Exactly.  Regardless we still have this freebie program at taxpayer expense which is not a need but a luxury. 

once again you say I'm bashing Obama.  Where in the world are you getting that subjective opinion?  The subject matter here is NOT Obama but the program he thinks is ok. 

ya, that's how to be well rounded.  Are you afraid you might learn something that goes against what you so dogmatically believe?    You don't even know that Jeremiah (I've met him personally many times) is a well known and beloved mainstream man of God.  I went to a Pastor's conference along with my husband and about 100 other pastors and he gave us all a set of his whole library of books at no small cost to him.  He's a proficient writer basically putting in book form his sermons to his congregation.

What I believe dogmatically has nothing to do with why I think David Jeremiah is an opportunist. However knowing that his organization resigned from the ECFA after a financial investigation does. It is disappointing to see so many people these days using religion for their own political and/or financial gain. Particularly when they are associated with a church whose religious dogma comes from the same book that mine comes from.

You are correct. It is my opinion. So let me pull out your exact statements which have formed this opinion.

"You're Paying For The Obama Phones"

"The Obama cell phone plan"

It's simple. You just call the company. Not having a phone is an excellent excuse to do so. Pay phones do exist.

I got my first ever real job in 1998 in Dublin just after finishing high school. I am not particularly bright. It took me an extra year to finish school because I failed the final exams the first try.

I was 19 years old and had just left my parents' house. In Dublin I shared a room with three other people in a house shared by about 20 people because that was all I could afford. I did have health insurance.

I applied for a job by walking into company buildings and after a few days I found a job as a computer technician. I installed Windows and network adapters for a living. The way the application worked that they would either send me away (and I would call them the next day to learn their decision) or, in the one case where I succeeded, worked for them for half a day so they could see if it would make sense to hire me. They ultimately became a subsidiary of ComputerLand.

For various reasons I moved away and only returned to Ireland in 2004, when I again found myself without much money and, obviously, no mobile phone (which by then had become normal).

I lived again in that same house and applied for a new job the same way I knew, except that I also called the company I used to work for years before. They had been bought and sold a few times and had moved around quite a lot. And they hired me again. For a few days I took a bus daily from where I lived to the city centre to the General Post Office because the GPO had the must trustworthy pay phones. I called the company and received word that I had an interview and ultimately that I had a job.

It was on that job that I rceived my first mobile phone.

The next job I got via a recruiter. The company called the recruiter, not me. And while the recruiter called me, I could also have called him. I don't think the application the company saw even had my phone number on it.

In that case he also shouldn't accept one. I always felt that government programs like that should be for the needy, not the lazy. If you CAN work, you shoudn't accept government help.

And the worrying part is that I am very left-wing. I am in favour of a public healthcare system and I admire socialist leaders of the past. But while I can myself live in a collective (like a kibbutz or the aforementioned house), I simply cannot envision a need for a free mobile phone as part of the socialist ideal.

I want to add that I do have a problem with social welfare. Karl Marx said "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" and I happen to think that the first part of that motto is as important as the second, if you want a real socialism.

Most modern socialists seem to read Marx' statement as "from those dumb enough to work to those clever enough to take".

Modern socialism is as much a caricature of authentic socialism as the capitalism today's socialists want to perceive is a caricature of the real world.

No but what the plan actually does is allow a cellphone instead of a landline subsidy not both as some may have been lead to believe. The cost of the cellphone subsidy is the same as the landline subsidy. So lets put it all in context. If you are on welfare because you are disabled, elderly or a single mother (who may be able but still looking for work) is having a phone a luxury? It is unfortunate that others do manipulate the system but what do you do, refuse to help the truly needy because of it?

First let us put a misunderstanding out of the way: I don't care whether the phone is a mobile phone or a landline and in my anecdote it didn't make a difference because I had neither (which is why I took the bus to the post office to make calls).

Second, I do think that a phone is a luxury.

Third, it is the usual strategy of liberals to excuse social welfare by referring to the disabled, elderly or single mothers. Well, here is a surprising proposal: if you want to help the disabled, elderly and single mothers, create a program for THEM (include single fathers) and replace the general social welfare system with that program. That would even mean more money for those groups while costing the rest of us less than the current program.

Fourth, I don't think there is anything about being elderly that entitles someone to free goods. Everyone grows old. It's not an accidental disaster afflicting some people, like disability.

Fifth, there is a difference between being against a certain wasteful way of helping the "needy" and refusing the help the "truly needy". In my experience those who argue against social welfare are also more willing to give voluntarily. I wonder if anyone has statistics?

The "truly needy" live outside the United States and western Europe. I am all for helping them.

I totally agree on this

Then please don't use the term "truly needy" to refer to people who have American citizenship or a work permit and are certainly not nearly as poor as the majority of people living on this planet.

Being an elderly disabled single mother in America might be a nightmare for an American, but for most of the world it is a dream.

 We do loose sight of how good we have it sometimes

My flat mate is a student from a third world country.

That is close to what we have now with job training so its finite since they reformed the system back in the 90's. Not perfect and there are plenty of holes in the system which should get patched. It just seems sometimes in these blogs that the stereotype is of the old system which was really bad.

Here! here!  Thank you for voicing sanity about the stupidity of Americans, especially the ruling class.

First of all you do NOT know his motives so how can you call him an opportunist? Have you read any of his stuff?  Doesn't sound like you have.    I know him, read his books and have sat under his teaching personally many times not to mention have listened to him for years on the radio.   And while I don't always agree with David I do believe he's a genuine preacher/teacher of the gospel.  I don't say that lightly.  I tend to be very critical these days of many preachers. 

As far as the ECFA I take that as something serious.  Where did you get that information?  You're making a serious allegation here.   I only give to those organizations that support the ECFA system.   I have no problem calling Jeremiah up to find out myself. 

So if they use and teach the same book as you...what's the problem?  Didn't Jesus say "if they are for us, they can't be against us?" 

I just found this and every single name I have loved and listened to for years: 

You can trust MinistryWatch.com as an invaluable resource, as well as the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA). I hope these act as a guide in your donation decisions. Remember that God does not promise riches in this life but that our treasures be stored in heaven, where moth nor rust can corrupt. Some of the highest rated ministries that have an A grade include:

Billy Graham; Hour of Decision, Dr. R. C. Sprouls; Ligonier Ministries, Dr. Charles Stanley; In-Touch, Adrian Rogers; Love Worth Finding, Dr. James Dobson; Focus on the Family, Chip Ingram; Living on the Edge, others include John MacArthur, Dr. David Jeremiah, Ravi Zacharias, John Piper, and many others.

Read more: http://www.bukisa.com/articles/213302_wolves-in-sheeps-clothing-eed-of-faith-false-gospels#ixzz0wK5O2sAL

Today in my local paper I read quite a lengthy article entitled:  "Federal program buys cell phones for the poor" written by Scott Canon from McClatchy Newspapers. 

In the article he wrote:

"A cell phone in every pocket.  And for growing numbers, it's free. "

"It's a sign of the times," said Nicholas Eberstadt, a researcher at the conservative American Enterprise Institute and author of "The Poverty of The Poverty Rate." 

"Roughly one in 10 American households qualifies for a direct phone subsidy.  In a fast growing number of states, that equates to a free cell phone." 

In the article he writes that cell companies are seeing this as a way to scoop up hundreds of millions of dollars in business.  More than 2 million poor people have been given free phones and cell service. 

This access appears to be drawing more low-income families into the program and to the marketplace of carriers like TracFone and Sprint.  These companies stand to increase their profits even more by selling minutes to the poor BEYOND what the government provides. 

Between 2008-2009 spending on the phone program grew by nearly $179 million.  Phone subsidies for low income families are projected to rise $200 million plus more this year and total $1.2 billion.  This is huge money. 

Even the advocates for the program admit this is a jaw dropping idea. 

In 1984 under a Democratic Congress and the Reagan administration they agreed to establish this program.  Only back then it discounted phone bills of poor families which amounted to about $10 a month per family for thier landlines. 

That is not what is happening today.   Now instead of paying a reduced rate for a landline they pay nothing agreeing not to go over their monthly allotment of minutes.   It's now available to families in 25 states and is going to become nationwide soon. 

"Were able to create a profit off it.  We created the business model off of the $10 subsidy," said Jose Fuentes director of government relations for TracFone."

Part of the reasoning behind this is to help families to control their budgets. 

Isn't that nice? 

Religion for me is more of an inspirational thing, so someone like Rick Warren is a little closer to what I would read. Not the end is nigh stuff.

I think Billy Graham started it to keep things in check a bit. Its on the web.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? 

You just got done telling me you don't like opportunists (neither do I) but you just picked one of the biggest one out there.  You did not know this?  Rick Warren is one of the guys responsible for the seeker friendly churches.  One of the other ministers involved in this type of ministry came out recently admitting this was a mistake. 

Check for yourself.  Rick Warren hired a marketing firm to market his book "Purpose Driven Life."   He's one that the strongest of Christians stay away from.  At our church we took all those books out of the library. 

The ones listed above in my last posting are just a few of the most Godly preachers we have today.  I especially think R.C. Sproul and John MacArthur are the best we have today. 

But if you like market driven, seeker friendly guys than yes, Rick Warren is your man.  But it makes no sense in what you just told me about not liking opportunists. 

I am very much against peddling the gospel making merchandise of it like so many do today.  So we agree there but am still shaking my head over your liking Rick Warren.  Have you read his book?  Have you noticed that he uses diff versions of the bible in it to make it say what he wants it to say even using a paraphrase bible (which is not scripture) which sounds nothing like the original Hebrew and Greek. 

Now as far as the "end is nigh stuff" is concerned...the preachers are only doing what they are supposed to be doing.  Warning us to be ready.  If you know or recall from the OT, the prophets  were warning Israel of impending danger.  But Israel, instead listened to the Rick Warren's of their day (teachers who tickle ears)  and chose not to believe in the end time stuff.  By then Israel was divided into two nations, the North and the South.  The Northern tribes had certain prophets warning them and so did the Southern tribe have thier prophets warning them.  The Northern tribe was taken into exile by Assyria exactly as warned by the prophets and the Southern tribe was taken into exile by Babylon exactly as their prophets foretold about 100 years later. 

One thing is certain hell is truth seen too late.  These men of God speaking of end times are helping us by telling us these things.  They are preaching the truth.  They are holding our arms up so to speak.  We need to heed and listen, not tell them to go away which is exactly what the people of Israel did to the prophets of their day.  Read the book of Jeremiah some day. This is history repeating itself over again.   

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Free cell phones....