United States Government Officially Fighting Piracy

RavenX

Join Date 10/2008

+194

United States Government Officially Fighting Piracy

The Censorship and Suing Has Begun.

Source: CNet News. June 30th. Check it out Here.

A week after U.S. Vice President Joe Biden Warned that the government would start cracking down on illegal file sharing, the feds swooped in and seized assets belonging to operators of accused movie-pirating sites.

The government on Wednesday also took control of at least seven of the sites in question: Movies-Links.tv, Now-Movies.com, TVShack.net, Filespump.com, Planetmoviez.com, ZML.com, ThePirateCity.org, Ninjavideo.net, and NinjaThis.net. More than a dozen bank, investment, and advertising accounts were seized, and authorities served search warrants on residences in several different states.

Authorities are searching for operators of the sites as part of an ongoing criminal investigation, according to Virginia Kice, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). The crimes that the operators are accused of committing weren't clear, but some of the sites are accused of distributing film copies prior to their theatrical release.

As of 3 p.m. PDT, some of the sites were still operating, but government officials said they anticipated the sites would come under government control within hours.

The investigation involved multiple law enforcement groups, including the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York and ICE, a unit of the Department of Homeland Security.

Last week, Biden and Victoria Espinel, the U.S. intellectual property enforcement coordinator, told reporters that they wanted to send a message to counterfeiters and pirates that this administration was intent on protecting the nation's intellectual property. Espinel directed a statement at those people who trafficked in phony goods or unauthorized music and movies: "We have committed to putting you out of business."

ICE and the Department of Justice both suggested Wednesday that these types of seizures and investigations are just the beginning.

More to come

That's right boys and girls, the Federal Government is now shutting down websites and Law Firms owned by corporate movie makers are Suing Private Citizens who are using Peer to Peer programs like LimeWire and uTorrent. That's right, they're even shutting down Peer to Peer programs and Suing every day "Joe Blow" users who have downloaded Movies, Games, and MP3's. If you'd like the proof of this happening right now, there's some mess going on about the movie "Hurt Locker" which some guy shared on LimeWire. Now the makers of the movie are Suing the distributers such as the makers of LimeWire and even going as far as to file suite against 5,000 yet un-named people. Don't think they are, that they can't? They ARE!!! Here's Proof!!! The Government themselves have started shutting down domains and are petitioning ISP's for their users names and home addresses so that other law firms can also file suite against home users just for "watching" something online without even having downloaded it to their computer. Seen this picture anywhere lately?

Source: CNet News. June 11th. Check it out Here.

In Arizona, a law firm called White Berberian recently began advertising on its site that it will defend those accused of illegal file sharing by Dunlap Grubb & Weaver. That is the firm, which also goes by the name U.S. Copyright Group, that is filing lawsuits on behalf of filmmakers who claim their movies were pirated by thousands of peer-to-peer users.

In addition to the Oscar-winning film "The Hurt Locker," Dunlap Grubb represents about a dozen movies, including "Far Cry" and "Call of the Wild 3D." The law firm has said that it will sue more than 50,000 alleged file sharers.

So far, it appears thousands of people have received settlement offers from Dunlap Grubb and many are confused about their rights. Typically, people learn about being accused of violating copyright law from their Internet service providers, which inform them that they have received a subpoena to turn over their identity to Dunlap Grubb.

"While we cannot guarantee a particular outcome, if we cannot negotiate a settlement better than what Plaintiff offered, we will refund your money."

--White Berberian law firm

The law firm usually follows up with a form letter informing the accused that someone using their Internet protocol address was illegally sharing one of the films. Dunlap Grubb then tells the accused file sharer that they can settle the case for $1,500 if they move quickly. If they wait, the firm will charge them $2,500 and if they decide to fight it out in court, Dunlap Grubb can ask for up to $150,000

That's right, another 500,000 people are going to be sued. That's Half A Million People!!! Not rich people. Not Hard Core pirates. Not the people who ripped the movie and put it up on the Internet. Normal users or even parents who's kids installed LimeWire and the parents didn't even know what it was, much less that it was technically being used for something "Illegal". LimeWire is just the start too. Now that the Government is in on the action you can bet that all these other Peer to Peer services will be next, and that includes torrents.

It's odd though as I didn't think "Peer to Peer" programs had "Servers" that could be shut down that would stop a program from working but apparently they do. Some how they can shut down programs like LimeWire and uTorrent as well as sue the people who made it and are using it. ISP's are willingly handing over records of everything your IP downloads and every website you visit. Chances are if you even go to what will soon be a "black listed" site your name will go onto a "watch-list" or you'll soon be getting a statement from your ISP quickly followed by a court notice that you are being sued.

YouTube was granted a "Exception" because it actively takes pirated and copyrighted materials down and because it has plenty of content that is "User Made" and not copyrighted. Check out this article on CNet News about the differences between YouTube and LimeWire and how exactly one can be shut down and not the other.

Web copyright: YouTube up, Lime Wire down. Source: CNet News. June 30th

This is only the beginning everyone. The sh!ts hitting the fan and the common people are about to feel the pinch of the Heavy Hand of Corporate Government.

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Quoting k10w3,

reply 48

That's not free...

To the end user, it's entirely free in every regard. I have to pay nothing for the free-to-air Television channels. I also don't have to pay anything for access to free-to-air Radio stations. They are, without exception, free.

Quoting k10w3,

reply 48

...That's paid for by advertising by big corporate interests, so watching "free" television is actually indoctrination to purchase the advertiser's products, which is rather agonizing to the poor, since they don't have the money to purchase those products...

Advertisers pay for the air time between programming segments, and display advertisements to sell their products. The more people watch a show, the higher the ratings the broadcast company receives, the more they can charge for access to the air time between their programming. The end user is under no obligation to purchase any of the products displayed and are free at any moment to change channel to avoid the advertisements. Regardless of their income, or lack there of, the Television station and the programs and movies displayed on it remain free.
The advertising revenue generated from selling that time is used to fund television programs - pay actors, build sets, hire writers. The end user - regardless of how rich or poor they are - pays nothing. This is the system, developed to ensure free broadcasting for all.

Quoting k10w3,

reply 48

...Reading a book from the library is a much wiser form of entertainment for the poor.

Well, if we're discussing what they should be doing, perhaps they should be locating a second job so they can stop being poor? Or furthering their education to hold a better paying job? Or developing a new technology in their free time, so that they can patent it and make enough money to stop being poor? Or, maybe, we shouldn't tell people what to do.
In your opinion, reading is better. However, coming home after a double shift to half a meal because its all they can afford, I doubt many of them would really want to read Atlas Shrugged, as opposed to watch the next episode of 30 Rock.

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Quoting ZehDon,

reply 51

Quoting k10w3, reply 48That's not free...
To the end user, it's entirely free in every regard. I have to pay nothing for the free-to-air Television channels. I also don't have to pay anything for access to free-to-air Radio stations. They are, without exception, free.

Quoting k10w3, reply 48...That's paid for by advertising by big corporate interests, so watching "free" television is actually indoctrination to purchase the advertiser's products, which is rather agonizing to the poor, since they don't have the money to purchase those products...
Advertisers pay for the air time between programming segments, and display advertisements to sell their products. The more people watch a show, the higher the ratings the broadcast company receives, the more they can charge for access to the air time between their programming. The end user is under no obligation to purchase any of the products displayed and are free at any moment to change channel to avoid the advertisements. Regardless of their income, or lack there of, the Television station and the programs and movies displayed on it remain free.
The advertising revenue generated from selling that time is used to fund television programs - pay actors, build sets, hire writers. The end user - regardless of how rich or poor they are - pays nothing. This is the system, developed to ensure free broadcasting for all.

Quoting k10w3, reply 48...Reading a book from the library is a much wiser form of entertainment for the poor.
Well, if we're discussing what they should be doing, perhaps they should be locating a second job so they can stop being poor? Or furthering their education to hold a better paying job? Or developing a new technology in their free time, so that they can patent it and make enough money to stop being poor? Or, maybe, we shouldn't tell people what to do.
In your opinion, reading is better. However, coming home after a double shift to half a meal because its all they can afford, I doubt many of them would really want to read Atlas Shrugged, as opposed to watch the next episode of 30 Rock.

You're FUNNY!

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Blaze of Glory

Join Date 04/2006

+27

Why do folks like bringing up "Atlas Shrugged"? It is a piece of junk. 30 Rock crack wrapped into a bad manifesto. "If I put my finger in a glass of water, then remove it, the hole will remain because I am so it!" mentality makes me ill. Dagny is a worse tramp than Bella in Twilight!

The topic of this thread seems to be against everything the book is supposedly about as well! Corporations with bad business models using the government to keep them afloat!

So to stay somewhat on topic, I will give an example.

Music Industry

Old Method

Hire artists and have them crank out songs to bundle into albums and sell them for $15 bucks or more. When demand dies down, sell it for $9.99. Pay the artist next to nothing until they become so big, the jerks demand huge sums from you to distribute their, not your, work.

Once upon a time, the industry sold "albums" or "LPs" (long playing record) that could be played on a turntable, record player, but essentially what was 100 year old technology, the phonograph.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonograph

Then came the invention of the 8 track tape (horrid, but recordable) and then the cassette. When the cassette was two sided, man, what a life! The quality wasn't good, but you could record on them. So folks made their own playlists of favorite songs. You couldn't shuffle, couldn't skip to the next song very easily and if you recorded over the top, bleedthrough (hearing artifacts from previous recordings) would occur. This also made it to where folks could record a song from the radio or from a friends LP. As I said, the quality wasn't that good. If you really liked the music, you had to buy the original to hear it as it was meant.

Folks were not happy with paying the price for a whole album when all they wanted was one song on the record. So they recorded it from the radio or a friend. The music industry tried to stop the recording ability of the cassette, but lost. Some would think that was a wake up call, but the music industry didn't listen.

Then came the digital age. All bets are off. You can record music almost perfectly! Add in shuffle and making your own playlists was a breeze and it was an instant hit! Life was good! It also made it to where swapping copies was easy. The hot bed of theft? Colleges! Having servers where folks could copy things to and from made file sharing easy. Peer-to-peer networks in dorms where quick and easy. All else fails, copy it to a cd! I am not saying workplaces didn't do this as well, but businesses generally frown upon you throwing gigs of pirated material on their servers they are paying for. The music industry sued the colleges and universities (deeper pockets than students) and a lot of that stopped, at least on the servers.

Next, add in the Internet and file sharing. BOOM goes the dynamite! Demand meets supply. File swapping servers popup. Napster was the first big one, but others soon followed. Why won't these people just buy the whole CD for $10 - $20? Because it wasn't worth it! I am not saying it is right, but there was no other format for just getting one song.

New Method

Steve Jobs finally did what everyone was saying. $1 a song, so now you could get 10 or 20 songs off several different albums for a fraction of the cost. Did the music industry like it? Of course not. They resisted it at first, but once the money started rolling in, they changed their minds.

The problem? The horse had left the barn! Many kids and adults now view it as why change what I have been doing? Well, because it is wrong! But everyone does it! It is still wrong. However, the system arose in part because of a demand not getting met.

Conclusion

So the recording industry dragged their collective feet and helped create the piracy in the first place. Now they want the government and our tax dollars to help charge outrageous settlement fees to users. What do you think the odds are they are going to give much to the artists who they hold up as being wronged and starving? I am going with not good odds on that one. Look, I am all for charging people for pirated material at fair market value and a reasonable fee/fine. Thousands of bucks for something that is worth a couple of hundred? Extortion.

PS.

You can learn more about economics from this video than "Atlas Shrugged"

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AqtJnO1z.O0r_TiWxqrv_SCbvZx4?fr=yfp-t-701-s&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF8&p=fear%20the%20boom%20and%20bust

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Nothing good ever comes out of these mass witch-hunts. Nothing.

There's only one way to get people to do anything: stop consuming their stuff. The policy would change tomorrow if everyone simply agreed to not use stuff from companies that persecute individuals in this manner. It's not easy, mind you, but it is simple. If we don't force corporations to work on our terms, the alternative is to passively accept whatever policies they decide and grumble about it.

Basically, if people are serious about changing the policy, they're going to have to organize.

Now, piracy isn't "right" by any stretch of the imagination. I'd go far as to say that it's wrong. But, in a time where disposable income isn't so disposable and jobs are stretched thin, frankly, I see why people do pirate things and the people that do pirate are, in fact, pretty much everybody. Personally, I'd love to see donation-ware take off, but someone will post a million reasons why that won't work.

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Quoting Jafo,

reply 45

Exactly. There are (sadly) plenty of sites people can go to Online and see Movies still playing in theaters. Most times its some crappy Cam that's of low quality. Other times it's a DvD Screener that got leaked. Either way the person watching it isn't actually "Downloading" anything. It's buffered and streamed. The person watching it does Not have a copy of whatever the movie or show is sitting on their computer.

Oh for christ's sake don't ever try that argument/excuse again.

Give it a rest. It DOES NOT WORK.

When you watch the 'streamed/downloaded/through a peephole in a locked door...WHATEVER the means...yes WHATEVER METHOD it is DISTRIBUTION without consent of the copyright holder.

It is THE ACT TRANSMISSION and of VIEWING without authority/consent from the copyright holder that is the breach of the Law.

Every time a person watches a pirated film/etc they are denying the actors/crew/etc a livelihood.

Ask people who work in the film industry...they'll make it quite clear to you how it affects them. FYI I have a long-time friend who is a voter in the Academy....one who helps give these 'stars' of yours their gongs....but just like the undercutting of [western] manufacture by the cheap- labour East, people....even ones you might know....will be hurting .... because a rule of some form or another is bent or broken.

Chillax Jafinator, I AGREE with you

Here's what I don't agree with though. The Gov is mostly shutting down and going after the WRONG people web-sites. Example: Watch.Movies-tv.whatever... (no I'm Not posting the actual link, which is back UP by the way)

That site in it's-self doesn't HOST anything. You can't download or upload Anything to them, nor do they share files or torrents. The only thing that site is guilty of is listing the places that DO HOST the Actual Movies like Movshare, Novamov, Vidbox, etc etc. Those are the sites doing the Hosting that NEED to be Shut Down. Those are the ACTUAL CRIMINALS. NOT Watch.Movies-Tv.whatever . The ONLY thing that site Might be guilty of is "enabling" by showing people how to go to sites like Movshar, YouTube, etc etc.

WHY Aren't they shutting down the Actual Offenders? Because those sites are in China and a bunch of other countries and not in the US. Also notice however that it's the "Department of Immigration" that's heading these "Investigations" so maybe, just maybe, they'll petition these other countries to go after the RIGHT web-sites.

Shutting down LimeWire and IMesh and Peer to Peer programs are a Good and Right Start, but they're already messing up by shutting down sites that aren't doing anything wrong but showing lists. To me them shutting down some of these minor sites is just as stupid if they would come in here and shut down Stardock because of my "Comprehensive Ideas List" post hosted in the Elemental Ideas section of our forums. Yes, I know it's the "Content" of the "lists" that's the problem, but in moral practice some of these sites are only being gone after because they know they can score a easy win in court and make some money.

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We exist in a world where the legal rights of the copyright holder exceed the legal rights of those who wish to experience the copyrighted material. The artist, the art and the audience are irrelevant. All that matters is that the copyright holder is paid their demanded price to allow you to experience their copyrighted material in the manner you're told to experience it in. All else is noise. If the ACTA is enacted, and contains the currently leaked clauses, this will become the global standard and authorities will have the needed power to act in unison to shutdown any and all pirating operations using any and all means. The will of the Copyright holders will be law and individual privacy will become a secondary to Corporate profits. If this occurs, my moto of "Piracy is never justified" will be laid to rest.

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Quoting MagicwillNZ,

reply 54

Go ahead stop consuming their stuff, for me I won't. I have nothing to worry about, everything I have obtained(music,movies,software)has been done legally...

Force corporations to work on our terms (that made me laugh). It's their stuff so they have every right to set the terms on how we consume it.

If you don't like their terms, then like you said "stop consuming their stuff".

Quoting MagicwillNZ,

reply 54

Umm...not pretty much everybody, just another poor attempt at trying to justify a reason to pirate.

It's a lot easier taking responsibility for an action than trying to justify one. No worries of what could happen if I got caught!

If I can't afford it, I either save for it or I just don't obtain it and have never nor will ever pirate STEAL it!!!

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StevenAus22

Join Date 06/2010

+110

There is seldom only one side to any story.

I don't pirate at all and I disagree with pirating. And the Humble Indie Bundle incident did not help. But then again, check out the cost of Civ 5 on Steam in Australia when we pay via USD too...

Best regards,
Steven

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1753

The only thing that site is guilty of is listing the places that DO HOST the Actual Movies like Movshare, Novamov, Vidbox, etc etc.

Look up the phrase..."aiding and abetting"....

It's always curious...in debates re piracy that it always boils down to....the common man vs. corporate greed.

Well wake up, folks.....sometimes it's the little/common man whose property is being stolen by OTHER little men.

Fortunately there are 'big men' [corporations] who have the money/pull to force changes through legislation, etc that protects EVERYONE who has property to protect.

The debates re piracy are pretty pathetic when it is reduced to fat cats vs. the underdog. It is a childish and inane argument, only perpetrated by those who have nothing being pirated who MAYBE don't do it themselves....but will fight to the death to protect anyone else who DOES.

They are criminals. One day the Law will grow enough balls of its own to castrate those who do.

No, brat, if you cannot afford whatever....you go without. You do not take.

It does not matter whether the system is archaic/drakonian or 'unjust'.

Ooh....I choose to ignore YOUR reality and abide by my own....I'll rape/murder/speed/steal/whatever.....as I see fit....afterall I DID NOT MAKE THE RULES...so why should I abide by them?

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Weee, corporate government (sarcasm). To think that I've actually paid for so many things and will probably not live to see the end of this end user hassel. Reminds me of how ea is starting require a constant internet connection for their published video games, regardless of whether it's single player or multi-player.

Edit: I refuse to buy and/or play that latest settlers because of this hassle .

Thanks for posting, Blaze of Glory. My thoughts on the matter are similar and it was fun to read. Yay for cassettes, I remember taking a cassette recording of reptile's song from the mortal kombat album that I got for my birthday to show my cousin, which got recorded over shortly after by a younger cousin.

Edit: Afterthought: I love Stardock Can't wait to see what the modding community and the developers add to Elemental. Cheers for this topic and Stardock in general.

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StevenAus22

Join Date 06/2010

+110

The truth is, while it might not be a case of "the common man vs. corporate greed" TM, it is also not a case of "everything corporations and government do is honest and above board" TM. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

I think Stardock is a great company, and is a huge example of games and fan association done *right*. Oh, and less DRM.

Best regards,
Steven.

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I appreciate the amount of insane sycophancy this has elicited from people here. Why, precisely, are people so perversely pleased that every kid too stupid to own a decent firewall is going to have his parents sued into homelessness? I'm not quite seeing how this is helping anyone.

I don't know why people continue to get all riled about pirates and censorship, the outcome is immensely predictable. It has been proven time and again that the pirates will always be ahead of those chasing and blocking them. Take SPORE for instance, with its fancy and intrusive DRM. "Unbreakable!" they said. One month after release it was the most pirated game to date. Some would argue this serves as a lesson to developers that sacrifice the legitimate customer and the art in the pursuit of pirates. PIRATES WILL ALWAYS FIND A WAY. Live with it. Do something crazy like, I don't know, give people a reason to want to buy your products legitimately. Possibly even start treating the customers like valued patrons rather than f*ucking criminals. And while we're at it, spending less money on advertising and more on original IP and some *gasp* originality and a sense of exploration with their games/films/whatever couldn't hurt either.

I'm not crazy though. I won't hold my breath.

Something else companies forget, a very important point: Pirates are also your best paying customers. Yes, yes, it IS hard to believe that people who download a lot of films/games/whatever also LIKE and BUY a lot of media. Insanity, I know, but true. Sensible people like to try their games before they sink money into them, they like to watch the first few episodes of a series online before sinking a mountain of cash on the box set.

And so, after all this running around and frothing at the bit, the only people suffering are those that are too ignorant to practice discretion getting offered up at the alter of corporate appeasement (like the notorious "metallica girl" case), while the sensible pirates (vicious criminals that they are!) continue to do what they do.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1753

Something else companies forget, a very important point: Pirates are also your best paying customers.

OK....you're just yanking a chain here with that one.

No matter how you will want to apply the spin, the people who pay for a product are the 'best customers'.

People who don't pay for a product....[and don't 'borrow' it] are by definition NOT customers.

People who pirate a product are depriving the owner of an income through its legitimate purchase. [yes, I know...the old BS about nothing actually being 'physically taken'.....but the pirate is "enjoying the product" without the applicable surcharge].

[out with the old Ferrari analogy].....you do NOT TAKE a Ferrari via "Midnight Autos" ...just to see...."oh, not bad....I think I might buy one."

If the dealer does not offer you a test-drive you actually have NO RIGHT to simply take one anyway.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1753

And just befoe you argue again that a pirated warez 'taster' subsequently buys the software [oh good for him] in the process he has aided and abetted the pirate through the accessing of the warez/site thus adding to the pirate's/site's advertising profitability.

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Quoting Jafo,

reply 59

Oh, fuck....I don't have any money...I'm just a poor student/dropout/child/unemployed who cannot afford to pay for that new game/movie/record so I'll just 'borrow' it online....no-one will know/get hurt/care.

No, brat, if you cannot afford whatever....you go without. You do not take.

It does not matter whether the system is archaic/drakonian or 'unjust'.

Ooh....I choose to ignore YOUR reality and abide by my own....I'll rape/murder/speed/steal/whatever.....as I see fit....afterall I DID NOT MAKE THE RULES...so why should I abide by them?

Oh but maybe hes just a brat couse the system made him so. Maybe if he had rich parents he could have gone to a good shool, learned like hell and discovered the cure for cancer. Maybe he even would have thought like you: that piracy its a problem from SHIT people and not from companys being monopolys or the system based on the rich living on the poors. Yet he wasnt so luck so he is no more a human, he doesnt have feelings, needs nor desires. He just has to fuck off and be happy to "live" without all the luxurys we have, or even worse, luxurys at all.

I wrote this couse it pisses me off the hiper capitalists speeches. Specially when one puts himself above the other, like being superior. You know (even if its really deep in your soul) that we all are humans, and all deserve at least the basic things. So if the system isnt fair, how can you complain when they "cheat"? Where is that justice you speak on first place? Its just too easy seeing things from our side. Maybe he sees only his side , but us, who are more literated? Whats our excuse for not seeng his?

Note: Im a graphic designer and know very well what is see your work taken.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1753

He just has to fuck off and be happy to "live" without all the luxurys we have, or even worse, luxurys at all.

No...he can fuck off and be miserable with his deprivation. That's life.

The world does not owe anyone a life of luxury....heck it's even a horror [it seems] to legislate to at least give people reasonable access to medical care....some countries are truly in the dark ages of pure blatant capitalism with that one.

Marx didn't win....so Socialism is [mostly] dead, but perhaps the idealism of Socialism might see him sharing 'luxuries' with others....but what tends to be the case is that simply everyone goes without.....all dragged to a [lowest] common denominator.

People shouldn't die simply because they are unable to afford health care.....but that's a slightly [sarcasm] bigger issue than some kid/whatever going without the latest Nintendo game.

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WebGizmos

Join Date 09/2003

+735

Exactly. There are (sadly) plenty of sites people can go to Online and see Movies still playing in theaters. Most times its some crappy Cam that's of low quality. Other times it's a DvD Screener that got leaked. Either way the person watching it isn't actually "Downloading" anything. It's buffered and streamed. The person watching it does Not have a copy of whatever the movie or show is sitting on their computer.

Either way though, now those people too can be sued just because your ISP has a record of you going to their website and watching a movie.

So now the bottom line questions is....,

Is the person who watched a ripped movie online just as guilty as the person who uploads and downloads the same movie?

Most of us would probably say yes. Some of us may say no. The Movie Makers and the Law will say YES, and then those people who couldn't afford to go to the movies and who didn't even download anything will be Fined up the Wazoo until their children starve and can't afford to go to college because they parents got sued for watching the latest Shrek Movie online and some movie maker didn't get his $8.

I understand what your saying...but here's the flaw in this. If you view a movie online knowing it's a recent release still in theaters and your not paying for it...you just simply have to know it's wrong to do it and even though you don't have a copy...it's still wrong under the law. And if someones dumb enough to do it "knowing full well" your ISP will have a record of you doing it...well...sucks to be you...meet your new bunk mate...bubba. And besides that...for someone like myself who can't afford to go to the movies..I know the majority of the movies end up on regular TV anyway so I can just watch it then. And games end up in stores that sell used games cheaper than they were. It's just a matter of patience. Then I get to watch the movie and not get sued. As far as games...I don't play many games because they are way to expensive...even the cheap ones...but I'm old enough where my wants won't hurt me.

The bottom line is this...if you didn't pay for something with a price tag on it...you either stole it which "everyone knows is against the law" or someone gave their paid for copy to you...which is entirely different. Period. Any other argument is someone trying to justify stealing. Plain and simple. And in the end the one stealing is just screwing it up for the rest of us by way of stronger anti theft measures that might require you to jump through hoops to view or play something you paid for.

Now...if I were going to steal something...it would have to be at least a million dollars.

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The thing about being able to think is that one can change things, even if its with very small steps, like the one you are doing in you country with the medical care. (well, that one its not "little" at all)

Knowing how the world works, understanding other people and trying to make things more equal for all even in logic/small/simple things like voting or donations (when one can) its changing the world for the better. One can escape many things, but never his moral and/or conscience.

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Quoting Jafo,

reply 66

Why does americans mix socialism and communism? The whole of Western Europe is more or less a socialist society, but not a communist one.

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Fuzzy Logic

Join Date 05/2002

+493

I'm going to give up my job. That way I'll have no money, but everything will be free, right?

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Quoting joasoze,

reply 69

Why does americans mix socialism and communism? The whole of Western Europe is more or less a socialist society, but not a communist one.

As an American myself, I never understood why most of us think that way either, Joasoze. It's most likely a by-product of mass cold-war indoctrination through the media in the 80's and early 90's before the Berlin Wall came down. Most of those who are "adults" in the US now grew up or lived through the 80's and almost every movie, cartoon, video game, you name it, if they had a "bad guy" in them...those "bad guys" were either Nazis or Soviets. All those kids growing up during that time were more or less brain washed into thinking "Communism/Socialism = EVIL". I never got that, not at all.

To me, even as a American, a TRULY Socialist Society would be awesome. The problem here is it only works in "Theory" and NEVER in Practice. Why? Human Greed!!! Now our politicians use the collapse of the Soviet Union as an example that Communism can never work because the Soviet version of Communism was corrupt.

In a TRUE Socialist or Communist Society, everyone, no matter what job they had, would make the same wages. Everyone would have the same level of education. Everyone would have the same health benefits. In "Theory" life would be Great for Everyone!!!

Unfortunately when Reality sets in someone always thinks they should be more entitled then the next guy in line. I can't tell you the name of one Doctor or Lawyer on the PLANET that would be "ok" with making the same amount of money per year as a Garbage Man or a McDonalds Employee.

Most Americans are also Brain Washed into thinking Communism means we all have to drive the same kind of car and wear the same clothes and eat the same food and have the same hair cut....which it does Not. That only happens when you take away a person's freedom to choose. I would think that TRUE Communism would rather give More Choice, not less. Why? Because now ALL Kinds of Cars Cost the SAME. A Ferrari cost the same as a Toyota in a True Communist Society. You can go to ANY Restaurant you want now because it cost the same to eat at ANY of them, whether it's the local fast food joint of fine dining in a high class Restaurant.

Of course to most Americans even thinking about a system like that scares them to death because everyone wants to be better then everyone else. It's a sad fact of life I think we'll always face as a Species until we are ALL United under One Common Goal or Leader.

What we really, Really, Need....is for the Earth to be Invaded by Aliens. I know that sounds "stupid", but it would be the One Thing that could unite us as a entire species because then we'd have another species to funnel our anger and greed at instead of doing it too each other.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1753

Couple of problems there....I'm not American....and I didn't grow up in the 80's ....

As for being united as one if invaded by Aliens....as long as some idiot US president doesn't jump into the nearest fighter and launch the airstrike the rest of the world won't have to suspend reality to enjoy another silly flick.....

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Quoting Jafo,

reply 63

Something else companies forget, a very important point: Pirates are also your best paying customers.

OK....you're just yanking a chain here with that one.

No matter how you will want to apply the spin, the people who pay for a product are the 'best customers'.

People who don't pay for a product....[and don't 'borrow' it] are by definition NOT customers.

You seem to be getting confused here. Pirates BUY (with cash monies) more than the average consumer.

This has always been the case, at least with pirates over the age of 12. However nowadays with things like Steam, Impulse, Gamersgate, iTunes etc.etc. making purchases more convenient than ever it is becoming more and more the case. Why pirate something when you can buy it for next to nothing? It is convenient and fast.

With regard to the rest of your argument: You sound a lot like those hammy anti-pirate ads they put on the beginning of films. "You wouldn't steal a CAR? Your Wouldn't steal a HANDBAG? Well if you pirated this film you are JUST AS BAD!" I suppose except for the scale (pennies) penalties (small fine) and emotional harm cause (none) it is completely identical in every way.. oh wait...

So, instead of everyone acting like they were traumatised by pirates at an early age and now have a personal vendetta against them, why not take a leaf out of Valve and Apple's books? Pander to the pirates, offer this vast and sophisticated audience what they want and you will make your money back. If the market does not bend to the changes taking place then they will continue to suffer from pirating, much like the movie business is now. As life has constantly taught us: change or die.

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Quoting Raven X,

reply 71

Quoting joasoze, reply 69

Of course to most Americans even thinking about a system like that scares them to death because everyone wants to be better then everyone else. It's a sad fact of life I think we'll always face as a Species until we are ALL United under One Common Goal or Leader.

What we really, Really, Need....is for the Earth to be Invaded by Aliens. I know that sounds "stupid", but it would be the One Thing that could unite us as a entire species because then we'd have another species to funnel our anger and greed at instead of doing it too each other.

Or... the Anti-Christ...

Think about it.

Anywho, one thing got my attention here, and I'll probably have one of those insanely long posts, so bear with me.

While piracy *IS* stealing... when it comes down to it, it doesn't really affect the music industry, hollywood, or even video game companies, as much as some people like to think. Like this quote from page 2 by Jafo...

Ask people who work in the film industry...they'll make it quite clear to you how it affects them. FYI I have a long-time friend who is a voter in the Academy....one who helps give these 'stars' of yours their gongs....but just like the undercutting of [western] manufacture by the cheap- labour East, people....even ones you might know....will be hurting .... because a rule of some form or another is bent or broken.

Indie movies... MAYBE. But big hollywood productions? I think not...

That latest Twilight movie cost about 68 million dollars to make. In just 1 week in theaters, that movie has earned $161,000,000. That's almost $100 million in profit. In a single week. If they can't pay their staff, maybe they should figure out a way to distribute that money a little more wisely. We'll look at some others as well.

Toy Story 3? $200 Million budget to produce. After three weeks in the theaters, $289,000,000. Profit: $89 million.

The Karate Kid: $40 million to produce. After 1 month in theaters, $151,623,000 in earnings. Profit of $111 million.

I could go on... and on... and on.. and...

But I won't. And yes, some movies make laughable amounts in the box office. Because they suck and nobody wants to go see them. And I'm 99.9995643% positive that Twilight is being pirated far more than Marmaduke.

And I won't say much about the music industry, because it's pretty obvious that the ONLY people who make money on album sales are record companies. Obviously, "Lil' Wayne" hasn't felt the music piracy heat, living in that mansion of his, because music piracy hardly affects the "artists" at all...

Just watch an episode of MTV's Cribs... that shit's disgusting.

That whole "it hurts people" argument got old ten years ago. Little Timmy isn't starving because his daddy couldn't afford to gas up his Ferrari and hit the Get-In-Get-Out after some 14 year old didn't pay him to watch Avatar.

It's one thing if much smaller companies (or independent persons) like Stardock or individual programmers (or even skinners) have their work stolen. They actually take a hit from that. But you don't see them working with the government, suing people for downloading their stuff. It's big name companies like Vivendi who are pissed because they didn't get their $10 because that kid downloaded that movie instead of buying the DVD.

Raven has it correct in a lot of instances. Including video games. Ubisoft's DRM *IS* getting a lot of praise from other companies. And it's taking even more evil forms. Look at EA. A couple of their latest titles have the multiplayer component locked unless you purchase access to their servers. Sure, you get a free code when you purchase the game new, but anyone who has plans of buying that game used from a friend or from Gamestop is going to have to shell out another 15 bucks just to play half of what's already on the disk. Not to mention, EA's servers are known to be terrible, and they have a tendency of shutting them down within 2 years of a game's release anyway.

Sure, piracy should be stopped, in one way or another. But it's NEVER going to happen. There will always be piracy, no matter how many times you sue them or lock them up. And in the end, when the companies realize that it isn't doing any good, the only option they think they have is to raise prices to combat the "millions of dollars" they say they're losing to pirates.

And then guess who has to pay $20 to go to the theater instead of $10?

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