn't "like" (or had issues with, i.e. didn't provide Shrapnel with customer information). It didn't matter that I had the actual manual *and* the serial key and really only needed a download link. :) Rather than downloading a pirated version, I just dropped the matter and didn't play the game (new machine, didn't have it installed).

I haven't bought another Shrapnel game ever since. The game may be good, the level of customer service I received from the publisher left a bad taste in my mouth. It may just have been an exception, though.

Reply #164 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting niteshade6, reply 97



Quoting Das123,
reply 96
Did they ever make a random map generator for Elven Legacy? I bought the original and one of the upgrades but without random maps I quickly lost interest.



Seems like an odd game to have random maps, it's a campaign/story game rather then a sandbox 4x game.

That is why I stopped play Elven Legacy. There was no 'sandlot' mode. It was just a lineir campaign (I don't like lineir games)

I loved the combat and all but if you loose a senario then you have to keep replaying it again and again until you win. But if this game ever got 'sandox' mode then I will play it again

Reply #165 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting OliverFA, reply 102



Quoting silverpaladin,
reply 93
I agree with all of the posts here.  My favorites of those listed are:

Heroes of Might and Magic 3 - This is TBS perfection



Well, not perfection, but definitely the most perfect that has ever been achieved in this kind of games. I think that was has been said about MoM also applies to Heroes III. It's a pitty that after 11 years it still has not been superated by any other game. Specially having several clones (Disciples, Etherlords, HOMM5...). At least MOM does not have any successors. But HOMM3 has many wannabe successors that could not superate it, despite there is still a lot of room for improvement.

Some of the clones are Ok. HOMM 5 started bad in vanilla, but after two expansions that fixed several gameplay issues is a good game. But not as good as HOMM3. The thing is that, despite existing HOMM5, I sometimes come back to HOMM3.

Looks like HOMM6 is reinventing the wheel and somehow I feel this won't end well...

It is a matter of opinon. I think that AOW:SM while honoring MOM on many levels did surpass it. And it is IMHO a better game than HOMM3 or for that matter any other Fantasy TBS game out there.

Reply #166 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Mistwraithe, reply 121



Quoting Ellestar,
reply 117
Birthright: Gorgon's Alliance is an old fantasy TBS with some optional RPG elements. It's a computer version of the Birthright setting for Dungeons and Dragons TRPG.


I had the impression that Birthright was very buggy and unbalanced (rather like Elemental) and never really got fixed (hopefully not like Elemental). A cursory play of something (a demo?) reinforced this conclusion so I never played it further.


Am I wrong about Birthright? Should I be trying it out? It certainly sounded like a game that should interest me.

Actully it was a good game however it did have a few bugs that never got fixed.

Reply #167 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Bellack, reply 167



Quoting Mistwraithe,
reply 121



Quoting Ellestar,
reply 117
Birthright: Gorgon's Alliance is an old fantasy TBS with some optional RPG elements. It's a computer version of the Birthright setting for Dungeons and Dragons TRPG.


I had the impression that Birthright was very buggy and unbalanced (rather like Elemental) and never really got fixed (hopefully not like Elemental). A cursory play of something (a demo?) reinforced this conclusion so I never played it further.


Am I wrong about Birthright? Should I be trying it out? It certainly sounded like a game that should interest me.



Actully it was a good game however it did have a few bugs that never got fixed.

"few"? It was like ToEE [bugfest], however the huge community mod for ToEE fixed the bugs / enhanced the gameplay at least. [Which is why I say ToEE + community mod = best cRPG] Birthright had huge potential, but it's failed due to the lack of support.

Reply #168 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting solidsmooky, reply 149
So Dominions 3 came in the mail today and it owns. It owns so fucking hard. This game rules. Ugh.. why can't Elemental be like this.

So how is the learning curb?

 

Reply #169 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Bellack, reply 169

re: dominions3

So how is the learning curb?

Download the demo and give it a try. it's only 90mb or so.
Be sure to read and follow the tutorial (PDF) document so that you
can understand what is going on.

 

Reply #170 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Bellack, reply 169

Quoting solidsmooky, reply 149So Dominions 3 came in the mail today and it owns. It owns so fucking hard. This game rules. Ugh.. why can't Elemental be like this.


So how is the learning curb?

 

 

If you're an uber gamer who's into all the + and -'s and #'s, it's not bad.

For a casual gamer (me) it's tough to get beyond the basic understanding of the mechanics to become an "uber" player. Having said that, I love it.  TRUE difference between races and the spell numbers are just amazing and they're (for the most part) different and relevant.  You can build whole strategies around your God(sovereign) and the race (even age) of the empire you pick that is entirely different from the next guy that picks up the same combination.  

I'd say a dumbed down Version of Dominions that 'feels' more like Elemental would be best for me because I love the looks of Elemental but as of right now, i think I like the mechanics and diversity of Dominions more. 

Reply #171 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Gravedancer, reply 154

Quoting solidsmooky, reply 152
The AI is actually better than I thought. I just lost in the tutorial. lol (I suck)
You lost in a tutorial?!  Wow... 

Seriously though, that's kind of cool.  Not only do you learn something (hopefully, lol) but it's challenging?!

When you order it and have it shipped, does it include a printed manual in that too?

I ordered it from Amazon because it was 50 bucks instead of 55 or whatever. I got it next day.

Reply #172 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting alborrelli, reply 161

Quoting solidsmooky, reply 149So Dominions 3 came in the mail today and it owns. It owns so fucking hard. This game rules. Ugh.. why can't Elemental be like this.
 

Yeah, elemental could take a lot from this game.  

I love the pre-battle laying out of troops. That alone would double my enjoyment of elemental. 

I also love the concept of 'searching' squares for magic sites.. .or resources.... or goody shacks?

 

Yeah I can't believe Elemental doesn't have this. Elemental could use these features and more. Every nation is so different and varied. Jeez Stardock... what the heck?

 

Also the 300 page manual does own.

Reply #173 from Elemental Forums Top

For myself, the top TBS map based (As opposed to just battles like Disgaea, FF Tactics, or even old TBS RPGs) games are:

 

1. Master Of Magic

2. Age Of Wonders 2: Shadow Magic

3. Etherlords 2

4. King's Bounty

5. Etherlords 1

6. Age Of Wonders 1

7. Fantasy General

8. Elemental (Although it definitely has potential to rise through this list)

 

However, also coming out are Armoured Princess: Crossworlds (A beefed up Armoured princess) and Guardians Of Graxia (Which looks interesting, but might be a fantasy Panzer General Allied Assault).

 

I liked HOMM2, but since then, i've started to get very bored with them, the city building was the most dull part which is why i like the RPG elements of King's Bounty much more as it removes it all.

 

Reply #174 from Elemental Forums Top

The problem is you need to play HoMM 3

Reply #175 from Elemental Forums Top

Oh, i played HOMM 3, 4 and 5... But they were really just the same game again.. King's Bounty takes the game and mixes it up a lot, which i love...

 

It's the same with Civ... Civ 1 great, Civ 2, fantastic and then the rest have left me a bit cold as they tend to have the same upgrades and units... I've played more MoM & Etherlords than all the HOMMs or CIVs put together.