Expeariance points per kill.

very different between the races.

from Sins Forums

So... i was messing around... and i noticed... that when you kill an assailant... 6 fleet supply, you get 20 exp.

when you kill a tec LRM, you get 30 exp. 4 fleet supply.

when you kill a advent illum, you get 45 exp.

 

I am quite confuzzilled.

in, say, a firefight... the vasari player, say, he loses 60 fleet supply of assailants, and his opponent capital ship gains 200 exp... and say, that vasari manages to kill 60 fleet supply of LRMS, and HIS cap ship gains 450 exp.

this, of course made me want to look at the other ships.... and i quickly made this table.

Ship Class Faction Name    
Scout Advent Seeker Vessel 15  
Scout TEC Arcova Scout Frigate 20  
Scout Vasari Jikara Navigator 20  
Light Advent Disciple Vessel 30  
Light TEC Cobalt Light Frigate 30  
Light Vasari Ravastra Skirmisher 30  
Long Advent Illuminator Vessel 45  
Long TEC Javelis LRM Frigate 30  
Long Vasari Kanrak Assailant 20  
Antifighter Advent Defense Vessel 60  
Antifighter TEC Garda Flak Frigate 50  
Antifighter Vasari Junsurak Sentinel 60  
Carrier Advent Aeria Drone Host 100  
Carrier TEC Percheron Light Carrier 80  
Carrier Vasari Lasurak Transporter 80  
Utility0 Advent Domina Subjugator 20  
Utility0 TEC Cielo Command Cruiser 50  
Utility0 Vasari Stilakus Subverter 20  
Utility1 Advent Iconus Guardian 20  
Utility1 TEC Hoshiko Robotics Cruiser 30  
Utility1 Vasari Serevun Overseer 20  
Heavy Advent Destra Crusader 100  
Heavy TEC Kodiak Heavy Cruiser 100  
Heavy Vasari Skarovas Enforcer 100  
Fighter Advent Fighter 2.5 22.5
Fighter TEC Fighter 3.5 21
Fighter Vasari Fighter 5 20
Bomber Advent Bomber 6.5 45.5
Bomber TEC Bomber 6.5 32.5
Bomber Vasari Bomber 11 33
Colony Advent Missionary Vessel 20  
Colony TEC Protev Colony Frigate 20  
Colony Vasari Jarun Migrator 20  

perhaps one of the reasons why vasari are so loved right now... is, not only do assailants when maxed out, do devilish dps thanks to phase missles, is that, in a battle of attrition of LRMS, the vasari player will level up over twice as fast. The vasari player also has the advantage in utility cruisers, flack, and light frigs by a noticeable ammount.

perhaps another reason why advent scout spam used to be so amazing before the nerf, is that a scout kill is only 15 exp, vs 20 for the other factions... and advent scouts at that time had more DPS and more HP than the other factions scouts. 

so, any thoughts on this? I know people dont really base thier stratigies on what gives and what doesnt give the most exp for thier capital ships and thier enemy capital ships... but suddenly, when ima playing tec vs vasari, i now understand why I have 1 lv 5 capital ship, and they have 3 lv5-6 skirantras.

19,512 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Well, two possibilities...

1.  Someone made a mistake

2.  These values are handicaps for one race vs another race.

 

There was already one xp revision several patches ago, though I can't remember what changed -- some values could have reasons behind them.  The xp for Seekers might be lower because these ships can be kamikazes.  Hoshikos might be higher because the little bastards are hard to kill when travelling in packs, though certainly the Iconus seems kind of low at 20 for a ship that can take a serious beating.  Skirmisher should probably be higher compared to its equivalents, but when I last played I didn't see many people making basic assault frigs anyhow.

Nitpicking aside, I think it is pretty safe to say LRF is the only ship class where xp values are currently having a serious impact because they are the foundation of early game fleets.  Both LRM & Illuminator give 90 xp per 12 capacity.  Assailant is the odd guy out with 40xp per 12 capacity.  While baseline Assailants are really not that great for their cap cost, 20 xp is kind of low, especially considering that Carrier Caps are now stand-alone war machines whose only early game counter is LRF or other Carrier Caps.

As it stands, the Skirantra and other Vasari/Advent caps certainly are huge winners in the xp disparity.  Mind you, previous to this patch with the big Skirantra buff, I found it very hard to make headway with Vasari without relying on Starbases unless I lucked out with lots of neutrals.  I haven't played in a while, but it seems like Vasari is too tough now, and so issues like xp imbalance come to the surface where they didn't seem to make a big difference over the last couple patches.   Who knows what the next patch will bring?   =)

 

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

This issue has been discussed before.  I've known about it for over a year now, and I've never been able to come up with a good explanation as to why the assailant kicks out so little XP and the LRM kicks out so much.  Anyways, I extended your table to account for XP/command, so we can compare different unit types:

<!-- BODY,DIV,TABLE,THEAD,TBODY,TFOOT,TR,TH,TD,P { font-family:"Arial"; font-size:x-small } -->

Ship Class Faction Name XP Command XP / Command
Scout Advent Seeker Vessel 15 2 7.5
Scout TEC Arcova Scout Frigate 20 2 10
Scout Vasari Jikara Navigator 20 3

6.67
Light Advent Disciple Vessel 30 4 7.5
Light TEC Cobalt Light Frigate 30 5 6
Light Vasari Ravastra Skirmisher 30 7 4.29
Long Advent Illuminator Vessel 45 6 7.5
Long TEC Javelis LRM Frigate 30 4 7.5
Long Vasari Kanrak Assailant 20 6 3.33
Siege Advent Purge Vessel 65 12 5.42
Siege TEC Krosov Siege Frigate 65 12 5.42
Siege Vasari Karrastra Destructor 65 12 5.42
Antifighter Advent Defense Vessel 60 4 15
Antifighter TEC Garda Flak Frigate 50 4 12.5
Antifighter Vasari Junsurak Sentinel 60 5 12
Carrier Advent Aeria Drone Host 100 20 5
Carrier TEC Percheron Light Carrier 80 14 5.71
Carrier Vasari Lasurak Transporter 80 14 5.71
Utility0 Advent Domina Subjugator 20 4 5
Utility0 TEC Cielo Command Cruiser 50 6 8.33
Utility0 Vasari Stilakus Subverter 20 5 4
Utility1 Advent Iconus Guardian 20 7 2.86
Utility1 TEC Hoshiko Robotics Cruiser 30 4 7.5
Utility1 Vasari Serevun Overseer 20 7 2.86
Heavy Advent Destra Crusader 100 10 10
Heavy TEC Kodiak Heavy Cruiser 100 10 10
Heavy Vasari Skarovas Enforcer 100 12 8.33
Colony Advent Missionary Vessel 20 7 2.86
Colony TEC Protev Colony Frigate 20 6 3.33
Colony Vasari Jarun Migrator 20 6 3.33

 

 

There are a few other peculiarities.  The Advent scout for some reason gives less XP than its brethren, despite being the toughest to kill.   All the light frigates kick out the same XP despite having vastly varying costs.  The Disciple and Cobalt are within reason, but the Skirmisher kicks out nearly nothing for its size.  Of course, the Skirmisher has nothing on the assailant.  It seems the Assailant, by far, gives the least experience per command of any combat unit in the game.  In fact, it's giving about the same XP as a scout.

This is a pretty major issue; that unit should be giving out at least 30 XP, if not 40 or 45.  I don't know why it's still at 20, this issue has been brought up before, and I would like to see it corrected.

The flaks seem mostly balanced against each other, but they kick out massive amounts of XP on death relative to their size as a unit.  This is probably to do with their toughness (since they're hard to kill) but it is a little odd.

The Cielo seems to stick out like a sore thumb for support cruisers, granting 50 xp where other support cruisers are giving only 20.  I don't think this is so much a problem with the Cielo (50 XP isn't crazy high, especially for a unit you won't have many of to begin with) but rather than the other support cruisers give out next to nothing.  Maybe they should all move to 30.

 

Ship Class Faction Name XP Command XP / Command
Scout Advent Seeker Vessel 15 2 7.5
Scout TEC Arcova Scout Frigate 20 2 10
Scout Vasari Jikara Navigator 20 2 10
Light Advent Disciple Vessel 30 4 7.5
Light TEC Cobalt Light Frigate 30 5 6
Light Vasari Ravastra Skirmisher 30 7 4.29
Long Advent Illuminator Vessel 45 6 7.5
Long TEC Javelis LRM Frigate 30 4 7.5
Long Vasari Kanrak Assailant 20 6 3.33
Siege Advent Purge Vessel 65 12 5.42
Siege TEC Krosov Siege Frigate 65 12 5.42
Siege Vasari Karrastra Destructor 65 12 5.42
Antifighter Advent Defense Vessel 60 4 15
Antifighter TEC Garda Flak Frigate 50 4 12.5
Antifighter Vasari Junsurak Sentinel 60 5 12
Carrier Advent Aeria Drone Host 100 20 5
Carrier TEC Percheron Light Carrier 80 14 5.71
Carrier Vasari Lasurak Transporter 80 14 5.71
Utility0 Advent Domina Subjugator 20 4 5
Utility0 TEC Cielo Command Cruiser 50 6 8.33
Utility0 Vasari Stilakus Subverter 20 5 4
Utility1 Advent Iconus Guardian 20 7 2.86
Utility1 TEC Hoshiko Robotics Cruiser 30 4 7.5
Utility1 Vasari Serevun Overseer 20 7 2.86
Heavy Advent Destra Crusader 100 10 10
Heavy TEC Kodiak Heavy Cruiser 100 10 10
Heavy Vasari Skarovas Enforcer 100 12 8.33
Colony Advent Missionary Vessel 20 7 2.86
Colony TEC Protev Colony Frigate 20 6 3.33
Colony Vasari Jarun Migrator 20 6 3.33
Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

the illium may have been given more XP value to help counter spamming at one point.  if you were to counter illiums with cap ships then they would level up faster and give a significant advantage to the caps.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

caps, of all things dont counter illums. light armor is the only thing capital ships dont get a 100% modifyer agaisnt, and illums have 75% modifier vs cap ships... which is the same modifier bombers and HCs have.

Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top

Nice chart....did the Jikara Navigator have its command point reduced to 2?  I haven't played in a while and don't have Sins installed to check....

Anyhow, I don't think most of the imbalances are going to cause much effect except for the one on LRF.  Even if Cielo's to Guardians are really imbalanced, by the stage of game you are seeing them (if you even see them) they aren't going to have a big impact.  Still, it would be good to see it all make sense.

LRF on the other hand has a large impact, so large that I wondered if it wasn't intentional....  but with the current state of the Skirantra, Advent and Vasari hardly need to be fed xp.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

did the Jikara Navigator have its command point reduced to 2?

Typo in my spreadsheet.  So yeah, the Jikara gives the least XP among scouts, though it's not 50% stronger than the other scouts to begin with, so that's still within reason.

LRF on the other hand has a large impact, so large that I wondered if it wasn't intentional....  but with the current state of the Skirantra, Advent and Vasari hardly need to be fed xp.

I don't think that the LRM is too high, the problem is that the assailant is too low!  If you compare against heavies or light frigates, the illuminator and LRM are on par.  It's the assailant (and to a lesser extent, the skirmisher, though that unit still kinda sucks) that sticks out like a sore thumb.  An range would be 30-45 XP.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

I don't think that the LRM is too high, the problem is that the assailant is too low! If you compare against heavies or light frigates, the illuminator and LRM are on par. It's the assailant (and to a lesser extent, the skirmisher, though that unit still kinda sucks) that sticks out like a sore thumb. An range would be 30-45 XP.

I was fixating LRM a bit because they usually die in disproportionate numbers to the other LRF in practical gameplay, but I agree with you so much that I will just quote where I already said as much....

Nitpicking aside, I think it is pretty safe to say LRF is the only ship class where xp values are currently having a serious impact because they are the foundation of early game fleets. Both LRM & Illuminator give 90 xp per 12 capacity. Assailant is the odd guy out with 40xp per 12 capacity. While baseline Assailants are really not that great for their cap cost, 20 xp is kind of low, especially considering that Carrier Caps are now stand-alone war machines whose only early game counter is LRF or other Carrier Caps.