questions

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Depends on the map.  Generally on more spacious maps you want to go with colony capital ships, and on close-range maps you want to go with carrier capital ships.

Again, depends on your situation.  Generally the high priority techs are ice/volcanic colonization on the civic side, and repair platforms and long range frigates on the military side (carriers and flak frigates are also useful).  Otherwise, you only pick up your techs marginally and instead focus your cash into building units and colonizing planets.

Basically as fast as you are able.  Early-game colonization is big.

Again, repair platforms, long range frigates, and maybe flaks and carriers are your top priority.  For TEC the hoshiko is also high priority.  On the civic side, ice/volcanic colonization.  You may want to skip civic labs (particularly if the enemy is close-by or if you're on slower game-speeds) and go pure military.

thanks a lot

also another thing, where do i find a colorful space background (for example as seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E34f0lGxj2o) as opposed to the plain black one? 

and how powerful are the starbases and which upgrades should i buy for them 

btw i'm playing diplomacy if that makes any difference

 

In one of the options tabs there is a bunch of checkboxes, two of which say "Use Deep Space Skyboxes" and "Use Color Skyboxes". I am actually unsure what effects each does but just switch them on and off until you get a skybox you want.

Starbases can be quite powerful. The best upgrades depend on what you want them to do and especially which race you are playing as.

You probably have sky boxes turned of in the "Effects" options for the background.

Star bases are the best for choke points and continuing a trade lane. Upgrade weapons and hull 1st or they're an expensive target.

"Color skyboxes" are pretty much all color in the background...purple, green, red, orange, light blue, blue..."Deep Space skyboxes" are mostly black, with some added color (like a blue streak to represent a nebula) but are mostly just black space...if both color and deep space skyboxes are turned off, you'll just get plain, black space...you can play with both on, both off, or just one on (I personally like the colored ones, but not the deep space, so I turn just the deep space ones off)...

GoaFan77 is correct...each time you turn the colored skyboxes off, then on again, a different skybox comes up...so if you start a game, and hate the light green skybox you started with (or whatever), toggle the colored skybox thing until you get a colored background you like...

As for starbases, remember that you can only pick 8 upgrades, and you can't change your mind, so choose carefully...

In general, you will almost always eventually want all of the defense upgrades (3 for TEC/Advent, 4 for Vasari)...starbases are big investments, you don't want to risk losing them...

The other upgrades are highly dependent on the position you are defending, and if the starbase will be on its own, or supported by some fleet...

I can't address every situation for every faction, but I can tell you what three setups I generally go with...

TEC - 3 Defense, 2 Repair, 2 Weapons...the repair ability is great at healing defenses (which don't benefit from shield mitigation or have shields) and supporting your fleet, so I almost always go with it...a construction upgrade is a good choice if the starbase is in an uncolonizable gravity well or ally's gravity well, since it will allow you to build ships there...

Advent - 3 Defense, 2 Meteor Storm, 2 Mass Disorientation...the 3 culture upgrades, in certain situations, can be really good if the starbase is close to an enemy gravity well with few logistic slots (such as an asteroid) since the starbase culture is very strong and can overrun enemy planets that don't have much culture...

Vasari - 2-3 Weapons, 3-4 Defense, 1-2 Deflector Shield...Deflector shield lvl 2 is very powerful, and arguably more useful than getting the 4th defense upgrade...the phase stabilizer upgrade also isn't bad for starbases in uncolonizable or ally gravity wells, as it allows your fleet to get there quickly...

Trade upgrades are not a bad choice for any starbase in an uncolonizable gravity well...the upgrade that prevents loss of a planet through bombardment also isn't a bad idea if you play with pirates, but otherwise its generally looked down upon...

Pound for pound, starbases offer unmatched muscle.  They're exorbitantly expensive to fully upgrade, but once upgraded the things are virtually impregnable powerhouses.  The flipside is that they can't be redeployed into another gravity well, so they don't do a lot of good against an enemy who ignores and bypasses them.  This makes them more useful against the AI than a human player.

With few exceptions, starbase upgrades are all worthwhile.  The first two weapon and health upgrades are agiven for a combat-oriented starbase, and in many cases you can stop there.  However, each faction has their own goodies.  You have to be careful with security override protocol (TEC) but it's a real game-winner if you pull it out at the right time.  Meteor control and mass disorientation (Advent) are both awesome, and Vasari can get a lot of mileage out of frontal deflectors and debris vortex.  The only ones I'd avoid are Induced Reverence (for Advent) and Colony Pods (for Vasari); if you want an economic upgrade on your starbase, get trade ports.  

For a typical starbase, I'll stike with 2-4 upgrades, occasionally going up to 6.  You rarely want to fill out all 8 slots because it's a good idea to keep a slot open in case you need a specific upgrade later, and it's just a bad idea to sink so much money into a single structure.

The most important thing when using starbases is to ensure you build some repair platforms nearby.  This has a big effect on their longevity in battle, and I'd make sure to always have at least two repair platforms right up against my starbase.  Some people like to add in turrets and hangers, personally I only do this when I'm in panic mode and need to really fortify the location in question.



With respect to the questions you've asked, no.

 

Oh, Darvin 3, You are so wrong, to my opinion. Why do you get rid of Other three types? Especially if you play advent - level2 of Radiance allowa you to get a squad,

He is not wrong at all.  The carrier caps are sadly the most OP for all 3 races due to well intentioned but unneeded buffs due to community nagging.  The other 3 types of caps have their uses but far and away the carrier caps are better for the resources spent.  Yes a level 2 radiance allows 1 squad but a level 1 halcyon can have 4 squads.  A skirantra(the most OP of the 3 carrier caps) can spam HUGE amounts of bombers.  A radiance is a distant 3rd place to the halcyon and progenitor.

 

[_]-Greyfox

Even that's arguable; many people value the Revelation and the Rapture higher.  The Radiance is a one-trick pony with its detonate antimatter ability (which is at least a very slick trick), so you could argue that the more versatile Rapture or the equally type-cast Revelation are its superiors. 

Frankly, that's the issue with Advent balance right now; the Progenitor and Halcyon are clearly a notch above the other three, which are relatively well balanced against each other.  Greyfox and Cykur are of the opinion that the Halcyon (and perhaps Progenitor?) should be nerfed down to their level.  I'm the opinion that they should be all buffed up to the level of the Halcyon, and the only capital ship that needs a nerf is the Skirantra.

Anyways, the bottom line is that carriers definitely outclass battleships and siege capital ships, and vastly outclass support capital ships.  The only battleship capital ships that even come close to the strength of carriers are the Kortul and the Marza (which strictly speaking is a siege-class), and even those are risky and difficult choices to pull off.  With the  Skirantra buff of 1.19, the Kortul opener (and every other conceivable Vasari opener) is effectively dead, while anything weak to bombers (like the Marza) is borderline suicide.

 

Since we're on the topic anyways, here's my personal opinion of capital ship ranking (from overall best to worst; situation obviously changes these rankings somewhat):

1. Skirantra (Vasari Carrier)
2. Halcyon (Advent Carrier)
3. Progenitor (Advent Colony)
4. Sova (TEC Carrier)
5. Akkan (TEC Colony)
6. Kortul (Vasari Battleship)
7. Jarrasul (Vasari Colony)
8. Marza (TEC Siege)
9. Radiance (Advent Battleship)
10. Vulkoras (Vasari Siege)
11. Rapture (Advent Support)
12. Kol (TEC Battleship)
13. Revelation (Advent Siege)
14. Dunov (TEC Support)
15. Antorak (Vasari Support)

 

I've tried different starting caps in MP just for the hell of it, and I'd find a hard argument for any ships other than the carriers and colonizers...

There are three things in MP that make carriers and colonizers the best...

One, expansion...cost effective and fast expansion is crucial....this means not only expanding quickly, but doing it without the necessity of a large fleet...this usually amounts to wiping out krosovs then building turrets while your fleet moves on to colonize another world...colonizing cap ships are good because colony ships get shot down if you don't wipe out militias, and carrier caps provide SC, the single best thing to quickly wipe out krosovs...

Two, gamespeed...SC don't require much mirco-management, and the abilities on the three carrier caps don't require much micro-management either...there are some good abilities out their (detonate antimatter, reverie, magnetize, etc) but they usually require micromanagement...otherwise they'll likely be used at the wrong time or on some frigate...micro-management is difficult on fast and faster game speed since your higher resource income forces your attention elsewhere even if there's a battle going on...and if you have a bad connection or a laggy game, you can just forget about micromanagement...carrier caps aren't just OP, they require little effort or skill to manage

Three, military composition...pretty much anyone who plays MP will be rushing LRFs (except maybe Advent, but there aren't many Advent players out there), and the best thing against LRFs is fighters...the best thing against HCs and Capital ships is bombers, so throughout all stages of the game, SC are your best counter to the mainstay ship of any enemy fleet...LRFs (at least LRMs and Kanraks) will take down a low level capital ship very easily, meaning you will have to keep your first cap out of most battles unless you have repair bays...this means you will be kiting, and if you are kiting, the only firepower your cap ship is contributing is its SC...

In a few limited circumstances, I can see arguments for a dunov or revelation...a dunov is a good counter against a skirantra (which I'd say there's a 50 50 shot any given player you fight will have built one...or two) and the revelation's clairvoyance is good for gathering intel, but even then you are probably better at saving those ships for a 2nd pick...

In single player or in MP games with few players and normal speed, I'd agree with you PheonixStormcrow...the other caps are worth considering, but even then carriers and colonizers are going to always be strong choices...

 

I have always been of the opinion that they(carrier caps) never needed buffing to begin with.  If you see that as being in favor of a nerf, then sure.  There were many perfectly reasonable uses for them prior to them being buffed.  They were not weak caps at all.  In fact halcyon was even then a good 2nd pick behind a progenitor for advent.  Skirantra was a decent pick for vasari as well.  Sova had its uses but mostly situational(for sova rush for example).  Now you have NO CHOICE but to build at least 1 carrier cap.  Building anything else now severely hampers your ability to win or even hold your own against someone who does(IE. everyone else).

 

[_]-Greyfox

Unfortunately this is very true...why carriers were buffed in the first place is a real mystery to me...my only guess is people complained too much about the Halcyon being OP (which is not true) so the Sova and Skirantra were buffed...

Advent capital ships should be more powerful (if ever so slightly) than the other two faction's...Advent don't get LRFs as early, have expensive ships all around, and the worst economy...I'll be damned if they aren't at least given the most powerful caps and late game fleet...

TEC cap ships should be buffed to the level where the Sova and Akkan aren't the default "go to"s when picking a cap ship...likewise, Advent ships should be polished to where all 5 are good choices, not just the Halcyon...as for the Vasari, Skirantra needs to be nerfed to pre 1.19 and the antorak and vulkoras need a good upgrade...

I think Darvin is right, the Skirantra should be nerfed, but all the other caps should be brought up to the level of the Halcyon instead of "oh carriers are OP, lets nerf them"...the only overpowered ship is the Skirantra, and even then half of its OPness comes from the Vasari being borderline OP themselves...

I hope SD releases another patch...the last one was an absolute disaster, a single patch should not cause half of MP players to jump the Vasari bandwagon and force everyone to build a carrier if they want even half a chance of surviving in MP...

Untrue; all capital ships need about the same micromanagement, and very few abilities should ever be left on autocast.  Moreover, micromanagement isn't a big deal in this game, even on fastest game speeds.  Queuing up units, if you have your factories hotkeyed, is a 5 second job, and its not like these are Warcraft III battles where five seconds can be life and death for your entire army.




Never said you were wrong.  It's an opinion, and a very valid opinion at that.  Definitely something needs to give because they are outperforming everything else.  Either a nerf on their part, or a buff on the part of the other capital ships, or some combination to find middle-ground.

Personally, I think the Halcyon should be the target for capital ship strength and versatility; everything else should be balanced against its current performance.  Of course, I could definitely see your side that the Halcyon should have never been made as strong as it currently is, and the bar should be set lower.  It's all a matter of opinion.




On normal or slow speed, carrier capital ships are even more powerful and I would never consider anything other than a carrier or colony capital ship.  The reason is that carrier cruisers and larger fleets come out later in the game, and this gives a carrier capital ship a lot more punch in the early stages of the game.

 

Stardock is the publisher, Ironclad is the developer.  Ironclad is responsible for developing the patches, and SD distributes them on Impulse.  It's IC that needs to do the work if it's going to get done.

 

Agreed; I saw leaps and bounds in Vasari playstyle over 1.181, to the point at which if they survived the early-game they could go match with the bugged Advent illuminator and threaten a battleball.  The TEC were strong early, but they were no match against either faction later on.  I was screaming back in 1.181 that TEC was the weakest faction and their only redeeming quality was a strong economy and a good rush-game.

Advent is now gimped; without their illuminator they have a very hard time surviving, and the scout-nerf has crippled their alternate opener leaving them with few options in the early game.  On the other hand, Vasari with the most accessible LRF and weakest LF benefitted enormously from the scout nerf.  If it wasn't for the scramble buff, TEC could probably match them early-game, but Vasari would still have been unmatched as a late-game powerhouse.

Something's gotta give now, because with the allmighty illuminator finally put in its place there is no longer anything challenging Vasari for mid-late game dominance, and with a solid early-game (even without scramble) they're just the strongest faction overall.  You don't want to overnerf them, though, because we saw what happened to Advent when both the illuminator and the seeker/disciple rush were pulled out at the same time.

Since what times?!?

 the best thing against HCs and Capital ships is bombers

yes, but they are expensive to get, flaks will take them out 1-1

 

 And here is mine:

1) Skirantra

2) Rapture

3) Kortul

4) Radiance

5) Marza

6)Vulkoras

7) Sova

8) Revelation

9) Antorak

10) Jarrasul

11) Halcyon

12) Kol

13) Akkan

14) Dunov

15) Progenitor

Typo; fixed now.

Bombers do not get taken out by flaks 1:1, especially with a capital ship churning them out.  You need more like a 2:1 ratio, and if you want to clear them quickly (without fighters) you'll need 3:1.  Flak isn't nearly as effective against bombers as it is against fighters, and micro'd bombers can be a real pain in the neck.

And "bombers are expensive" is exactly why a carrier capital ship first is such a great investment, you get that kind of firepower as part of your capital ship package.  Capital ship strike craft are superior to cruiser strike craft for another reason; they don't require antimatter to build.  This means that a cruiser can become depleted (little more than an expensive paperweight at that point) whereas a capital ship will never become so depleted.  In early-game battles that can get drawn out by repair power, that's a big deal.

Hard to take you seriously there.  I can understand all the other relative rankings, even if I don't agree with them, but ranking the Halcyon and Progen so low makes you come across as either a joke or spiteful.  You're talking about two of the most powerful capital ships in the game.  They're practically carrying their otherwise gimped faction currently.

I agree that most abilities should be used manually, but I can't say all capital ships need the same amount of micromanagement...

The Skirantras scramble bombers simply is...you can leave this on autocast and more or less get the full effect...this isn't the only ability...Kortul's Power Surge, Kol's Adaptive Forcefield, Skirantra's Scramble Bombers, Halcyon's Telekinetic Push, Sova's Embargo, Progenitor's Shield Regeneration, all these abilities work well on autocast...I'm not saying manual use isn't better, but autocast works very well...might I note that of these 6 ships, 5 of them were listed in your top 6...

Some abilities however, are often not used on the best target when set on autocast and therefore require micromanagement to be even close to optimal use...these include Radiance's Detonate Antimatter, Jarrasul's Nano Disassembler, Dunov's Magnetize, Rapture's Vengeance, Antorak's Phase Hull, Revelation's Reverie...of these 6 ships, 5 of them were listed in your bottom 7...

Abilities aren't judged just by how powerful they are, but how efficiently they can be used...some abilities simply aren't used to their full potential unless manually controlled....other abilities work pretty well even when left on autocast...Carrier caps are excellent not just because their abilities are good, but because they don't require micromanagement...sure, you could micro embargo, or scramble bombers, or telekinetic push...but your manual control isn't going to be much better...

The less time I spend microing a battle, the more time I have to manage my resources...sure, you can stockpile, then que up frigates, stockpile, que of things, and repeat this cycle, but the more continuous and smoothly you use your resources, the more efficient your empire...really good players who are serious about the game can manage a battle while doing everything else with hotkeys and the empire tree, but even a good player can benefit from having to do less micromanagement...

If you were to take the typical MP game setup (usually quickstart, 4v4 or 5v5, large or huge single system) and simply put the speed on slow or normal, then yes, I'd agree with you...but I'm not talking about just a change in game speed...

If you reduce the number players, meaning there is more room per player, then colonizing capital ships become more powerful relative to carriers...in addition, rushing no longer becomes a feasible early strategy, weakening the power of carriers even more...also, more expansion combined with slower gamespeed means your flagship will see more combat with militia before you face a real enemy...lvl 5 and lvl 6 potential becomes more relevant, and this is where the non-carrier capital ships become a bit more competitive...you also have a lot longer to scout your enemy and prepare for whatever they are doing...this means that more, shall I say, unique ships become more useful...for example, most everyone would agree a marauder as a first choice is suicide, but on a map with more room, the distort gravity would allow you to rush a core enemy world when normally such would not be a possibility, even with a carrier cap...

Slow/normal games also tend to result in more frigates and less capital ships...at first this may seem like picking the best capital ship is even more important, but what if you combine this with the fact that fewer players means more room and the first skirmishes take place later?...if you were to play a 2v2 or 3v3 on a large or huge single system map, its likely that players are going to have carriers, anti-SC, and maybe even support ships (at least hoskikos) by the time of the first skirmishes, and HCs may follow shortly...the number of strike craft on your cap ship becomes less important, making carrier caps less significant...

I'm not saying these settings make other cap ships better choices than carriers or colonizers...I'm saying that more room and slower game speeds make non-carrier caps more viable (key word being more) than they'd be on typical MP games...

Ditto to that...unless really unlucky, a TEC/Vasari player should be able to wipe out an Advent player every time...illuminators are too little too late, and Halcyons simply aren't as good at rushing as a sova or skirantra...hell, with kanraks and LRMs both much better than illuminators, you're almost better rushing destras and forgetting LRF's entirely...

Sorry PheonixStormcrow, but I have a hard time agreeing with your list...Progenitors and Halcyons in the bottom third? 

Darvin has a pretty good list...given the extreme importance of rushing in many MP games, I'd be tempted to put the sova 2nd or 3rd, but overall Halcyons are better for most battle situations, and that's really just a nit picky difference...you can argue the order or switch them around, but I think he's got the top 6 nailed pretty good...

If I had to rank them this would be my list:

1) Skirantra

2) Halcyon

3) Sova

4) Progenitor

5) Akkan

6) Kortul

7) Jarrasul

8) Radiance

9) Marza

10) Dunov

11) Rapture

12) Revelation

13) Kol

14) Antorak

15) Vulkoras

I think the Dunov and Revelation deserve a little more credence, and the Vulkoras and Kol a little less...

All 3 Dunov abilities can, in certain situations, be very handy...it doesn't have one really good ability, but its got three that provide good support and versatility...Revelation I also gotta put a little higher...reverie and clairvoyance can just be too useful in certain situations to put that ship any lower...

I don't really see the power in the Vulkoras, but maybe I am missing something?

Kols I personally like because of their resilience, but from a practical standpoint they don't provide any support to the fleet, and I feel like 5 HCs are better unless that Kol is high level...

Nevertheless, good list Darvin, and definitely a solid top 6...

As someone who often enjoys singleplayer and non-competitive play, a part of me died when I put my 3 favorites at 10th, 12th, and 14th...

 

If you're doing a surge/strike build, sure.  If you're doing a surge/jam build, you want to go manual to conserve antimatter.


Nope, gotta ration antimatter on this beast.


Sure, though sometimes you'll want to go manual to conserve antimatter for repair cloud.


This is a poster-boy for abilities you should never put on autocast.  Period.  Telekinetic push requires careful timing and placement to be effective.


If you're going embargo/heavy ctrike craft, sure.  If you're doing a missile platform/embargo build, you want to go manual to conserve antimatter.


Sometimes, but certainly not all the time.

Beyond special abilities, however, there's the matter of maneuvering your capital ship in battle to use it effectively and keep it alive.  I find this is the bulk of your capital ship related management.




I can name five high-micro abilities from the top seven, as well: Telekinetic Push, Malice, Ion Bolt, Gravity Bomb, Nano-disassemblers.

Antorak, Revelation, Radiance, and Vulkoras are in the bottom rankings because they're all one-trick ponies that really only do one thing well.  The Dunov doesn't pack enough effect for an expensive capital ship, while the Kol runs out of antimatter and doesn't get the job done.  The Rapture... is actually pretty strong overall and I'm considering revising the list to put it higher (I think #7, bumping back the Jarrasul)



Not reason you can't do this at the same time as you fight battles.  If you're quick enough you can do both at once.



I'd agree with you there, but the choice still is still colony vs carrier with the expected distance to the nearest enemy as the deciding factor.



Untrue; it's harder to attack, but it's also harder to defend, and a decisive push may be impossible to reverse.

While having more room does make carrier caps less important relatively, it does not make them less necessary.  You can get away with building a colony cap(maybe) in a 2v2 or a 3v3 where there is more jumps before hitting enemy territory.  Vasari you can about guarantee will still build skirantra anyways.  I will still have to build a halcyon to keep up at some point.  Map definitely makes a difference in what you can do.  Game speed I am less sure being a factor in taking carrier caps as first but it has effects in other ways certainly. 

One of the problems with sins MP is that they are very rigid in the ways they are willing to play.  I tried hosting a game(a 5v5 that was filled) with fast resources rather than faster with everything else faster and standard settings and was basically insulted to varying degrees(Howthe? comparing me to King of Kings/Sire of all things) by some of the other skilled players in the room who left and hosted their own faster game taking all the players with them.   My reason for fast being that it makes resources slightly more sparse and less of who can throw the most units/skirantra up fastest.  That and it cuts into vasari advantage somewhat with neutrals.  The only way it doesn't end up 5v5 random single is if there aren't enough on to play that.  You can't even think of trying to play a pre-made map rather than random if you want the regulars to get in it(which is kind of sad since some of them are fun).

 

[_]-Greyfox

Heh, missed your post, Selecuceia (must have popped up while I was writing mine last night).  Another list to look at.  Yeah, we're mostly on the same page, and with two exceptions all our rankings are within 1 point of each other.

Dunov and Vulkoras are the only capital ships we disagree on by any considerable margin.

For Dunov, the problem I have is that all its abilities are in fact good, but none are outstanding, and none are fleet-support.  This gives it a very narrow role in battle, but at the same time it lacks the redeeming features of many of the lower-tier.  I have  a hard time finding a role for the fragile Dunov.

Vulkoras is basically a planet-buster and nothing else.  It does this job extremely well from level 1, and if you don't have a level 6 Jarrasul it's actually a very good investment.  If siege frigates got a buff proper, it'd be dismissable, but in the current version of the game it's the best planet bombing weapon available to any faction.  



Someone's gotta be down there.  Even if there's another mass-buffing of capital ships as in 1.18 and we get excellent balance, some capital ships will end up on the bottom rungs.  Right now, we don't have any useless capital ships in the game, which means even #15 on the list will be seen on occasion.






Yeah, I don't get the community sometimes.  Sure, I can understand preferring one setting, but there's very little that would cause me to walk out on a game (unlocked teams is all I can think of).  A little variety isn't a bad thing at all.

The two abilities I like on the Dunov are EMP and Magnetize...in the early game and mid-game, magentize can wipe out almost all of the enemy SC in one or two uses...requires micro, but is definitely well worth it because the SC are destroyed and most early SC are from Caps and get built too fast to effectively wittle down any other way...seeing how powerful and how common carriers are, putting magnetize on one of them can really take away their advantage...

I also like EMP because its area of effect...I'd prefer detonate antimatter if I was taking on just one cap or a starbase, but the EMP can affect multiple caps, and when fired in a group of carriers or support ships, can be a lifesaver...as of right now, EMP is still in my opinion the best way to deal with subverters or hoskikos, with steal antimatter on disciples a close 2nd...

As for microing abilities...all the abilities you mentioned (such as malice and ion bolt) that require microing are usually the 2nd or 3rd pick ability on those ships....except telekinetic push, which I still think works well on autocast, remember, I'm not saying manual isn't better, just that autocast works well...the abilities that work the best on autocast (best as in better on autocast than other abilities on autocast) tend to be 1st pick abilities....

I used to manually control Telekinetic push, but I've found that the autocast still works fairly well...ironically, autocast works better against human players than against AI because humans will focus fire so often their SC are tightly grouped together...I don't find it very common in MP that the Halcyon fires telekinetic push on a stray bomber right before 20 bombers come in range to do a bombing run on the halcyon, but that's just my experience, maybe for others it does...now, for multiple Halcyons, manual control is definitely better, since autocast tends to have all of them fire the ability at once, leaving gaps in time where enemy SC can wreak havoc...

This is a very micro-dependant ability, both for you and the opponent trying to counter-act it.  Between kiting and the Dunov's own fragility and I'm not as big a fan of this ability, but it is a good ability.  The problem I have is that it isn't a great ability; it needs good micro to work well, and the best-case scenario is that the enemy loses one of its capital ship features, but the capital ship itself and all its other features are still working normally.  The Dunov, which revolves around its special abilities (these are effectively its only features), needs more than this to really work well.

EMP is definitely the Dunov's best ability; again the enemy can micro to mitigate its effect, but its a bit more versatile than magnetize a generally strong ability.  The problem is that this still is only a good ability; on a capital ship whose only decent features are its special abilities, merely "good" isn't good enough.

 

Malice is an alternate pick to shield restore.  I personally prefer SR, but malice is completely viable.  You can say the same thing about the Rapture's vengeance; I usually go for vertigo/concentration and don't touch vengeance.  I personally find vertigo one of the most underrated and powerful abilities in the game, greatly cutting enemy damage output.  As for ion bolt, I usually pick that one up at level 2, and that doesn't take particularly long to do.

Anyways, I don't think micro is at all the deciding factor in these lineups; if the capital ship is more powerful, people will put forward the effort to use it and crush the enemy. 

 

Maybe it doesn't happen that often, but when it does happen that's a huge slipup, and you can't afford it on an ability with a 90 antimatter cost and a significant cooldown. 

 

thanks for all the help guys but the alt-click doesnt appear to work on ships in different gravity wells, it only selects the ones in the same well. is there any way to select all ships of the same type on the entire map, because its frustrating to manually select them

when i scroll up or down on the empire tree to add ships to my hotkey group (shift click), the scroll bar jumps back down and i have to scroll up again to select another ship. sorry if this doesnt make sense, its a little difficult to describe

also, what should i use (besides capitals) as the backbone of my fleet, i used illuminators earlier but they died pretty easily so i didnt build many ships other than capitals and some destras and defense vessels

No, though I wouldn't know why you'd want to.  If you're using the units together, they're almost certainly going to be in the same gravity well (or at very least the same control group).  I personally keep all large forces control grouped at all times for quick and easy access.

Known issue; when ships phase jump, their entries on the tree change, and this can cause the tree to jump around a bit.

Destras, illuminators, and defense vessels are all great choices as combat units.  You might also enjoy carriers.  Disciples should be used to hunt down unescourted support units (like carriers), and you should avoid using them as your backbone.

Use capital ships sparingly.  As a general rule of thumb, your capital ship crew upgrade should be less than your fleet size upgrade.