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A little worried about some of the articles coming out...

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A little worried about some of the articles coming out...

from Elemental Forums

I know these forums are inhabited by even the most hardened of Stardock fans, and i am one too. But if you love something you can't be blind to criticize it. Already we have a thread saying don't complain so I know how this thread will turn out but i'm really hoping for an actual dialogue that won't be met with rampant fanboyism.

 

Anyway I just read this article and while I know there is a zero day patch coming, i'm a little worried about exactly HOW much they fixed in such a short amount of time. It seems like there are a lot of bugs/typos/mistakes and I think as a paying customer it's okay to say this.

A note from Frogboy on this

Hi guys, 

Let me add some points here:

1. Tom Chick is one of the top gaming journalists in the industry.  He's not just some guy.

2. He is reviewing the gold version (he is NOT playing the day 0 version). I.e. He is NOT playing a beta.

3. While I would quibble with some of the content (yes, we multiply bonuses. We multiplied them in Entrepreneur, we multiplied them in GalCiv, and we multiply them in Elemental and have throughout the beta).

4. I agree with Tom that the Hiergamenon page should make it more clear that those bonuses are being multiplied and that there is a text bug in the description of Educated that was since addressed.

5. The math system under the hood does work as designed, even in the gold version. It's not buggy but I think Tom brings up a valid point that the way it is explained to the player needs work (I think Tom would also agree it's light years ahead of how we "explained" the math in GalCiv II which was, essentially we didn't).

6. This isn't a review, it's a diary.  Please read Tom's other works.  It doesn't mean he hates the game. He is pointing things out that he thinks can be improved in the game and we can all benefit from it.

 

 

 

Anyway here is the article and some snippets:

 

http://fidgit.com/archives/2010/08/elemental_in_a_world_of_dragon.php

 

I'm trying to like Elemental. I really am. But the version I have now, and the version you're probably going to get to start playing tomorrow if you pre-ordered, is in pretty sad shape. A patch should be available by Monday. I hope it's a big patch.

My problem isn't just the way Elemental assumes you know things you would have no way of knowing, or the amateurish mistakes in the interface, or the crashes, or how alt-tabbing kills the game, or the way the Farming Guild increases metal production by 100%, or that I didn't get the leather armor I was promised when I researched it, or even this picture of the dreaded Umberdroth Pack, which either has cloaking technology or is so skinny it can hide behind a palm tree.

Elemental_GD_01_palms.jpg

Actually, maybe the Umberdroth Pack is the palm trees. I suppose there's no reason you can't have a tropical ent.

All those things are frustrating enough. But I'm a bit worried that I simply can't trust the game to do what it says it's doing.


All I ask is for you guys to just read this and not to flip out on me for criticizing or worrying about the game or wondering exactly HOW much this zero-day patch is going to fix.

elemental
291,853 views 145 replies
Reply #126 from Stardock Forums Top

[quote]

Quoting Baleurion,
reply 53
. I was a naive noob a few years ago.. I awaited a little supposedly HUGE ZOMG game called Spore.. It was supposed to be a huge massive living evolving galaxy 4x evolution game. Then the reviews came, and handed it GOTY awards, 9.8 scores, praising it as the coming of christ and all our prayers answered.
It fucking sucked.
 
LOL it did didn't it. hahahahaha I couldn't believe the game I played and couldn't believe I wasted $40 bucks to play it. Wright et al didn't get up to par with that one let's hope THE SIMS MEDIEVAL is much better.
Reply #127 from Elemental Forums Top

*shrugs*
I pre-ordered the game some time ago, have been enjoying the Beta process - even Beta 1 - and am looking forward to coming home form work and downloading the full version to play through.  Release day spelling mistakes, mis-communications and math 'problems' are not new in any form.  Does it make the game 'bad'?  Hardly.  It might mean the game could use some additional polish, however we're not dealing with EA Games or Activision Blizzard here - patches, fixes and updates will arrive.  And if there is something that really, badly bugs me, I'll crack open Elemental's files and damn well make it the way I want it.

ObjectDock - Access shortcuts and frequently used applications from an animated dock.
Reply #128 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm sorry but problems with Alt+TAB are only problem of the application trying to Alt+TAB: the game. The DX API may be more or less cryptic (to each its own), but there's quite a lot documentation explaining how Alt+TAB has to be handled if you don't want crashes.

Reply #129 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting VicenteC, reply 129
I'm sorry but problems with Alt+TAB are only problem of the application trying to Alt+TAB: the game. The DX API may be more or less cryptic (to each its own), but there's quite a lot documentation explaining how Alt+TAB has to be handled if you don't want crashes.

I think it has a lot to do with DX9C though.  Something like the buffers losing their contents when you alt-tab.

DX9 has an enhanced mode in Vista/7 which has improved on it...but of course the game has to use that.  (Naturally, DX10 and 11 don't have that problem either.)

I don't really know the details off the top of my head.

Reply #130 from Elemental Forums Top

I kinda saw this coming. They for some reason really felt the need to rush it out the door. So much was left on the cutting room floor, we didn't even get a finished game... sad. Coulda been so much more.

Reply #131 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting VicenteC, reply 129
I'm sorry but problems with Alt+TAB are only problem of the application trying to Alt+TAB: the game. The DX API may be more or less cryptic (to each its own), but there's quite a lot documentation explaining how Alt+TAB has to be handled if you don't want crashes.

Unless you're trying to work around other bugs in the graphics drivers. 

I think / expect players to confirm this: The game was not rushed. The release version is certainly as solid or more solid than any game we've released in the past.

Reply #132 from Elemental Forums Top

Well i for one am impressed. I don't think it feels rushed in any way. I have been in the beta since Beta1 (and have had many crash issues during certain iterations) and so far i have had no issues/crashes with this release.

Reply #133 from Elemental Forums Top

Well, I'm not exactly happy to read I'm spending $70.00 on a game that sounds like it needed another few weeks of polishing, but I'm looking forward to getting my CE.  I am putting faith in Stardock that any issues will be addressed in a timely manner.  I like supporting indie devs, and sometimes I get burned (Mortal Online).  I just don't get the feeling this will be the case with Elemental.

Reply #134 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting -Pagan-, reply 134
Well, I'm not exactly happy to read I'm spending $70.00 on a game that sounds like it needed another few weeks of polishing, but I'm looking forward to getting my CE.  I am putting faith in Stardock that any issues will be addressed in a timely manner.  I like supporting indie devs, and sometimes I get burned (Mortal Online).  I just don't get the feeling this will be the case with Elemental.
The probability of getting burned with Stardock is, imho, non existant. It may require some patience for some users (and time for Stardock to address the issues) but in the end they make sure to make it worthy (always considering that it's impossible to please everyone?).

Reply #135 from Elemental Forums Top

I believe Stardock is ahead of its time in how to do releases in this connected world. Yes, reviewers and traditionalist will scoff and complain that there might be lacking some polishing and that the game is not 'done'. But in our age, with patches and community feedback, a game like this will never be 'done'. 

I work in in the AAA game industry for a smallish sized studio (150 ppl) with a big publisher - and we do polish and bugfixes for a very long time. The biggest difference here, in my belief, is that once the bugs are out, we move on to the next project. With the backing of a major publisher, you have a set deadline and the budget reflects that. Stardock needs to feed their employees from sales directly, I'm guessing.

But we release and forget - they release and evolve the game with the player in mind, and will do so for years to come. I'm not worried - but, of course, I'd like to play the best game possible. :) If that means I have to wait a few more months to get things polished to a perfect sheen, so be it.

Reply #136 from Elemental Forums Top

I like it quit a bit so far. I am only playing the campaign and only got to play for about an hour and a half. I'm off to bed cause I have a meeting in 7 hours. But after work tomorrow I will really get my teeth sunk in. I wish arrows keys could be used to pan the camera, but that's just a personal preference. So far I love it Brad. :D Runs flawlessly with all your options cranked up as high as they can go. hehe.

Reply #137 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm glad to see that Tom Chick is playing the game, I used to love his articles back in the day... lots of great vs games for strategy games that did not get a ton of press otherwise. Either way bugs or no bugs the game is modable and Stardock is good about patches so it should be pretty smooth real soon.

And of course here I am opining when I have not played it yet... I'm at work and I left it downloading right before leaving. Cant wait to put in an hour or two before going to bed when I get home.

Reply #138 from Elemental Forums Top

I work in in the AAA game industry for a smallish sized studio (150 ppl) with a big publisher - and we do polish and bugfixes for a very long time. The biggest difference here, in my belief, is that once the bugs are out, we move on to the next project.

 

Exactly. I think it is good to go; I'm having fun, and that's the most important thing! Knowing the fact that this game is going to get better and better in the months to come makes it that much better--not to mention the modding community!

Reply #139 from Elemental Forums Top

Played it for a few hours now, the gameplay is amazingly fun as expected. Artwork has improved a ton and everything looks great. However, it has crashed about 6 times now (not alt-tabbing). Yes, x64 / Ati combo, I dont see anything abnormal with memory usage, the game just freezes after a while. 

So minus the freezes, crashes and alt tab issues, the game looks pretty bloody amazing. Personally I think these issues should've been dealt with in the beta, they had been spotted a long long time ago, so I'm just hoping they can fix these issues in a reasonable time frame.

Reply #140 from Elemental Forums Top

And Civ's way of doing things IS standard across most games. Multiplicative bonuses lead to odd things, how do you apply a -20% modifier? You certainly can't just stick -0.2 in the calculation, because the results will make absolutely no sense. Multiplicative bonuses also lead to some of the problems we saw in beta 4, where at one point early in the game food is scarce and then you start stacking bonuses and the scaling explodes to such a degree that food becomes near infinite.

You apply a -20% modifier by multiplying by the constant 0.80.  This will reduce the base value by 20%.  It works just fine, even with stacked multiplicative bonuses.

Reply #141 from Elemental Forums Top

I wish arrows keys could be used to pan the camera
Shift+arrow keys to pan, Ctrl+arrow keys to rotate  :)  Just implemented last Wedensday, so appologies for lack of formal documentation on that one.

Reply #142 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting BoogieBac, reply 142

I wish arrows keys could be used to pan the cameraShift+arrow keys to pan, Ctrl+arrow keys to rotate    Just implemented last Wedensday, so appologies for lack of formal documentation on that one.

What do unmodified arrow keys do?  If they do nothing, then can you map them to map panning?  Because I don't know about you, but I cannot easily SHIFT+arrow with my left hand while my right hand is on the mouse.

Reply #143 from Elemental Forums Top

What do unmodified arrow keys do?

AFAIK they move units (at user request).

Reply #144 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting kryo, reply 144

What do unmodified arrow keys do?


AFAIK they move units (at user request).

I thing that use the keys to move units is totally useless

imho