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Elemental: No Copy Protection, Activation, LAN and more

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Elemental: No Copy Protection, Activation, LAN and more

from JoeUser Forums

There’s been a lot of discussion on these kinds of topics on recent games and I thought I’d give you our perspective on it.

No Copy Protection

Elemental, out of the box, like all of Stardock’s other games, has no copy protection whatsoever.  However, you obviously need Internet access to get updates.  But then, why should this be necessary?

Because Elemental, unlike our previous games, has really been designed to be a game that people can play for decades, this is something that has concerned us. Because we want to encourage people to have the latest version but at the same time, we are aware that some people are worried that 10 years from now, they won’t be able to get the “better” version.

So here is what we’re going to start doing on our developed titles: We’re going to start making archival DVD versions of the game that can be sent to customers.  We already do this with Object Desktop (our most popular non-game product).  This archival version would have no copy protection whatsoever. It would just be a DVD you can put into your machine.

So starting in October, what we will do is make archival DVD editions of our games starting with Galactic Civilizations II: Ultimate Edition and Elemental.  Roughly every year or so, if there have been updates, we’ll create a new archival version of the game that people can have sent to them (it’ll just be a DVD).

LAN Games

There’s been a lot of questions of how someone would play Elemental on their LAN with their friends.  Here’s my suggested way to do it with minimum hassle.

#1 You’ll need to install Impulse on the machines that will be playing the game. But that’s all. Just install and go to step 2.

#2 Go to http://anywhere.impulsedriven.com which is the web interface to Impulse. From here, you would download the web package of Elemental. As long as Impulse is installed on the machine, you can install the game.

#3 When you install, type in your serial #. If it’s on a LAN, just use your single DVD key, Impulse::Reactor’s GOO uses smart activation (i.e. it doesn’t have a “activation limit” type system) so you can just install it on the various machines on your LAN.

#4 When your friends come over to play, they will need, once in the game, to logon with their own accounts (so they or someone will have to provide them with a serial # to attach to their account but they can use it at your LAN in game).  This is because on day 0, the data from the game is handled by our servers (this way, when we update the game data for balancing players don’t have to update their game which would be a real hassle for LAN players).  Eventually we plan to release custom servers so that players can make their own stuff but we won’t have that ready at release.

1,401,461 views 434 replies
Reply #401 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting John_Hughes, reply 400

"I was not in Beta. There are several TBS games that have strong multiplayer components. Stardock has made several statements about MP that do not seem to be in the game. At no point did they say they were going to add a half-finished MP component to the game, but if they have, please do point me in the right direction."


Here is one. From the Horses mouth so to speak.

https://forums.elementalgame.com/391013

 

 

Heh, cute. You must not have bothered to see I already replied in that thread, and this information is obvious after days of talking about MP. This was not brought up during the process. It's the 19th after all.

Reply #402 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting NTJedi, reply 368

Quoting UlyssesNL, reply 351
Quoting kryo,
reply 297

Unless you're using serial crossover cables, "home network" and "LAN" are synonymous for all practical purposes. People read in to it what they want (or don't want) to read.


LAN means local area network and if a game has lan support it should not require internet servers to play on a LAN. If it would just check if the game is legal it might still be considered LAN gaming, but right now it will be connecting to a stardock server and send/receive game data from it. I engineer networks and i cannot think of any situation where sending packets to the internet is considered just LAN communication.

I agree and also work as a Technical Consultant supporting some of the largest blue stock companies across the globe.  Those Stardock boys need some basic computer classes. 


Quoting UlyssesNL, reply 351
And to all the people that complain about the fact that the game needs internet to play multiplayer. In the current Information Era that we live in, it is not unreasonable to expect people to connect to the internet to play a game in multiplayer.


Actually it's a problem with me for a few reasons:

1) The game is now more unstable because it requires internet and the internet variable can stop/crash the game.

2) My brother lives in an area where the internet is extremely unstable, but it's where we LAN game because it's a central location.  I'm just another one of those people not worthy enough in the eyes of Stardock.

3) The game is now more unstable because it requires the Impulse servers and if those servers are having maintenace or problems then it's another variable which can stop/crash the game.

 

Jesus you're dramatic.  Get a grip. It's a game.  Vote with your wallet if you're unhappy

 

 

Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #403 from Elemental Forums Top

Man, with that list of problems how dare any developer try Multiplayer over the internet. It's just destined to fail :P

Reply #404 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 403
Man, with that list of problems how dare any developer try Multiplayer over the internet. It's just destined to fail

If you're a gamer who is stuck with an ISP which is unstable/unreliable then multiplayer over internet is destined to fail for that gamer.  It depends on where you are living... and considering Elemental is an international game multiplayer should have more options than "constant internet WAN only which must connect into Stardock".  Reviewing that quotation is awfully restrictive and adds variables which can make the game crash.  Take a glance at a game loved by the Stardock developers... Civilization_4 and the multiplayer options it provided.  Even during the days of Gal_Civ_2 some of the most active threads were requests for multiplayer.  In addition to the standard internet, Hot Seat, and LAN multiplayer modes, Civ IV was playable by email (PBEM) or on a persistent turn-based server (named Pitboss) out of the box.  Everyone knows the Stardock developers love playing multiplayer games, so we're hoping this starts to show in TBS games with more multiplayer love.  

Reply #405 from Stardock Forums Top

I just want to make sure I'm clear here.

I'm talking single player only here.

Right now, the game requires an install of Impulse and a one-time call home to activate, correct? 

I'm not happy about that - one of the reasons that I normally refuse to buy games that need to call home somewhere to verify that I really own it and can install it.

Will this requirement vanish with the archival DVDs or via patch later?   

Reply #406 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting dionisus1122, reply 402
Jesus you're dramatic.  Get a grip. It's a game.  Vote with your wallet if you're unhappy
We can't, if we pre-ordered.

Some of us didn't pre-order until we were assured there would be LAN support for the game and that with multiplayer in the game, it would be done "right".

Reply #407 from Elemental Forums Top

The box version has no activation or copy protection (so you can play it right out of the box), however for multiplayer and updates you need to use Impulse.  However, you don't need to have Impulse running (or even installed) at the time you run the game.  Basically, Impulse is just for getting updates and, so you can access the multiplayer servers, validating that you have purchased a legitimate copy of the game.

Best regards,
Steven.

Reply #408 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting StevenAus, reply 407
The box version has no activation or copy protection (so you can play it right out of the box), however for multiplayer and updates you need to use Impulse.  However, you don't need to have Impulse running (or even installed) at the time you run the game.  Basically, Impulse is just for getting updates and, so you can access the multiplayer servers, validating that you have purchased a legitimate copy of the game.

Best regards,
Steven.

 

OK, good.  Just like GalCiv2.  Thanks.  Just making sure something hadn't changed here.  I don't buy new games very often, but Stardock's no DRM policy always gets thumbs-up, no worries approach from me.

Reply #409 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Luckmann, reply 406

Quoting dionisus1122, reply 402Jesus you're dramatic.  Get a grip. It's a game.  Vote with your wallet if you're unhappy We can't, if we pre-ordered.
Some of us didn't pre-order until we were assured there would be LAN support for the game and that with multiplayer in the game, it would be done "right".

If you're truly that upset about than contact sales. Stardock has given refunds before for stuff like that.

Reply #410 from Elemental Forums Top

I already made that suggestion, but they choose to ignore and keep ranting.

Makes me wonder if it is really such a huge issue with them.

Reply #411 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting greenmky, reply 405
Right now, the game requires an install of Impulse and a one-time call home to activate, correct?

No.  If you install the game from CD, you can play it as is without ever installing Impulse.  Impulse is only necessary if you want game updates (think of it as a specialized web browser, because that's basically what it is).  If you bought the digital version then you'll obviously need Impulse to download and install it, but after that you could uninstall Impulse if you really wanted and your game would continue to work without restriction.  Of course without Impulse you wouldn't have access to updates, but it's not like Steam where it needs to be ever-present for your games to work.

Reply #412 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting OsirisDawn, reply 410
I already made that suggestion, but they choose to ignore and keep ranting.

Makes me wonder if it is really such a huge issue with them.

 

I think it comes down to, having read this insanely long thread too much, is the idea that some people want to be able to spawn a sheaf of copies of Elemental on their LAN and have everyone play in MP, using the one activated copy. 

 

 

 

Reply #413 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Jvstin, reply 412

Quoting OsirisDawn, reply 410I already made that suggestion, but they choose to ignore and keep ranting.

Makes me wonder if it is really such a huge issue with them.
 

I think it comes down to, having read this insanely long thread too much, is the idea that some people want to be able to spawn a sheaf of copies of Elemental on their LAN and have everyone play in MP, using the one activated copy. 

 

 

 
which is essentially a form of piracy. IMO.

 

Reply #414 from Elemental Forums Top

 

Quoting dragoaskani, reply 365

I was being lazy and copy pasted the definition, DUH! If you want to nit pick it nit pick the people that wrote it again, DUH. *mumbles* jackass...

 You were lazy and copied a crappy definition which I'm to assume you agree with otherwise why post it, and I'm the jackass?

 

Quoting dragoaskani, reply 413

Quoting Jvstin, reply 412
Quoting OsirisDawn, reply 410I already made that suggestion, but they choose to ignore and keep ranting.

Makes me wonder if it is really such a huge issue with them.
 

I think it comes down to, having read this insanely long thread too much, is the idea that some people want to be able to spawn a sheaf of copies of Elemental on their LAN and have everyone play in MP, using the one activated copy. 

 

 

 which is essentially a form of piracy. IMO.
 

You make it sound as if the only people that want this is the ones throwing 15 person lan parties when that's not the case.  There has been an argument made for the person that wants to be able to play this with there family members (1-2 extra people max) that don't feel the need to shell out $150 for one game so they can all play it within the privacy of their own home. 

I fully agree if someone is throwing a lan party with a bunch of people/friends that they should all own a copy of the game, but the home license issue is something that game developers need to address if they're going to keep pulling this crap of our game is going to connect to our servers no matter what type of MP you are playing ala Starcraft II.

Reply #415 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Jvstin, reply 412



Quoting OsirisDawn,
reply 410
I already made that suggestion, but they choose to ignore and keep ranting.

Makes me wonder if it is really such a huge issue with them.


 

I think it comes down to, having read this insanely long thread too much, is the idea that some people want to be able to spawn a sheaf of copies of Elemental on their LAN and have everyone play in MP, using the one activated copy. 

 

 

 

I don't think you read everything if that is what you think.

Reply #416 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting kryo, reply 378

Being bridged or gated to a WAN does not make a LAN any less of one. This is why many of these arguments don't make sense. The overwhelming majority of residential LANs have internet access, but you'd argue that they then are no longer LANs. Which is silly and completely beside the point.

Purplepaladin's complaint concerning his LAN-party-in-the-woods, I can understand, but that puts him in a minority (Elemental multiplayers) of a minority (on LAN) of a minority (without internet) of players. It's not something most people are going to do--if you're doing a LAN party, you're generally just going to go over to someone's home, and they will most very likely have internet.

All the people arguing "you can't play the game on a LAN!!" or "It's not a LAN if it has an internet connection!" are obfuscating the issues and are doing themselves and us a great disservice here. There are a couple of real complaints here underlying most of them and it'd be a lot more constructive if you simply came out with them directly.

 

The problem here is basically that there are two camps with differing definitions of what constitutes "supporting MP over LAN".

One definition being used is "no external network connection is required to play MP between two computers on the same LAN", and the other is "it is possible to play MP between two computers on the same LAN".

In my opinion, it is absolutely clear that the first one is the one that is traditionally used.

In my opinion, it is also clear that the second one is generally meaningless.

 

People may have noticed that there has been a lot of talk in the gaming press about Starcraft 2 not supporting LAN play. Ask yourselves this: Do you really think they mean that it is not possible to play Starcraft 2 *over the internet* with someone that happens to sit on the same local network as you? No. What they mean is that you are required to be connected to Blizzard's servers in order to play multiplayer. This would seem to be a pretty clear indication that at least the gaming press agrees with me about the traditional definition of "LAN play".

 

As for why the second definition is generally meaningless, ask yourselves this: How many multiplayer-capable games that connect over the internet can you think of that explicitly prohibits two players on the same local network from playing against each other? A distinction that is never relevant is not a very meaningful distinction.

 

To reiterate, it is my strong opinion that a game that requires internet access in order to play multiplayer does not fall under the traditional definition of what constitutes "supporting MP over LAN".

 

From Frogboy's posts *in this thread*, it is my understanding that:

1) Elemental will not support MP over LAN at the time of release (though it might at a later time)

2) Frogboy has not stated that Elemental will support MP over LAN at the time of release (he described an easy way to install the game on multiple computers that happen to be in the same location. The later argument about what is/is not LAN play came mostly from *other players* (and you I suppose)).

 

I should probably also make clear that it is not a problem for me personally that the game will not support MP over LAN at the time of release. I am not likely to be playing the game in a location where internet access is not possible, so for me it just doesn't present a problem. I do however appreciate that others will be playing under different conditions, and I do find the distinction to be meaningful.

 

Now, you are right that a continued back and forth about what is/is not LAN play is not very constructive, but you could have easily stopped at least that part of the discussion very early on by just coming out and say "Elemental will not support MP LAN at the time of release, but it is something we hope to add at a later time". There would have still been people who would be dissatisfied with the lack of MP LAN, but at least there wouldn't have been as much fighting about what "MP LAN" actually means.

Honestly, coming out and explicitly saying that might still be a good idea.

Reply #417 from Demigod Forums Top

the title is "LAN games" that's where the confusion lies. 

Reply #418 from Elemental Forums Top

Question: I saw the guy with the thread who bought the game early and couldn't play.  I'm just curious - if there is no activation with Impulse, why couldn't he play the game in single-player mode out of the box?  This seems at odds to the no-DRM premise of this thread.

Reply #419 from Stardock Forums Top

Ok there is probably no point in responding to any of this but i feel like it.....

I see both sides of the coin and I belive both sides have logical arguments about LAN. But what i dont get is....

I could give the game to my entire dorm and everyone could play it....

However we cant play together....

Yet the game was directed towards mostly single player players....

There is something there that doesnt make sense to me. The reason I have a problem with LAN or lack there of is that thats kinda what stardock was all about. When SINs came out and it had the ability for me to play with a couple of friends for a few hours without having to buy it 3 times was something I really try to find in games. I always thought that LAN play and you only will need an seprete accounts for internet play would just be a Stardock thing.

Its just kind of a little thing that true not very many people will be effected by it but here at college social gaming is really quite a big deal and if someone comes late to the party and they dont have there own serial key it kinda sucks they have to wait in a corner until we play something else.

Stardock never said that they would forever make Lan play without independent cd keys games. But thats the impression I got and its just kinda sad that my impression of the company was wrong in that respect.

Reply #420 from Elemental Forums Top

I never ever got the impression that people would be able to play multiplayer without a cdkey.

I think it's retarded that they claim there would be lan, and now there isn't. But I don't really care, since I won't play this lan anyway.

 

Reply #421 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Mythor, reply 168



And if you're not planning on buying it anyway then fuck off. Actual customer wishes take priority. I want pink ponies for my Sovereign to ride.

 

That is why I support their company, actual customers take priority and winy pissers and moaners can go elsewhere.

 

Keep Up the good work.

 

Reply #422 from Elemental Forums Top

Hi folks, I was hoping to play this game at home and in my lunch hour at work (as I did with beta 4).  I updated my copy on my home PC this morning and it works fine but when I tried on my work PC it said the update was available but just removed the beta version. 

I know it must be something to do with different IP adresses etc, but when I log in at work I can still access my Impulse account and see my registered serial numbers but am not able download v1.0.   Is there a way for me to play on two different machines?  It's not the end of the world, just a little dissapointing as it gives me something to do at lunch time.

Cheers,

Andy

PS I managed to get a few mins play in at home this morning and WOW guys amazing job, no more out of memory errors!

Reply #423 from Elemental Forums Top

when I tried on my work PC it said the update was available but just removed the beta version.

Is it giving you any errors? If not, please contact [email protected] about this.

Reply #424 from Elemental Forums Top

No error messages and no option to re download my digital purchase on my works PC (although I can access my serial key via impulse on my works PC).  I have also tried the link in Frogboys op re anywhere.impulsedriven but that didn't work either.  I have emailed stardock support a little while ago today aswell.  Thanks kryo.

Regards,

Andy.

Reply #425 from Elemental Forums Top

Just an update.  I have had an answer from stardock support about a registry fix that can be applied (http://sd.stardock.com/curthendzell/fix_registrations.reg) and told to save it to my works PC then double click to apply.  My "My Games" tab has reappeared in Impulse and I can now reinstall my games.

I'm a very happy bunny!  Thanks to Matt at Stardock!

Andy.