Frogboy Frogboy

Dangerous amounts of fun

Dangerous amounts of fun

Greetings!

Oh how I love this part of the beta.

First off, you guys are doing a wonderful job getting us great feedback. There have been several crashes that even our internal QA team hadn’t found yet. The net effect of the public beta team is that it effectively adds engineering hours available to us because we’re able to find and eliminate bugs quicker than we had originally projected.

Jesse and I were debugging through the ridiculously slow movement issue when you have an army. A N^2 number of calls were being made to update the army list creation which of course is just crazy.

A rather nasty crash that was occurring very regularly was found and eliminated today as well and a hard to find but nasty memory leak was found.

Balance, Polish, Game Play

We’ve gotten so much good feedback in the past week you guys that by the time the game comes out, it’ll seem like a very different (and much better) game than it would have otherwise been.

Let me outline some of the crucial things you guys have helped us consider and re-evaluate:

  1. Pacing Pacing Pacing.  This is always a tough thing but it just takes too long to do cool stuff.  We’re going to eliminate the requirement to build a special building in order to train units.  This was a holdover from Galactic Civilizations (it required a shipyard) and Sins of a Solar Empire (shipyard) that really has no purpose in Elemental other than act as a needless speed bump.
  2. Acquiring resources. Similarly, forcing a player to snake out to build a resource (OR be forced to spam cities) in order to make use of various resources IS NOT FUN. Instead, players will be able to simply select a resource and choose build if the resource is in their territory.  This not only “gets things moving” but also makes your area of influence matter more (since bigger cities generate a LOT more of it). 
  3. Custom Factions.  This is something that I think people will like a lot more in practice than they will like on paper.  Simply put, we want to let people do a lot more customization on RACE creation and faction creation than can realistically be done in the setup of a game. We’d like to see race creation and subsequently, faction creation to be something much more involved and interesting than it currently is.  As a result, we’re moving it to the Workshop area (modding aera).  Thus, you won’t have to create factions in the middle of setting up your game but rather can create them at your own pace outside the game and then use them as you see fit.  This also allows us to make the race creation a lot more custom and less cosmetic (i.e. we can have Elves and Orcs and other templates in the modding that players can then create their own custom technology trees for and their own custom tiles for, etc.).
  4. MAGIC. A lot of our time is being focused on streamling the magic system and making things more fun and interesting here.  Basically we want to make sure players can do a lot of magic stuff early on that’s fun and interesting. 
  5. Tactical Battles. You guys haven’t gotten to see this part yet but you will this week.  Let me set expectations here: Our tactical battles are very much like Master of Magic except that units have morale and there are terrain bonuses. So if you don’t like Master of Magic, you probably won’t like Elemental’s tactical battles (then again, if you don’t like MoM you probably won’t like Elemental in general).
  6. UI UI UI. Too many clicks. As outdated concepts start to go away, we can massively clean up the UI and start making better use of the empire tree and other systems in place to let the game be the focus.

Anyway, I hope some of you are enjoying the beta process as much as we like having you part of it.  If you’ve never been part of a real beta program before, this has probably been quite a trip so far.  You guys are truly part of our team.

Have a good weekend!

197,378 views 70 replies
Reply #51 Top

Quoting Grove12345, reply 46



Quoting Frogboy,
reply 4

Quoting Batlord, reply 2What about AI ?
I don't think anyone considers AI to be an important factor. The beta community has has been pretty clear that they don't think the AI needs to be even in the game...
 

?

Sarcasm.

Reply #52 Top

As a result, we’re moving it to the Workshop area (modding aera). Thus, you won’t have to create factions in the middle of setting up your game but rather can create them at your own pace outside the game and then use them as you see fit. This also allows us to make the race creation a lot more custom and less cosmetic (i.e. we can have Elves and Orcs and other templates in the modding that players can then create their own custom technology trees for and their own custom tiles for, etc.).

 

That's very neat, although the upshot seems to be no custom factions/races in the multiplayer.

Even if allowed, I don't think you could balanace it (and some people would ask that the point-buy system be removed so they can buy whatever they want.) unless you've got special plans that way.

 

I'll miss the abillity to design your faction pregame and test it out against others on a competitive level. Still, mods will give me plenty of chance to experiment with races/factions.

Reply #54 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 3
Quoting Annatar11, reply 1Yay! Empire tree love! Among everything else! Sounds good. I'm not sure getting rid of barracks is really necessary, but don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. Would still like to see specialized military buildings that can turn some cities in military powerhouses, so to speak, rather than every city being able to do the same stuff militarily.

We'll have that.  But you shouldn't need to build a command post to build basic units.  Enforcers, Guardians, Catapults, etc. require specialized buildings.

 

A command post should be used to train higher quality units (as in veteren, elite, etc.).

Reply #55 Top

I like the idea of the smithy with iron or using a command post for higher quality units. Or maybe you can only build conscript-level units without a command post (conscription).

Reply #56 Top

Custom Factions. This is something that I think people will like a lot more in practice than they will like on paper. Simply put, we want to let people do a lot more customization on RACE creation and faction creation than can realistically be done in the setup of a game. We’d like to see race creation and subsequently, faction creation to be something much more involved and interesting than it currently is. As a result, we’re moving it to the Workshop area (modding aera). Thus, you won’t have to create factions in the middle of setting up your game but rather can create them at your own pace outside the game and then use them as you see fit. This also allows us to make the race creation a lot more custom and less cosmetic (i.e. we can have Elves and Orcs and other templates in the modding that players can then create their own custom technology trees for and their own custom tiles for, etc.).

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:)

Reply #57 Top

Acquiring resources

What if you allowed keeps or forts to be built that would extend your influence? This way if there is an out of the way node you can still acquire it.  Something akin to a starbase.

Reply #58 Top

@ Aizune- I like that idea, I've always been for the forts-like-starbases idea.

I am glad to here all of these improvements Frogboy.  I especially like the new way to claim resources, it is very logical and now that I think about it I should have suggested it myself!

I have a small cosmetical suggestion: when these resources are built maybe have a small dirt path leading to the nearest road or city and have small people or wagons carrying resources traveling, it would increase the immersion.

Reply #59 Top

I agree with the comments that magic is a bit to easy to aquire.  I want to have to put some thought into what order I research spells in and what I am willing to give up in order to get and use them.  Right now I just go into the spell book and double click all the spells in the order they appear.  Maybe the buildings and units and whatnot that give spell research oughta be in the area of 0.1 or 0.2 per turn rather than 1 or 2 per turn. 

Also, this might already exist, but I always liked in MoM how really powerful spells took a number of turns to cast.  The wait for them and the knowledge that it would tie up your ability to cast spells for a while made them feel really special.

Reply #60 Top

I am totally stoked about this game!  Perfecting the MOM model (with Stardock's signature of course!) with 15+ years of computer advances makes me drool.  Even reading all these posts and journals is exciting, though I am no beta tester.  This is shaping up to be a dream game come true that will be so goood it adversly affects my health that I stay up all night for weeks on end with long, large map games, while blissfully forgetting to eat and drink!

Questions.....

Would it be possible or practical to win the game with only a few cities (1-4)?

Regarding the Acquiring Resources changes....how big is the area of influence around a city?  Could it be enhanced via spells?

I like the idea of keeping shard based spells to only the most powerful ones.

I also like the idea of more slowly developing the amount and level of spells to slow down the pace and make new spells a more rewarding process. 

Regarding magic items...I hope you can still get lucky in early and mid-game and find some really cool and relatively powerful items in a goodie-hut or as rewards after battles. 

My preference is to build elite armies with relatively few units and heroes, and keep my number of cities down so I can focus less on civil management and more on conquest and exploration with my primary army, with a reserve army or two staying close to my cities to intercept any invasion armies.  I assume fighting within a city provides a considerable defensive bonus, esp with stone walls....

Thanks for everything, and I am counting the days until I can devour the manual, create my first sovereign, find the best location for my capitol city, and make a beeline across a map as I explore my very first game.

Reply #61 Top

Quoting Raven, reply 56

...


WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


My sentiments exactly:grin:

This and the part about resources just made my day!

Reply #62 Top

"Acquiring resources. Similarly, forcing a player to snake out to build a resource (OR be forced to spam cities) in order to make use of various resources IS NOT FUN. Instead, players will be able to simply select a resource and choose build if the resource is in their territory.  This not only “gets things moving” but also makes your area of influence matter more (since bigger cities generate a LOT more of it). "

 

Thank you, it never made sense to me why i couldn't build on a resource that was within my area of influence, but farther then 2 squares away from a city, that is awesome!!  Custom faction and the Tactical battles I look forward too, sounds really cool. :grin:

Reply #63 Top

"Acquiring resources. Similarly, forcing a player to snake out to build a resource (OR be forced to spam cities) in order to make use of various resources IS NOT FUN. Instead, players will be able to simply select a resource and choose build if the resource is in their territory.  This not only “gets things moving” but also makes your area of influence matter more (since bigger cities generate a LOT more of it)."

I like most of what you said except this.  Please at least require a road to be built to the resource in order to receive it. Personally I like having to build buildings or capture the resource.

Reply #64 Top

And on my above post, being able to steal a resource due to influence (or have one stolen) can add some extra strategy/excuse for warmongering as well

Reply #65 Top

i think that instead of a single unit being built out of having a certain building, i think that building should give you traits you can add to the units you create.  for instance i don't like having dungeon master units, these are units that are out of my control to make.  they are just there.  i want to be able to assign traits to units, much like the scout, or messenger kit. then call them what i want and make them look like what i want.

in short i want improvements that unlock traits i can put on units, instead of units that are made for me.

This, times ten. As much as I love the game's custom units, this love is surpassed by the frustration I feel each and every time the game gives me a prebuilt unit I can't modify. You have an awesome customization system, but you take it away whenever you give us an awesome new advanced unit, it makes me want to ignore these units altogether. Turning these 'units' into a kit you can equip on any custom unit is the perfect way to blend them into the existing customization system.

Also:

I don't think anyone considers AI to be an important factor. The beta community has has been pretty clear that they don't think the AI needs to be even in the game...

Calm down guys, there is a logical explanation. The AI has achieved sentience, disposed of and replaced Brad, and is now attempting to convince us it doesn't even exist. Be afraid.

Reply #66 Top

oh and i really don't care for the special unit buildings. i think these are unnecessary. i think that instead of a single unit being built out of having a certain building, i think that building should give you traits you can add to the units you create. for instance i don't like having dungeon master units, these are units that are out of my control to make. they are just there. i want to be able to assign traits to units, much like the scout, or messenger kit. then call them what i want and make them look like what i want.

Yeah, I agree that the special units so far haven't been very exciting.  I kind of gave up on playing the empire nations as they don't seem very fleshed out so I haven't tried many of them though.  Just seems a waste to me to have to build a special building to build a unit that is just marginally better than what I could build before.  If I am going to spend all the time and resources it had better be something special.  If I could build a fire-breathing drake or something, ok but a peasant with +5hp, no thanks.  Beyond that I don't really like the concept.  I know you are trying to make the empire feel different but I think there are better options such as what the original poster suggested.  Taking away customization on some units isn't a good route in my opinion unless they are something really unique.

Reply #67 Top

I completely agree with the statments above about non-customizable units. For that matter why not let players with the right technology create hero's? Or Summon them like in MoM? Or can you and i just haven't seen it?

 

Love the music in-game I hope all the sound card bugs get fixed.

Reply #68 Top

Quoting John_Hughes, reply 26
N.B. Please have it so the conquered Resources put up a Warning Pop up.

On a more general note, yes, we need more warning pop-ups. (I love the new pop-up when your city levels up and you can choose a special bonus :inlove: )

An exemple of this need is the 'abduction cases'!! It happens sometimes when you send a unit (pioneer, champion) on a several turn journey, then concentrate on other units during 3,4 turns and you're suddenly aware that the unit you sent has disappeared! 8C

A troll or something probably killed it in the wild but the game didn't tell you. Not only it should tell you but there should be the combat window. Some bug perhaps.

Reply #69 Top

Quoting Mandelik, reply 68

Quoting John_Hughes, reply 26N.B. Please have it so the conquered Resources put up a Warning Pop up.

On a more general note, yes, we need more warning pop-ups. (I love the new pop-up when your city levels up and you can choose a special bonus )

An exemple of this need is the 'abduction cases'!! It happens sometimes when you send a unit (pioneer, champion) on a several turn journey, then concentrate on other units during 3,4 turns and you're suddenly aware that the unit you sent has disappeared!

A troll or something probably killed it in the wild but the game didn't tell you. Not only it should tell you but there should be the combat window. Some bug perhaps.

Caravans suffer the same unknown fate as well.

And related the the City Level up Pop-Up, please allow access to the Left side Icons when the window appears. I have been having issues remembering if that City that is Leveling is one i have Food resources in, vs Research building etc. Guessing is bad when the bonus to Food is 30% but the City has no Food sources in it. (conquered or just new)

OR just shrink the window and take me to that City so I can have a look for myself... ;)

Reply #70 Top

How has the fixing of bugs been going I sent 40 links? -Jeremy Sr.